It's almost a year since the first routes were launched, and progress is being made. There have been some routes changes, with BUD, NCE, and one of the daily AMS flights cut and new routes, MUC, MXP and ACE have replaced them. Most routes are doing well, however loads on BCN and AMS routes are supposed to be very poor.
Aer Lingus' low cost base in BFS compared to the other bases is helping them to sustain routes there which may not be feasible from DUB, ORK, SNN.
EI have ruled out long-haul routes ex BFS for the next 2 years at least, due to the economic downturn. I'd expect EI to launch routes to the US, possibly JFK, BOS, MCO eventually.
Kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 11996 posts, RR: 36 Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2169 times:
Hi, 747 Forever!
You can find answers to a few of these questions on our Irish aviation threads; the load factors were mentioned a few days ago. AMS and CDG were around the 40% mark, LHR around 60% and the sun destinations, like AGP, ACE and FAO in the 70s.
I believe, without being totally certain, that there are 4 aircraft at BFS; not sure if this is being changed for Winter.
EI has ruled out long haul from BFS for the moment, due to the economic situation at the moment.
To my knowledge, no future routes have been identified, although it's too early to tell what will happen for Summer '09; I would be surprised if there were no changes.
They have, however, exceeded their target of pax numbers for the first year, but how that works out in terms of yield, I don't know.
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16598 posts, RR: 11 Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2140 times:
Quoting EI320 (Reply 1): It's almost a year since the first routes were launched,
Amazing how fast time flies by!!
Quoting EI320 (Reply 1): however loads on BCN and AMS routes are supposed to be very poor.
Hmm, BCN maybe because of the poor schedule, but why AMS?? Dont they have a code shate agreement with KLM?
Quoting EI320 (Reply 1): I'd expect EI to launch routes to the US, possibly JFK, BOS, MCO eventually.
Nonstop or via DUB??
Quoting Kaitak (Reply 2): AMS and CDG were around the 40% mark,
.
Wow, that is really poor, too poor.
Quoting Kaitak (Reply 2): no future routes have been identified, although it's too early to tell what will happen for Summer '09; I would be surprised if there were no changes.
Well lets hope they will expand to a few more destinations.
Quoting Kaitak (Reply 2): They have, however, exceeded their target of pax numbers for the first year,
That is good. But hope they dont sell the tickets too cheap to just fill up the aircafts.
Quoting Oa260 (Reply 3): Hard to believe that Wednesday will be one year since I was up in BFS checking in for the DUB-AMS flight for the inaugural of the new base.
Shamrock321 From Ireland, joined May 2008, 1547 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2140 times:
Quoting EI320 (Reply 1): Aer Lingus' low cost base in BFS compared to the other bases is helping them to sustain routes there which may not be feasible from DUB, ORK, SNN.
EI dont operate any routes from BFS which they dont operate from DUB.
EI320 From Ireland, joined Dec 2007, 1415 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2091 times:
Quoting B747forever (Reply 4): but why AMS?? Dont they have a code shate agreement with KLM?
EI had planned to codeshare with KL but it never went ahead. 2x daily BFS - AMS was doomed from the start without the codeshare.
Quoting Shamrock321 (Reply 5): EI dont operate any routes from BFS which they dont operate from DUB.
True, I phrased that badly. The lower costs in BFS may allow a particular route to be profitable which mightn't be from the other bases. An example of this would be SNN. The BFS - LHR route has the potential to be more profitable than the same route ex SNN, even though it may not perform as well, due to the lower costs.
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16598 posts, RR: 11 Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2071 times:
Quoting EI320 (Reply 6): EI had planned to codeshare with KL but it never went ahead. 2x daily BFS - AMS was doomed from the start without the codeshare.
That is pity. Do you know why it didnt go through?
Kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 11996 posts, RR: 36 Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2001 times:
I heard - and I don't know how accurate this is - that it was something to do with objections from the KLM pilots union, to having too many codeshares. This route was flown by KLM Cityhopper many years ago and I understood that they didn't like too many flights being flown by other carriers. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, because there are many routes flown by codeshare and partner carriers.
They really should have had that in place before they started it; they should stop it and only start it again when they have the c/s or interline in place.
Oa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 25122 posts, RR: 60 Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1972 times:
Quoting Kaitak (Reply 9): This route was flown by KLM Cityhopper many years ago and I understood that they didn't like too many flights being flown by other carriers. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, because there are many routes flown by codeshare and partner carriers.
I flew it once KLMUK with a Fokker 100 IIRC. Was a good service and they had a big consolidator selling tickets at decent rates. Thriftway Travel IIRC.
OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ "Η ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΨΗΛΑ" "GREECE FLYING HIGH"
BrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3812 posts, RR: 9 Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1893 times:
Quoting B747forever (Reply 4): why AMS?? Dont they have a code shate agreement with KLM?
That was the initial plan, but it never came about, IIRC.
Quoting Oa260 (Reply 7): Very true I would love to know the real story behind that and why it fell through.
I've been wondering if it had something to do with AF, or at the least WX who have operations in Belfast. You never know what their future plans might be.
Quoting Kaitak (Reply 9): They really should have had that in place before they started it; they should stop it and only start it again when they have the c/s or interline in place.
Although they do not have a codeshare in place they do have an interline agreement with KL which would cover the BFS base too.
Brian.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16598 posts, RR: 11 Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1870 times:
Well now when AMS perform so badly, and without any code share agreement with KL, do you think they will drop that route?
COEI2007 From Vanuatu, joined Jan 2007, 1912 posts, RR: 6 Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1628 times:
Quoting B747forever (Reply 12): Well now when AMS perform so badly, and without any code share agreement with KL, do you think they will drop that route?
TFS is being launched for the summer, so AMS could be dropped
Shamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4041 posts, RR: 13 Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1595 times:
Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 11): I've been wondering if it had something to do with AF, or at the least WX who have operations in Belfast. You never know what their future plans might be.
AF/WX pulled the BHD-LCY route due to poor loads. Despite extensive advertising, LCY just doesnt work from BHD as well as it works from DUB, which is a surprise, given that BHD-LCY is a domestic service..... (hurts me to say it.. but oh well..., lets not get into the politics..
IMHO, the KL / EI relationship will get more fraught over time due to a certain Dublin based Subsidiary of AF. After all, WX/AF/KL are all one family now. Perhaps it is the case that KL will continue existing codeshares with EI to DUB and ORK, but AF is unhappy for that to be expanded to cover additional routes.
[Edited 2008-12-10 11:53:10]
Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
Richcandy From France, joined Aug 2001, 697 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1445 times:
Quoting Oa260 (Reply 10): flew it once KLMUK with a Fokker 100 IIRC. Was a good service and they had a big consolidator selling tickets at decent rates. Thriftway Travel IIRC.
Hi
BFS-AMS was operated by NLM 3 days a week, then went daily and operated by KLM Cityhopper. At the very end it was operated by KLMUK and I think they tried to operate more than daily maybe twice a day.
Menary Travel in Belfast used to offer city breaks to Amsterdam useing the service, In fact my first educational (or fam trip) was with them.
Thriftway Travel had great nett fares with KLM from Belfast but the connections were not always the best. There used to be another local company call Fareline but I am not sure if they had netts with KLM.
Richcandy From France, joined Aug 2001, 697 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1443 times:
Quoting Shamrock604 (Reply 14): AF/WX pulled the BHD-LCY route due to poor loads. Despite extensive advertising, LCY just doesnt work from BHD as well as it works from DUB, which is a surprise, given that BHD-LCY is a domestic service
When I lived in London I tried a few times to use the LCY-BHD AF service, as LCY was the closest airport to home in London and BHD the closest to my mum & dads house in Belfast. However they were always expensive and I think the last flight from LCY was around 1800 which was to early.
COEI2007 From Vanuatu, joined Jan 2007, 1912 posts, RR: 6 Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1400 times:
BCN is going to a 06.30 departure for the summer, so this should help loads on BCN. AMS is dropped, and TFS is being launched, so overall things seem to be doing well ex BFS!
Shamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4041 posts, RR: 13 Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1384 times:
Quoting Richcandy (Reply 16): However they were always expensive and I think the last flight from LCY was around 1800 which was to early.
LCY generally commands higher fares than other London airports as it is seen as a premium market. But I agree, there were faults with the execution of LCY-BHD, timings being one obvious issue.
Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16598 posts, RR: 11 Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1292 times:
Quoting COEI2007 (Reply 17): BCN is going to a 06.30 departure for the summer, so this should help loads on BCN. AMS is dropped, and TFS is being launched, so overall things seem to be doing well ex BFS!
Okay, that sounds great. So AMS will after all be dropped.
Thanks for the info. I remember flying BFS-AMS when it was KLMUK so must have been near the end. I flew BFS-AMS then connected to a MP flight AMS-VRA the next day. Seems like another lifetime ago. I knew Menarys well. I had a friend who used to work in their hotel section.
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