Airbuske From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 463 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6942 times:
Quote: The Commercial Director of the African airline, Richard Nuttall, was in Brazil in late November and announced that the airline plans to operate to Sao Paulo from Nairobi in the first half of 2009. It is receiving four B777s and six B767s in the next three months. Strategic Aviation Planning represents Kenya Airways in Brazil. Stay tuned.
Abrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 4918 posts, RR: 55 Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6923 times:
Actually, Routes is one of the premier network events for airline and airport route planners. Basically, you are part of this conference and you are guaranteed 4 long-interviews and 8 short-ones (30mins/10mins) where airports sell their case for service and airlines hear it. It is a great networking opportunity and a chance for all in the industry to get together.
This is a credible source and I am surprised it took so long for the news to break. Before TK announced DKR, KQ was looking at NBO-DKR-GRU. I have no idea what connecting bank they are trying to achieve at NBO, but the KQ guys seem very keen on the routing. Also, if it does go through, expect a stopover - probably at Lagos.
Airbuske From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 463 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6908 times:
Rafabozzolla From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 1165 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6817 times:
LOS is too far out of the way. LAD is a more viable option. It's in the flight path and TAAG has had a considerable success flying to GIG, but it does not serve GRU.
BA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8267 posts, RR: 56 Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6794 times:
Quoting Airbuske (Thread starter): I have never heard of this source and I'm pretty sure KQ never had any 777s or 767s on order
- They must be talking about the existing fleet, there is no way KQ could add that many planes and implement extra services in such a short space of time.
C010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3513 posts, RR: 21 Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6593 times:
Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 3): LOS is too far out of the way. LAD is a more viable option. It's in the flight path and TAAG has had a considerable success flying to GIG, but it does not serve GRU.
Angola will never allow it. According to the bilateral, Kenyan airlines may only route their flights through ABJ, MPM, SID and LOS. Angolan airlines are not allowed to fly to GRU and that will not be changed until GRU's T3 is built. If that service takes off, it will only be possible 3x weekly. If they ever wish to increase frequencies, the bilateral will have to be renegotiated, but since all new frequencies since July 2007 are denied GRU access, they would have to either stick to the three frequencies or fly elsewhere.
AF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2082 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6321 times:
Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 4): They must be talking about the existing fleet, there is no way KQ could add that many planes and implement extra services in such a short space of time.
Agree. There is no way KQ could absorb this much capacity all at once. And in low-season? no way.
Quoting AFGMEL (Reply 7): I am really curious to know where the demand for this route will come from. Is it tourism, business or both?
Not local, but probably connecting traffic to BOM and BKK.
Swallow From Uganda, joined Jul 2007, 544 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6114 times:
Quoting Airbuske (Thread starter): It is receiving four B777s and six B767s in the next three months.
This is the existing fleet, a fact probably lost in translation. The only pending orders are the 788s. KQ has not indicated how delayed these frames are, but we are probably looking at 2012-2013 at the earliest.
Airbuske From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 463 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4659 times:
Quoting Behramjee (Reply 9): The demand for KQ's NBO-GRU route would come from 6th freedom traffic using NBO as a transit point en route to BOM/BKK/HKG/DXB/China.
Do you know what degree of freedom KQ have at LHR and CDG? It makes more sense to start a route to continental US before GRU or GIG, especially with DAL starting ATL-DKR-NBO
Airbuske From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 463 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4640 times:
Quoting Swallow (Reply 10): The only pending orders are the 788s. KQ has not indicated how delayed these frames are, but we are probably looking at 2012-2013 at the earliest.
In their stock holders report ending March 08, they expect a delay of 2-3 years so yes 2012-2013 looks likely.
Abrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 4918 posts, RR: 55 Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4625 times:
Quoting AFGMEL (Reply 7): I am really curious to know where the demand for this route will come from. Is it tourism, business or both?
Quoting AF022 (Reply 8): Not local, but probably connecting traffic to BOM and BKK.
Quoting Behramjee (Reply 9): The demand for KQ's NBO-GRU route would come from 6th freedom traffic using NBO as a transit point en route to BOM/BKK/HKG/DXB/China.
= Personally, I have no idea how they are going to make this route work. Of course, there is marginal O&D demand and this flight would work based on feed from BOM/BKK/HKG/DXB/China. However, these markets have had significant capacity increases to go to Brazil - you could fly 1-stop now via DXB and soon IST besides the traditional JNB and Europe. It will be interesting to see what KQ with a weaker hub at NBO can do.
Having said that, KQ route planners are pretty competent and perhaps they have data points that we do not know.
Norcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1280 posts, RR: 12 Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3757 times:
A little out of topic but I flew KQ yesterday AMS-NBO on their 772 and they are not as good as everyone says they althou
h the planes are ok but could use AVOD.
2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4 Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3284 times:
Quoting C010T3 (Reply 5): According to the bilateral, Kenyan airlines may only route their flights through ABJ, MPM, SID and LOS.
Among those, via MPM looks interesting, but it's not the shortest (rather say "less long") route. Specially if KQ can get some passengers from South Africa (JNB/DUR) to Brazil away from SA.
NBO-GRU via LOS is interesting too, but I would think LOS-GIG makes more sense than LOS-GRU.
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 52 Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2763 times:
Quoting AF022 (Reply 8): Not local, but probably connecting traffic to BOM and BKK.
Quoting AFGMEL (Reply 7): I am really curious to know where the demand for this route will come from. Is it tourism, business or both?
Plus KQ now operates Guangzou which has the biggest Brazilian community in China.
I also see there is demand between Brazil/Deep South America and East Africa. Although KQ hub in NBO is modest, the airline has an excellent network to East Africa such as Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda, Malawi, Rwanda, Ethiopia, Sudan, all of which with growing business ties to Brazil.
NBO-GRU will operate nonstop B767/B777 and KL (shareholder of KQ) is providing KQ with all advice on the Brazilian market operations.
Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 13): Having said that, KQ route planners are pretty competent and perhaps they have data points that we do not know
KQ management team is very competent, some of them have a lot of experience with KL. KQ and ET are the best run airlines in Africa and their financial situation is far better than SA.
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