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JFK Terminal 4 Further Expansion?  
User currently offlineContrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4064 times:

I was told by a couple of people at JFK, all in which work in different areas of the airport and all told me that there were or are plans to further expand terminal 4. Now I know and most know that even after the most resent expansion there is still need for further growth of the terminal as it tends to get mighty congested. Anyone else here of this, and if its true, how are they proposing on doing it?


Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3997 times:

There has been a lot of talk about Delta moving into T4 if/when they build a new terminal at JFK (or possibly even moving in there permanently). The expansion of T4 can be done by simply building the concourses out, and would be a relatively easy construction project.

User currently offlineContrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3975 times:

Delta moving in? Really? Thats interesting. They of course got there hands full over at 2 and 3. What a mess.


Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2888 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3965 times:

I have a friend that works for IAT, I'll see if she knows anything...haven't heard from her in a while LOL!

I haven't heard anything, but if they ARE planning on expanding it isn't a surprise. It is a nice terminal, but during your peak international times it can get crazy. Based on their website www.jfkiat.com they have a TON of airlines:
EI, AR, VV, AI, JM, TN, OZ, AV, BW, SA Czech Airlines">OK, CM, SA)">CO, MS, LY, EK, EY, GJ, 6H, SA)">B6, KL KU, LR, LA, LO, LT, SA)">GL, SA)">NA, SA)">NW, PK, RJ, SQ, SA, SY, LX, TA, JJ, HY, VX, VS, Z4.

Most of these airlines are international so they will come in and out during the international rush hours. The few domestics that they have fill the gaps in the middle, but also use rush hour times. With VX wanting to expand, that can fill in some of the gaps from SA)">NW moving in with DL, but that still leaves the international rush hours a mess. I am thinking they can only expand further out on the B concourse and get rid of some of the hard stands. But if you get rid of the hard stands, then there will be the issue of where to park planes during the down time.

This should be interesting...



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineContrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3954 times:



Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 3):
I haven't heard anything, but if they ARE planning on expanding it isn't a surprise. It is a nice terminal, but during your peak international times it can get crazy. Based on their website www.jfkiat.com they have a TON of airlines:
EI, AR, VV, AI, JM, TN, OZ, AV, BW, SA Czech Airlines">OK, CM, SA)">CO, MS, LY, EK, EY, GJ, 6H, SA)">B6, KL KU, LR, LA, LO, LT, SA)">GL, SA)">NA, SA)">NW, PK, RJ, SQ, SA, SY, LX, TA, JJ, HY, VX, VS, Z4.

Know kidding LOL. Sometimes we (Jetblue) have to dump the planes off of hard stands which you would think would be a pain but I like using the hard stands over there. The gates are are used up in the evening.



Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2888 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3921 times:



Quoting Contrails15 (Reply 4):
Know kidding LOL. Sometimes we (Jetblue) have to dump the planes off of hard stands which you would think would be a pain but I like using the hard stands over there. The gates are are used up in the evening.

Wow, some of the codes came through a little weird on my post! Anyhoo, the hard stands are a pain in the butt sometimes. There is nothing like coming off a flight from the tropics, having to walk down air stairs at JFK in 20-something degree weather and winds of 20+ mph  yuck 

Quoting Rjpieces (Reply 1):
There has been a lot of talk about Delta moving into T4 if/when they build a new terminal at JFK (or possibly even moving in there permanently).

I can't see DL going in there. They have a very large operation at JFK, I just can't see how there would be space for them. The logistics of the DL T2/3 renovation/re-model are going to be very interesting to watch. As stated in other posts on the subject, there are not many options for them to completely move out to build a new building that fits their size operation.



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineContrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3905 times:

[quote=B6JFKH81,reply=5]I can't see DL going in there. They have a very large operation at JFK, I just can't see how there would be space for them. The logistics of the DL T2/3 renovation/re-model are going to be very interesting to watch. As stated in other posts on the subject, there are not many options for them to completely move out to build a new building that fits their size operation.

I agree, they got a huge operation going on over there, between domestic, international and all the comair and Freedom flights, there gonna need ALOT of room.



Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineTristarCrazy From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3905 times:

I got to see a master plan for Delta at JFK several months ago that included rendered photographs/drawings. Best I can remember, the project is phase and includes the extension of the concourses at T4 so that DL can relocate for the demolition of T3. A new main terminal and concourse would be constructed in the area of T3 which would connect to T4. When completed, T2 would be demolished and new concourse to be built in its place that would connect to the new T3. This was a 3-4 year project with a big price tag...around 6 billion...Yes billion! The complete project was not approved by DAL management although I think they are going forward the the T4 expansion and T3 replacement.

There was also talk that DAL would buy Jet Blue outright just for their new terminal 5/6. But the cost to alter that new terminal with international arrivals and widebody jets was deemed to costly.

Will be cool to see what happens. I have a friend working on this project....see if I can get an update.



717,722,732,733,737.738,739,742,744.752,763,764,772,L10,L15,DC3,DC6,DC8,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,MD90,CV880,A310,A319,A320.A33
User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3900 times:



Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 5):
I can't see DL going in there. They have a very large operation at JFK, I just can't see how there would be space for them. The logistics of the DL T2/3 renovation/re-model are going to be very interesting to watch. As stated in other posts on the subject, there are not many options for them to completely move out to build a new building that fits their size operation.

As stated in a topic yesterday, Delta will get 6 gates in T4.



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineContrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3890 times:



Quoting TristarCrazy (Reply 7):
This was a 3-4 year project with a big price tag...around 6 billion...Yes billion! The complete project was not approved by DAL management although I think they are going forward the the T4 expansion and T3 replacement.

You gotta be kidding me. Thats nuts. If thats the case though I really don't see that project going through unless you get a number of parties in on that price tag. I never say never so who knows, maybe it'll happen but 6 billion. DAMN



Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineTristarCrazy From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3843 times:

American's new terminal at JFK total cost was 4.5 billion. The new international terminal at ATL is now at 1.6 billion and in trouble.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/stories/2008/11/10/daily101.html

Yea the cost is pretty amazing. But the terminal, if built as in the drawings I saw, was beautiful. I bet it will be scaled back. Architects go crazy with these kinda projects. Always presenting a WOW project at a WOW price!!! The owner usually brings them back down to earth.



717,722,732,733,737.738,739,742,744.752,763,764,772,L10,L15,DC3,DC6,DC8,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,MD90,CV880,A310,A319,A320.A33
User currently offlineTristarCrazy From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3803 times:



Quoting TristarCrazy (Reply 10):
The new international terminal at ATL is now at 1.6 billion and in trouble.

Also, I forgot to mention, Delta warned the ATL Department of Aviation last week that if they didn't find a way to cut $400 million from the project, they were going to pull the plug.

I am sure the same thing is going round and round on the JFK project



717,722,732,733,737.738,739,742,744.752,763,764,772,L10,L15,DC3,DC6,DC8,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,MD90,CV880,A310,A319,A320.A33
User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3699 times:



Quoting TristarCrazy (Reply 10):
Yea the cost is pretty amazing. But the terminal, if built as in the drawings I saw, was beautiful. I bet it will be scaled back. Architects go crazy with these kinda projects. Always presenting a WOW project at a WOW price!!! The owner usually brings them back down to earth.

What were the basics? Tall ceilings? Giant glass windows? What was the overall layout?



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16866 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3650 times:



Quoting TristarCrazy (Reply 10):
American's new terminal at JFK total cost was 4.5 billion

No it didn't, it cost $1.1 Billion. CO's Global Gateway project so far has been the largest expansion project of any NYC Airport facility at $1.3 Billion.

Quoting TristarCrazy (Reply 7):
I got to see a master plan for Delta at JFK several months ago that included rendered photographs/drawings.

You probably saw my thread, the renderings are in my first post:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...general_aviation/read.main/4035928

However due to the current credit crisis the on again off again DL JFK Terminal redevelopment is once again off, the Port Authority who is probably the most respected quasi Public agency in the Country can't even get any bidders for their bond offerings.

http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/1...ond-offering-shows-credit-c/print/

It seems DL is coming up with a compromise that means they will move some flights over to T-4's Western Concourse, as covered in this thread:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4240477/

-

Quote:
JFK terminals: will start branching out into Terminal 4 next year - with partners (meaning I suppose NW, KL, OK) DL will use 6 gates on the western-most concourse. Flights to use Terminal 4 will be the Middle East (CAI, TLV, AMM), Africa (DKR, LOS, ACC), PRG (because of OK), and all LAX.




Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineTristarCrazy From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3634 times:



Quoting Evan767 (Reply 12):
What were the basics? Tall ceilings? Giant glass windows? What was the overall layout?

Lots of glass...concourses like T4. Main terminal had a large arched roof line with glass from top to bottom. The new main terminal was actually to be located between the existing T3 and T4 with the new concourse replacing T3. The concourse was to follow along the road to the T2 area and, I believe, finger out again. Moving sidwalks inside to connect the expanse.

It was back in May when I saw the pics so lost some brain cells since then.



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