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Lufthansa's First Hints At Bmi's Future  
User currently offlineTFFIP From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 203 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 9037 times:

Seen this quote, the first I have found that indicates anything said or even hinted at since October announcement that LH will take BD over.

..."We can confirm that we're exploring options for the future ownership of BMI," a Lufthansa spokesman said " ...

Personally I think it wil be sold onwards.

So who would be most serious contenders be?
VS - historic interest in BD
EY - approach made late summer

Would VS block or seriously delay any BA intention?



http://www.easybourse.com/bourse-act...ring-options-for-bmi-future-576830

57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOta1 From Germany, joined Apr 2008, 398 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8971 times:
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I posted this at the other thread

Quoting Ota1 (Reply 55):
According to German newspaper "Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung" (citing LH's CEO Wolfgang Mayrhuber) LH currently is not in talks with VS but would be open for a cooperation.

Mayrhuber said LH would stil have enough capacity for further acqisitions and strategic investments. From the management's point of view they could do a lot more..

faz.net article in German only, sorry

If not keeping BD all for itself linking up with VS would be the most logical option for LH... so I guess we might see something like BD merging with VS and keeping a large stake ( maybe a majority stake) in the combined company. Maybe with a similar construction of put and call option like LH and SMB had for BD...

[Edited 2008-12-12 10:33:44]

User currently offlinePRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1128 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6865 times:

LH with BD is a smart tactic to a powerful alliance with VS and more slots at LHR. Yet, these folks are against AA/BA/IB JBA...LH is the perfect example of effective and competitive cooperation within airlines (Star). It is time for AA/BA/IB to get approved; LHR is already open too. The case against AA/BA/IB is now irrelevant.

User currently offlineCARST From Germany, joined Jul 2006, 810 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6747 times:



Quoting TFFIP (Thread starter):
Personally I think it wil be sold onwards.

So who would be most serious contenders be?
VS - historic interest in BD
EY - approach made late summer

In my opinion this is totally unrealistic. BD might be sold, but if it happens the only buyer could be VS and LH would take a 50%+1 stake in this new entity then.

LHs intention was clearly a better market share in Great Britain and the to get the LHR slots. Selling of BD without getting a majority share in the new entity wouldn't correspond with their intentions.

And who would buy a BD without their expensive and rare LHR slots?


Nevertheless i'm still convinced that they could operate BD as a standalone, profitable airline like they are operating LX and other subsidiaries. But the VS merger-deal might be the most logical step at this moment; for VS, BD and LH. Even BA would like to see that as this would give them the opportunity to merge with other airlines without having a monopoly issue at LHR.


User currently offlineWAC From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6695 times:

One has to SQ has 49% of VS and they would need to be consulted, though I'd think they wouldn t mind more consolidation btw *Alliance members.

User currently offlineCARST From Germany, joined Jul 2006, 810 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6644 times:



Quoting WAC (Reply 4):
One has to SQ has 49% of VS and they would need to be consulted, though I'd think they wouldn't mind more consolidation btw *Alliance members.

I imagine LH could buy the 49% stake from SQ, they bring in BD in the new VS and get for this increase in value some 11% from SRB giving them a 60% stake and SRB the other 40%. He could still be the PR guy for VS and would enough money regardless how much virgin companies he starts around the world...


User currently offlineTFFIP From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6599 times:

...http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/3703516/Branson-would-cut-stake-for-Bmi-deal.html :-

..."One possible scenario could see Sir Richard inject Virgin Atlantic into a new company, with Lufthansa injecting Bmi's medium-haul business. Singapore could either participate or exit.."

That would be an interesting and new possibility? Properly managed and branded it could have an excellent chance. LH know the business but makes better sense to do this than for Lufthansa to try and establish a whole new long haul presence at LHR ??


User currently offlineCityofAthens From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6519 times:

Let's hope whatever the outcome, it is in the best interests of the consumers .... and as much as they are my employers, BA needs to be kept on its toes with regards to competition at its home base.

User currently offlineLH748i From Germany, joined Sep 2007, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5305 times:

How many percent of slots do VS, BD and LH have at LHR and MAN (would be quite an amount at both, wouldn't it)? Wouldn't the sum be somehow too high in terms of cartel restrictions?

regards

frank



Lights will guide you home... next: FRA - BOG - FRA
User currently offlineSevenforty From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5304 times:

Well I think it sucks that LH can get it's hands on LHR slots over VS and BA. I don't care if it is above board. There isn't exactly a surplus of slots at LHR and British domestic routes out of the airport get the chop because of it.

User currently offlineCityofAthens From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5263 times:



Quoting Sevenforty (Reply 9):
There isn't exactly a surplus of slots at LHR and British domestic routes out of the airport get the chop because of it.

To be honest, with carriers such as Emirates, all the US airlines and European airlines offering services via their respective hubs to destinations all over the world, the argument for flying via LHR is still there, but not that strong - especially when you consider that all of the UK's main cities are already served from LHR by BA, if not BMI. Any sale/merger/whatever of BMI vis a vis VS isn't really going to change that.


User currently offlineIainbhx From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2008, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5216 times:



Quoting CityofAthens (Reply 10):
especially when you consider that all of the UK's main cities are already served from LHR by BA, if not BMI.

Up to a point. The UK's second city is not served by BA or BD - nor would I expect it to be as a route wouldn't be economic. Nor directly is the UK's fourth largest city (although MAN is close enough), nor is the sixth largest city, or the eighth or the tenth.

In fact of the four capitals of the nations of the UK, BA only serve two (London and Edinburgh) and BD additionally serve Belfast. In fact of the 25 largest cities in the UK, only 11 are served directly by BA or BD and not all have connections to LHR through BA or BD. You could make a good argument that the missing cities would be uneconomic.



iainbhx
User currently offlineSevenforty From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4820 times:

Quoting CityofAthens (Reply 7):
Let's hope whatever the outcome, it is in the best interests of the consumers .... and as much as they are my employers, BA needs to be kept on its toes with regards to competition at its home base.

Really ? Dont you think they're at enough of a disadvantage being based at LHR with all its inefficiences.

'Kept on its toes' ?? Look around at other European bases.

You amaze me. Everyone moans about LHR and then something like the Lufthansa BMI deal occurs and all those slots are in the hands of a body that may not have the interests of the British flying public at the top of its list.. I mean who knows how long it's going to be before they get a 3rd runway at LHR.

'Sir' Michael Bishop should be ashamed.

  

[Edited 2008-12-14 00:06:03]

[Edited 2008-12-14 00:23:52]

User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8539 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4713 times:
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Quoting Sevenforty (Reply 12):
You amaze me. Everyone moans about LHR and then something like the Lufthansa BMI deal occurs and all those slots are in the hands of a body that may not have the interests of the British flying public at the top of its list

that makes it sound like you think that BA has the interests of the British flying public at the top of its list ? hopefully , like any business should , BA has the interests of its shareholders at the top of its list

Quoting Sevenforty (Reply 12):
Sir Michael Bishop should be ashamed.

why? for being a shrewd businessman and recognising a good deal ?



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineSevenforty From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 4568 times:



Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 13):
why? for being a shrewd businessman and recognising a good deal ?

I know what you mean but it is all a bit hypocritical.

VS is full of it. Jumping into bed with LH. An airline that has benefited from a distinct lack of the beloved VS home grown competition theory and an airline that is turning itself into the very thing that VS despises. It rather undermines any objectives VS has to British Airways' plans.

If it wasn't so pathetic it would be funny.

The bottom line is that at the first sign of real trouble all the peoples champion crap has gone out the window. VS has laid on its back with its legs in the air. Whatever you do LH, make sure you where a rubber !!

SQ didn't.


 blush 


User currently offlineAdicool From Netherlands, joined Apr 2007, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 4547 times:



Quoting Sevenforty (Reply 14):
The bottom line is that at the first sign of real trouble all the peoples champion crap has gone out the window. VS has laid on its back with its legs in the air. Whatever you do LH, make sure you where a rubber !!

SQ didn't.

hahahahaha
really funny comment, and oh so true!
Safety first, LH!


User currently offlineWAC From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4387 times:



Quoting Sevenforty (Reply 12):
Everyone moans about LHR and then something like the Lufthansa BMI deal occurs and all those slots are in the hands of a body that may not have the interests of the British flying public at the top of its list..

And BA does??? they have withdrawn from so many regional airports especialy the likes of MAN, EDI, GLA....Britain does not mean LHR or london or the south east. AF/KL serve the british interests far better than BA does not to mention FR...
As for LH plans for BD and the British interests...well we can only speculate, but if they do the smae good job as with LX then I would think they do a good job at serving the British interest.


User currently offlineSevenforty From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4146 times:



Quoting WAC (Reply 16):
And BA does??? they have withdrawn from so many regional airports especialy the likes of MAN, EDI, GLA....Britain does not mean LHR or london or the south east. AF/KL serve the british interests far better than BA does not to mention FR...

Well that was my point and there is alot more healthy competition in the UK than there is in France or Germany. AF/KL benefit from their merger and ATI agreements. Something BA are in the process of fighting tooth and nail for.

They havn't withdrawn from MAN, EDI and GLA.

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 13):
that makes it sound like you think that BA has the interests of the British flying public at the top of its list ? hopefully , like any business should , BA has the interests of its shareholders at the top of its list

Of it course it has. That's why it has to use the slots where the money is and ref WACs comments risk being seen as only interested in London.


User currently offlineSevenforty From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4111 times:



Quoting Adicool (Reply 15):
Quoting Sevenforty (Reply 14):
The bottom line is that at the first sign of real trouble all the peoples champion crap has gone out the window. VS has laid on its back with its legs in the air. Whatever you do LH, make sure you where a rubber !!

SQ didn't.


hahahahaha
really funny comment, and oh so true!
Safety first, LH!

Well you know what I mean ! Was a bit of a saucy metaphor but served its purpose.

(sorry about my grammar - meant wear a rubber, not where a rubber.)


User currently offlineWAC From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4035 times:



Quoting Sevenforty (Reply 17):
They havn't withdrawn from MAN, EDI and GLA.

so you are saying a withdrawal of all routes from MAN, BHX and othe regional airports is not a withdrawal...BA is closing their cabin crew base in GLA, which I believe is the last crew base in the UK outside the London airports?? code sharing with BE is a joke. BA should be re-branded to London Air or South-East England Air...it does not serve Britain let alone England
AF and KL operated a lot of their UK regional services way before they merged...
To give into due to competition in your own backyard is surrendering your flag carrier status, so that why I think BA is neither British Airways nor the flag carrier of the UK.
Anway back to the point LH UK/BD will serve the UK and at the moment serve the UK far better than BA. In fact i would say *alliance is the flag carrier of the UK.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8273 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3982 times:
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Quoting WAC (Reply 19):
so you are saying a withdrawal of all routes from MAN, BHX and othe regional airports is not a withdrawal...BA is closing their cabin crew base in GLA, which I believe is the last crew base in the UK outside the London airports?? code sharing with BE is a joke. BA should be re-branded to London Air or South-East England Air...it does not serve Britain let alone England

Spain, France and Italy don't have more then one hub even if there is demand for two. Barcelona, Milan and another French city have always played second to MAD, FCO and CDG. Rome is the wrong hub for Italy, too far south.


User currently offlineWAC From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3955 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 20):

Spain, France and Italy don't have more then one hub even if there is demand for two. Barcelona, Milan and another French city have always played second to MAD, FCO and CDG. Rome is the wrong hub for Italy, too far south.

Yes ok but IB, AF, and even the ludicrous AZ have operations in the regions and have an extensive regional network connecting secondary and other focus cities with Europe and beyond. BA gave that up after selling BA connect. BA only serves UK cities now MAN, NCL,
EDI, GLA, ABZ (there might a few more but not with high freq.) with LHR and/or LGW and/or LCY (with their own metal).


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3941 times:



Quoting Sevenforty (Reply 9):
Well I think it sucks that LH can get it's hands on LHR slots over VS and BA. I don't care if it is above board. There isn't exactly a surplus of slots at LHR and British domestic routes out of the airport get the chop because of it.

I find this a somewhat strange viewpoint. British domestic routes being cut have nothing whatever to do with LH......that is entirely the decision of BA. Indeed, and on the contrary, it certainly says something significant that LH (codeshare with BD) and EI (connects two capital cities of the United Kingdom when the so-called 'national carrier' can't be bothered to!! These are both foreign carriers and it runs contrary to your argument.

Quoting Sevenforty (Reply 12):
Everyone moans about LHR and then something like the Lufthansa BMI deal occurs and all those slots are in the hands of a body that may not have the interests of the British flying public at the top of its list..

Sorry, but are you trying to tell me that BA, in the disguise of the 'national carrier' have the "interests of the British flying public at the top of it's list"???? Absolutely not, and never have done!
Whilst for whatever reason you might disagree, I'll certainly applaud and fully support any carrier who choose to do what the UK 'national' carrier claims it can't!! (but truth be "won't").

Quoting Sevenforty (Reply 12):
'Sir' Michael Bishop should be ashamed.

Ashamed of what?


User currently offlineWAC From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3928 times:



Quoting AirNZ (Reply 22):
I find this a somewhat strange viewpoint. British domestic routes being cut have nothing whatever to do with LH......that is entirely the decision of BA. Indeed, and on the contrary, it certainly says something significant that LH (codeshare with BD) and EI (connects two capital cities of the United Kingdom when the so-called 'national carrier' can't be bothered to!! These are both foreign carriers and it runs contrary to your argument.

Here here. BA serves only the south east of England interest and not of the UK/Britain. Hell the BA should set up LNP (London National Party) Alex Salmond would help them set it up


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7081 posts, RR: 57
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3884 times:



Quoting WAC (Reply 23):
Here here. BA serves only the south east of England interest and not of the UK/Britain. Hell the BA should set up LNP (London National Party) Alex Salmond would help them set it up

Get a life. I dont hear you demanding Lufthansa be renamed Air West Germany, Air France as Air Paris, KLM as Amsterdam airlines, Iberia as Air Madrid, etc...

British Midland have no long haul outside of london
BA have no long haul outside of london
Virgin only fly leisure routes outside of london

All three have tried multiple international services from the regions, and failed.
Bmi stops in January,
BA stopped late this summer.

Of the European majors:

AF have no regional long haul
KL have no regional long haul
IB have no regional long haul
LX have no regional long haul
AZ have basically closed MXP
LH have a dual hub strategy (FRA and MUC)



The world is really getting smaller these days
25 Iainbhx : I don't think that anyone is realistically arguing, especially with the advent of FR, that BA should operate a second hub or a focus city outside of
26 Sevenforty : I didn't say it did. I'm just saying that LHR is running at 100% capacity and is strategically very important to the UK and its economy. I don't thin
27 Post contains links WAC : At leat AF has this http://corporate.airfrance.com/en/st...k-and-hubs/the-lyon-hub/index.html At least IB flies several European cities from Barcelon
28 Adicool : I'm sorry, but this is complete BS. I mean, BA is sometimes referred to as London Airways because there are hardly (if not any) domestic routes, link
29 Sevenforty : Well that's just Britain, look at the trains !! BA has always concentrated more on intercontinental routes (all be it from London yes) but it does li
30 CityofAthens : The thread is starting to go off-topic guys ... some points being made are reasonable, I think others are not. Shall we get back to what LH intends to
31 TFFIP : ...does SRB's proposition of injecting VS into (a new?) venture + LH adding BMI carry any real possibility?
32 BrianDromey : Eh, check your facts. BA codeshares on the EI LHR-BFS services, so by your reckoning connects two capital cities of the United Kingdom in just the sa
33 WAC : Make it the REAL British flag carrier! but now am being cheeky. If I was old Herr Mayhruber. 1. Either take over VS or joint venture with them. 2. Se
34 CityofAthens : Let me make it clear that I am no expert in the field of business or its regulation by various authorities but I am more or less in agreement with you
35 Flyglobal : It seems a bit nationalistic and no reason why it should be. As well BA and LH will do entirely the same with the slots: Use them best for profitable
36 BestWestern : BMI has (is) also abandoning the UK regions. Why arent you calling for BMI to be renamed LWI - West London i. Virgin has a token presence anywhere nor
37 Sevenforty : Sounds interesting, good luck !! Roll on the BA/AA alliance, QF/IB/BA merger.
38 WAC : By any chance is your first name Willie and your surname Walsh?
39 BestWestern : By any chance is your name Donald Duck?
40 Theginge : And Korean Air have massive international networks from anywhere other than Seoul?? (And I mean more than just serving regional (China / Japan) desti
41 WAC : hey that s my dad s name!! wow it s true about the Irish! they do truly have magical powers! Am not requesting BA to fly longhaul...I just want them
42 AirNZ : With respect, I don't exactly need to check my facts. You are technically correct yes, but this codeshare has been in the past 11 months only, since
43 Sevenforty : Actually that wouldn't surprise me in the least. Germany has always been obsessed with Britain. I suppose it's flattering. At least some Germans migh
44 Sevenforty : I said that in the past domestic routes from LHR have had to be cut to make way for more profitable long-haul routes due to lack of slot availability
45 WAC : There is no EU law or organisation that stipulates the allocation of airport slots. LHR slots are allocarted in very hap hazard way by BAA/CAA. EU la
46 Antonovman : That is all you ever do on this site We've all heard it before, over and over again Get a life and give us all some peace from your whining
47 PurpleBox : What good is Flybe to BA? They don't operate a single flight into LHR so they will generate no regional feed. PurpleBox.
48 Adicool : Well, gotta say: WTF? Since when are we Germans obsessed with Britain? It might as well be the other way around... nowhere else in Europe is the hatr
49 Sevenforty : Hi - sorry didn't mean to offend. WAC was really winding me up. The war hadn't even entered my mind.
50 WAC : WAC= Winding up A.netters Constantly.
51 SandroZRH : Why would they fly to Bern? The journey time from ZRH to Bern is about the same as LHR-LCY. Why does BA not fly from LCY to LHR? What LX does is code
52 Timboflier215 : Jeez guys, calm down! Can I just clarify a point - are EU carriers now able to take controlling stakes in each other, even though they are from differ
53 VinnieWinnie : And lose money competing with the likes of Ryanair, Easyjet, Bmi baby, flybe... They tried it and failed. Remember Ba connect or whatever its name wa
54 WAC : Quoting BestWestern (Reply 36): Do Swiss even fly to Bern? Their Geneva hub is a shadow of prior times. How dare they focus mainly on Zurich at not ev
55 Veeseeten : Goodness me, how pathetic that in a thread about LH 's plans for BMI it still comes back to the insanely boring 'London Airways' debate...Is it so har
56 Kiwiandrew : I think that you are correct , they can only be 49 % foreign ( ie non-EU owned ) although on some routes this will depend on the bilateral in place ,
57 EI787 : This thread has gone off-topic. Thread Locked. EI787.
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