Plairbus From Germany, joined Feb 2008, 311 posts, RR: 0 Posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9544 times:
I am here at home and just writing done wich could be the next orders for Airbus from big airlines, and know arriving in the United States my predicton is very sad for Airbus...
NW after the fusion with DL is not going to order more Airbus widebody. CO after they order the 787 and a few more 777 is done too. AA i do not think and possibility for Airbus there in the next 25 years. UA, I do not know I mean they could use the 330 and 350 very well but the 777 is working also well for them and why should they change the fleet for a european product when they can have a similar product from the USA. So only USAirways will be a loyal Airbus coustomer and it looks like they will be in lets say 5 to 8 years a 90% Airbus fleet.
The only airlines that perhaps and I am saying only perhaps will buy Airbus a mix of 330 and 350 or only 350 is UA, but only if they can have them for a very good price but I think Boeing will not let them go. So what do you think?
Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9497 times:
I can't speak for other airlines, but we at CO can answer that: NEVER. We have an outstanding relationship with Boeing, and I think they're excellent planes. And they've served us well. Why fix what ain't broken?
Plairbus From Germany, joined Feb 2008, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9481 times:
I also think that CO is not buying Airbus soon, I will not say never but for sure not in the next years.
Perhaps one day Airbus making a good offer but no, it is far away.
My only bet would be perhaps UA.
United1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 7074 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9385 times:
AA =I don't think you will see AA order Airbus any time soon as I recall they are still in a bit of a spat with them over the A300 crash in NY.
DL/NW = I think DL is going to be evaluating the 737 and 320 fleet that they operate and at some point make a decision based off that on acquiring the 737NG or 320NG but that is years off at the earliest. The only hope I think Airbus has near term is DL falling in love with NWs 332s and DL placing a small follow on order.
CO = With all the Boeing's that CO has on order right now probably not, Airbuses best chance of selling something to CO would be the 320NG when that comes on line years from now.
UA = Maybe an order for the 380 and/or 350/332 at some point but I have to say that I think this is Boeing's order (748, 777, 787) order to loose. Airbus does have a decent chance with the 320NG to replace the 757 and early 320/319 fleet.
US = Probably the only reasonably locked in Airbus customer as far as the legacies go.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
Manni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9063 times:
US; When Airbus offers the right product at the right price within the right timeframe.
UA; When Airbus offers the right product at the right price within the right timeframe.
DL; When Airbus offers the right product at the right price within the right timeframe.
AA; When Airbus offers the right product at the right price within the right timeframe.
CO; See US, UA, DL and AA.
Before someome asks, I 've never purchased an aircraft nor am I a member of any airlines 'aircraft purchasing board'. However, common sense tells me that there's no money for sentiment when purchasing aircraft. Hawaiian did take may of us by surprise, didn't they? Who are we to be surprised by what aircraft an airline purchases when not made privy to the tender.
CPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6534 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9041 times:
As far as I know, AA, CO & DL (so that presumably also means NW) are all honoring the agreement they made with Boeing back in the day, so I guess it will be a cold day in hell before any of those order Airbiis.
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7217 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9003 times:
I think it is hard to say right now, I would never say never as times change.
But if you look at the airlines right now and see their fleets and what aircraft they already have on order things for Airbus widebodies do look grim:
AA: has 787 on order, doubtful that they will order A350s or A330s. A320NGs might have a chance given the huge number of MD80s that need to be replaced and it would be hard for Boeing to deliver 300+ 737NGs to replace them.
CO: 787 on order as well as brand new 737NGs arriving replacing older 737 classics no chance for Airbus to score here.
DL: A350, A330 could have a chance as well as A320 and A320NG
UA: Would not rule out the A350 completely
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 8139 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8792 times:
Quoting CALMSP (Reply 12): CO/DL both have a gentlemen agreements with Boeing for Boeing aircraft only.
Quoting Columba (Reply 13): A verbal contract is only worth the paper it is written on............stop with that gentlemen´s agreement, this is the business world and there are no gentlemen in it.
The gentlemen agreement is a moot point these days.
Nevermind there have been significant leadership changes at DL since that time. Anderson and others have publicly stated they are interested in future Airbus orders. Obviously they are going to play each and all manufacturers to get the best deal possible for the right aircraft to suit their needs.
NW/DL, and Anderson specfically are in love with the A330's.
Also, as part of the merger, DL gained NW's ~6 on-order, indefinetely deffered A319/A320's. DL has no immediate need for anymore of these aircraft, but the deposit could be applied to something else in the future.
I said few weeks ago that AA was under negotiations with Airbus for A330. Airbus is still working hard to put something together for AA, they are interested but apparently the big issue they have is the wingspan of the A330 which is 16.5 meters more or less bigger than the A300. They went to Toulouse and were very satisfied with the capabailities of the A330. I know that there are many peoples that believe that they will use the 767 in routes where the A300 was flown, however they always forget the big difference in cargo capacity and that is a huge factor for AA when we talk about Latin America, apart of the better performance the A330 has over the 767.
My personal filing is that they could order the A330 if Boeing keeps pushing back the 787 EIS, which is today more than 2 years behind of schedule. The A350 is not an option since AA will keep the 777 for many more years. However if they decide to go ahead with the A330 then the A350 will have an opportunity, once they discover the better performance that the A330 has over the 777-200 they could start looking at the A350 with different eyes.
Well at some point they have to replace their fleet. If Airbus has a better offer (e.g. 200 GTF A319NG's to replace MD80s) do you think AA will draw a line. Not what they told me.
Quoting Plairbus (Thread starter): perhaps will buy Airbus a mix of 330 and 350 or only 350 is UA, but only if they can have them for a very good price but I think Boeing will not let them go.
Will UA down scale / reduce market share on Pacific flights when the 747 fleet gets even older? Or slam the door when Airbus offers them excellent financing on 25 A350-1000's ?
Quoting CPH-R (Reply 10): As far as I know, AA, CO & DL (so that presumably also means NW) are all honoring the agreement they made with Boeing back in the day, so I guess it will be a cold day in hell before any of those order Airbiis.
I sense a lot of hope here, maybe quality & price aint everything. However Bethune (ex Boeing, 757-300, 767-400ER, 737-900 (non ER), 767-200ER (new cabin/cockpit) ) is gone and I see different quotes.
For the younger members. Airbus has grabbed more the 50% of the market during the last 15-20 yrs. very often "unexpected" shifts from loyal Boeing customers.
Quoting United1 (Reply 5): DL/NW = I think DL is going to be evaluating the 737 and 320 fleet that they operate and at some point make a decision based off that on acquiring the 737NG or 320NG but that is years off at the earliest. The only hope I think Airbus has near term is DL falling in love with NWs 332s and DL placing a small follow on order.
I think this is possible
Quoting United Airline (Reply 7): A 380 for UA eventually???? But I think they will go for the B 747-8 instead
UA doesn't have money to buy wide bodies instantly. Personally, I hope for the 748. I think it would be a good boost to the program. The key would be deployment -- like with anything. I think it would depend which UA bases have the facility to accept an A380 and could they fill the plane profitably.
Quoting Carls (Reply 18): NW had an strong relationship with Airbus, and that relationship won't change because the merge with DL.
I think DL is now in charge of ordering.
That said, I did recently ride an AF A330, and prefered it to the 767. I think DL may well consider the A330 as a 767 replacment. But I think the 787 will will out over the A350.
Carls From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8488 times:
Quoting Davescj (Reply 20): I think DL is now in charge of ordering.
That said, I did recently ride an AF A330, and prefered it to the 767.
Well, that is not what I have heard. Orders will be decided by coordinated team integrated by NW/DL Technicians and Financial Directors.
That is why the A330 kill the 767 and force Boeing to close the FAL, until the 787 fiasco pushed them to reopen it to cope with the compensation they are giving to customers that ordered the 787 and are needing something meantime.
SeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7308 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8480 times:
Quoting Carls (Reply 18): once they discover the better performance that the A330 has over the 777-200 they could start looking at the A350 with different eyes.
AA flies 777-200ERs, not 777-200s. The A330-300 and 777-200ER are not comparable products, as the Boeing is a much heavier plane with much greater payload-range capability, all of which AA uses on its longer routes.
In the unlikely event that AA orders A330s, they'll be A330-200s. And if there are no further 787 delays, there is no reason for AA to substitute A330-200s for similarly sized, more flexible 787-8s.
SeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7308 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8476 times:
Quoting Carls (Reply 22): That is why the A330 kill the 767 and force Boeing to close the FAL, until the 787 fiasco pushed them to reopen it to cope with the compensation they are giving to customers that ordered the 787 and are needing something meantime.
Boeing never closed the 767 line. It has been continuously open since 1982, and the 767 has continually attracted small follow-up orders from existing operators in recent years, as well as a large freighter order from UPS.
Your broader point that the A330 outcompeted the 767 is correct, but your facts are not.
: A better question is whether US carriers will be tempted by the Bombardier CSeries which promises to have a much earlier EIS than any significantly im
: Never say never. Just because the current management is completely pro-Boeing doesn't mean that will still be the case 10 years from now. I don't see
: I think UA is your only real chance of seeing an Airbus order. DL/NW will remain with Boeing, probably going with the 77W to replace the 744s (plus th
: DL is going to consider both aircraft... NW has had great results with their Airbus's though I will say that Airbus should have been named something
: Just because DL bought out NW doesn't mean that DL is now forced to buy from Airbus. As stated in a previous post, Boeing is a part shareholder in Del
: Can somebody confirm that AA is talking to Airbus for buying 330?
: Mate you are free to belive it or not. That doesn't change anything. Now the question is, was Airbust the one puting the responsability over AA or NT
: You are right and I missexpress my self. What I try to say was the sales of the 767 not the FAL. Now the 767 is not attaracting new customer nor new
: Why he knows. AA and Airbuses future is grim, AMR's pilots prefer that when they apply rudder pressure they would like the tail to stay attached to t
: They were at Toulouse one month ago and they were there looking not only the A330 but the A350 also. They are looking to replace A300 for Latin Ameri
: Its not just about the initial numbers, but also about post-purchase support. If AA thinks that god forbid another accident happens with an AA pilot
: Agreed! In most cases, I completely agree with you. However, due to the very order you bring up, this is not always the case. Although HA had a stron
: No myth its very real! This is the future of Airbus at AMR.
: I thought I clarified this sufficient. quote=Hamlet69,reply=36] Wrong. AA flies the 777-200ER, a much more capable aircraft than the A330. After the
: Based in what everybody has been saying here about the problems between AA and Airbus, should I assume that all the accidents that AA has had were Boe
: A little quiz for you. The number of Airbus aircraft delivered in North America is close to: a. 20 b. 200 c. 2000
: Airbus blaming the pilot for stepping too hard on the rudder pedal is about the most absurd thing I have ever read, it was an insult to any pilot. An