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A320 Aviation Partners Winglets Ready To Go!  
User currently offlineR2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2771 posts, RR: 1
Posted (6 years 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 18846 times:

A320 MSN1 has come out of hiding here in TLS today sporting some very fancy winglets designed by Aviation Partners - so flight tests should begin any moment now. I guess photos will start being online in the coming days; in the meantime all I can say is that they're very much 737-style and size, and perhaps slightly raked at the end.

Airbus is giving winglets a second try after the disappointing results from the 2006 campaign, where the meager aerodynamic efficiencies gained were outweighed by the weight of the strengthening required. Back then Airbus tested an in-house design as well as one from Winglet Technology of the USA. For reference, these are the two designs tested back then:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © French Frogs Aviation Pictures



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © French Frogs Aviation Pictures


Airbus must've said something like "if it doesn't work, then make it work", and this time around, they are testing a new design from Aviation Partners. If only by the looks, these seem to be more promising... Furthermore, since then Airbus has developed new loads alleviation laws and is undertaking continuous weight reduction efforts: this could reduce the amount of strengthening required.

Let's see what results the flight test campaign yields... will we be seeing blended-winglet A320s one day, or will we see a repetition of the disappointing results from the previous campaign?

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3398 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 18699 times:



Quoting R2rho (Thread starter):
will we see a repetition of the disappointing results from the previous campaign?

If Aviation Partners cannot do it, who can? IIRC the target for the earlier designs was -3% fuel consumption.


User currently offlineVirgin747LGW From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2007, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 18609 times:

cant wait for the first pic

have a feeling we ll be seeing plenty more A320s with AP winglets in the future


User currently offlineDeaphen From India, joined Jul 2005, 1428 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 18561 times:

NOOOOOO God please dont mess with the beautiful wing fences on the 320!!! Ahhhhh! Its a big no no!!

Hmmm i guess im the only one who thinks winglets (Blended, not the ones on the 330,340,747) make the aircraft look stupid!

I guess money talks!

Nitin



I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
User currently offlineLrdc9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 18180 times:



Quoting Deaphen (Reply 3):
Hmmm i guess im the only one who thinks winglets (Blended, not the ones on the 330,340,747) make the aircraft look stupid!

You're not the only one. Though 737 winglets have grown on me. Of course I also don't understand why people love the concord so muchh. As far as I am concerned it was ugly and a poorly thought out concept.  duck 



Just say NO to scabs.
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7564 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 18165 times:



Quoting Deaphen (Reply 3):
Hmmm i guess im the only one who thinks winglets (Blended, not the ones on the 330,340,747) make the aircraft look stupid!

I agree, except I think they look good on the 737 and 757

As for the first two designs, those look horrible. But its not about looks.....



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineTime2lyme From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Oct 2008, 46 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 17606 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 5):

Believe it or not it is about looks, as well as other things. As a designer, a general rule of thumb is that having designed something, if it "looks right", it usually is. Nature and aesthetics go hand in hand. Design something aesthetically unpleasing and it often doesn't work.


User currently offlineNW7E7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 534 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 17372 times:



Quoting Deaphen (Reply 3):
NOOOOOO God please dont mess with the beautiful wing fences on the 320!!! Ahhhhh! Its a big no no!!

I love the wing fences on the A320 series! IMO blended winglets look awesome on 737NGs followed by 757s. Blended winglets on the 767 are going to look a bit odd with a wide fuselage.


User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1906 posts, RR: 27
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 15533 times:

One question,

Isn't Aviation Partners involved with Boeing in its ownership?

Thanks



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlineBrightCedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1290 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 15390 times:



Quoting Deaphen (Reply 3):
Hmmm i guess im the only one who thinks winglets (Blended, not the ones on the 330,340,747) make the aircraft look stupid!

You're not alone, I'm there with you pal.



I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9229 posts, RR: 76
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 15286 times:



Quoting 797 (Reply 8):
Isn't Aviation Partners involved with Boeing in its ownership?

Not Aviation Partners Inc, Aviation Partners Boeing (APB) is a joint venture of Aviation Partners Inc and Boeing.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21854 posts, RR: 55
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 15237 times:



Quoting 797 (Reply 8):
Isn't Aviation Partners involved with Boeing in its ownership?

No. Aviation Partners is its own company. You're probably thinking of Aviation Partners Boeing, which is a joint venture with Boeing that makes winglets for the 737/757/767.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 15138 times:

April 06 I played with a A320 enhanced idea that had winglets, higher BPR engines, new cabin and a fuselage lenght inbetween A320 and A321. Airbus launched A320 Enhanced a few months later. Maybe the winglets will look like Henry Lam sketched them (long & lean) afterall..

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00007055.jpg
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/2724857/


User currently offlineRbgso From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 599 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 15091 times:



Quoting Deaphen (Reply 3):
Hmmm i guess im the only one who thinks winglets (Blended, not the ones on the 330,340,747) make the aircraft look stupid!

IMHO there is no aircraft more attractive than a 757 with winglets......


User currently offlineDeaphen From India, joined Jul 2005, 1428 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 14449 times:



Quoting Keesje (Reply 12):
April 06 I played with a A320 enhanced idea that had winglets, higher BPR engines, new cabin and a fuselage lenght inbetween A320 and A321. Airbus launched A320 Enhanced a few months later. Maybe the winglets will look like Henry Lam sketched them (long & lean) afterall..

Oh interesting! That background sky pic is mine!

I remember! That was a stunning conception.

Nitin



I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 14328 times:



Quoting Virgin747LGW (Reply 2):
have a feeling we ll be seeing plenty more A320s with AP winglets in the future

I think so. Now, they SHOULD be able to do the likes of JFK-SEA/LAX/SFO, etc., without fighting. We all know that the 75 does it with ease  Wink .

Quoting Rbgso (Reply 13):
IMHO there is no aircraft more attractive than a 757 with winglets......

True that!  checkmark 



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineR2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2771 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 13826 times:



Quoting Art (Reply 1):
If Aviation Partners cannot do it, who can? IIRC the target for the earlier designs was -3% fuel consumption.

I think that if it doesn't work this time around they'll drop the idea for good, there's no point in insisting on it. Contrary to common a.net belief, blended winglets are not inherently good for all aircraft, some wing designs lend themselves well to them (737, 757), others don't (A320 at least until now...) but are not less efficient because of that (the 777 is hardly an inefficient aircraft, yet has no winglets). So the question here is: will the aerodynamic efficiency gains be large enough and the structural reinforcements small enough that a good business case can be made for these winglets? The next weeks will tell...

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
No. Aviation Partners is its own company. You're probably thinking of Aviation Partners Boeing, which is a joint venture with Boeing that makes winglets for the 737/757/767.

Either way, who guarantees there is no transfer of know-how...?  Wink


User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 858 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 13756 times:

I read in Flygrevyn that Airbus gonna make A320 HGW (1 ton heavier) and fly 300 km further

*Love the winglets on JetBlue A320*

//Micke  Big grin



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 13621 times:



Quoting R2rho (Reply 16):
the 777 is hardly an inefficient aircraft, yet has no winglets

The B77W/B77L and B764 have raked wingtips, which are apparently an evolution of the conventional winglets...



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlineMBJ2000 From Germany, joined Dec 2005, 426 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 13541 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 15):
Quoting Rbgso (Reply 13):
IMHO there is no aircraft more attractive than a 757 with winglets......

True that! checkmark

Sorry, I must disagree!  
The A321 is in my opinion the best looking aircraft in its proportions... With real winglets who knows maybe even better...

[Edited 2008-12-16 12:21:56]


Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending -- Bender Unit 22
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 13357 times:



Quoting R2rho (Reply 16):
Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
No. Aviation Partners is its own company. You're probably thinking of Aviation Partners Boeing, which is a joint venture with Boeing that makes winglets for the 737/757/767.

Either way, who guarantees there is no transfer of know-how...?

APB is a JV...one can pretty safety assume they're using a non-compete and proprietary agreements to prevent the flow of sensitive data in either direction. It's no different than any of the bazillions of suppliers that make parts for both Airbus and Boeing (and Bombardier and Embraer and...).

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 18):
The B77W/B77L and B764 have raked wingtips, which are apparently an evolution of the conventional winglets...

They're not really an evolution, they're for a different application. If you're span restricted, winglets are the better option. If you've got room, and your wing has enough margin, raked tips offer better performance than winglets.

Tom.


User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 13288 times:

Aren't the current little fence jobbers on the end of A320 wings technically winglets?  Wink IIRC, the A320-100 series didn't have them and they were added to the -200 series...

I wonder if structural strengthening will be required for the Aviation Partners winglets, too...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 13008 times:

This must be a big prize in aftermarket aviation, upgrade on the A320. Any guesstimate how much these upgrades will cost?

User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12807 times:



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 21):
Aren't the current little fence jobbers on the end of A320 wings technically winglets?

Not really. The line is kind of blurry in specific cases, but the thing on the end of an A320 wing is a lot closer to being a wing fence than a winglet, and those are two different aerodynamic tricks (although both done with the same goal in mind).

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 21):
I wonder if structural strengthening will be required for the Aviation Partners winglets, too...

Depends on how much margin was left in the wing to start with. A lot of prior posts have suggested the A320 wing has nearly zero margin, so any significant benefit may require strengthening.

Tom.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12414 times:



Quoting Deaphen (Reply 3):

NOOOOOO God please dont mess with the beautiful wing fences on the 320!!! Ahhhhh! Its a big no no!!

Its all about economics nitin,not looks  Smile
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
25 Post contains links Hloutweg : The new winglets have a particular design rake at the tip. Jon Ostrower has the pictures here: http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...irbus-a320-flies
26 Teme82 : i must say that I like the shape of the winglet... But I think that it don't look good on A320.... just my two cents ...
27 Virgin747LGW : it looks great from the front and behind but side on it makes the A320 look tiny!
28 Lightsaber : I'd love to see the CFD showing to rake them out at the tip... My estimate would be to go counter-vortex and rake in... but that might just create se
29 R2rho : Correct. I wasn't trying to claim otherwise. There are different types of wingtip devices, blended winglets are one of them, and so are raked wingtip
30 Ikramerica : As explained above, they are a variation on a theme, not an evolution. All of them (fences, angled winglets, raked wingtips, blended winglets, etc.)
31 Tdscanuck : The complete vortex hasn't really formed at the tip...it takes about half a wing span for the vortex sheet to roll up into the fully formed vortex. I
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