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DL JFK-TLV #2 Postponed  
User currently offlineMech24 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 61 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4578 times:

Delta's second JFK-TLV flight has been postponed indefinitely.

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1488 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4544 times:



Quoting Mech24 (Thread starter):
Delta's second JFK-TLV flight has been postponed indefinitely.

Source?

and is there a reason?


User currently offlineSoxfan From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 869 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4544 times:

I'm not 100% surprised. Back in June, the flight to TLV was packed, but on the way back coach was pretty empty (though it was full in BusinessElite). Not sure how the loads have changed since then.


Pilot: "Request push, which way should we face?" JFK Ground: "You better face the front, sir, or you'll scare the pax!"
User currently offlineNWA757boy From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4520 times:

This is a rumor, and only a rumor but I heard that JFK-TLV was becoming a 744. But it wasn't announced today in the latest equipment changes. So who knows.

so all of the new routes DL announced are starting to disappear, first GOT now the 2nd TLV.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33194 posts, RR: 71
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4408 times:

IMO, all major airlines, foreign and domestic, will be announcing big long-haul cuts now through February as bookings start to become clear.

The only region that remains healthy in travel right now is South America.



a.
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6517 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4253 times:



Quoting NWA757boy (Reply 3):
so all of the new routes DL announced are starting to disappear, first GOT now the 2nd TLV.

Two routes being delayed or posponed is hardly a land slide or an indication all of the new routes disappearing.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4228 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
The only region that remains healthy in travel right now is South America.

no it isn't. in the latest traffic report, UA had a 12 pt. LF drop and AA and DL each were around 6 pts. CO was less but given the pecentage of AA, DL, and UA's traffic in deep S. America, it is clear deep S. America is weak right now. Clearly, traffic and capacity are not matched.


User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4123 times:

Yes, but it's not like DL made their 2009 expansion announcement "months ago" - the economy's been in the tank since the early fall. So what's with the shortsightedness in the planning department? Seeing GOT's news and now TLV, what's next?

[Edited 2008-12-15 18:34:58]


Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3345 posts, RR: 35
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4072 times:



Quoting Breaker1011 (Reply 10):
It's not like DL made their 2009 expansion announcement "months ago" - the economy's been in the tank since the early fall. So what's with the shortsightedness in the planning department? Seeing GOT's news and now TLV, what's next?

Delta decided just last week that another major cut in capacity for 2009 was in order. Those decisions are just now being made. The process is continuous. The outlook for 2009 deteriorated significantly over the past several weeks. The "tank" is a lot deeper now than when the planning process was originally happening for Summer 2009.


User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4013 times:



Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 11):

You may be right and I respect that very much, but I still think, only 32 days since the Nov 12 expansion announcement, which was only 24 days prior to the capacity cut announcement - a bit of corporate patience would have been more sound and respect worthy. And no, the outlook for 2009 has not changed THAT much in 32 days - it's gone from bad to a little more bad, and anyone with any vision/strong understanding of what's happening knows it will go to very very bad - and knew it 30 days ago.

Seriously - Gothenberg gets planned and then announced for launch in a year that already was looking horrible. I give Valencia another 3 days tops to remain on the DL map though I hope I'm wrong. I'm a DL fanboy as much as any, and I mean that - but from a corporate and investor perspective (of which I am one), this short-span retrench is a bit embarrassing, albeit very necessary.



Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3990 times:

If DL is finding it necessary to significantly cut back capacity, other carriers should be concerned about their financial viability. DL and NW had the highest operating margins among the US carriers in recent quarters and have considerable financial resources compared to other airlines.

We saw last year that DL went first with domestic cuts only to be followed by other carriers. TO think that DL is doing something others won't could only be said by someone who is failing to read the economic reports that are coming out on a daily basis.

The economic situation is not pretty for anyone. Companies in any industry that act decisively and quickly might stand a chance of making it through this crisis with minimal harm.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33194 posts, RR: 71
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3990 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
no it isn't. in the latest traffic report, UA had a 12 pt. LF drop and AA and DL each were around 6 pts. CO was less but given the pecentage of AA, DL, and UA's traffic in deep S. America, it is clear deep S. America is weak right now. Clearly, traffic and capacity are not matched.

YOY traffic on all airlines is up 12.1% and September alone was up 7.7%.

It's performing much better than other regions; or maybe its just that the foreign carriers are reaping the benefits at the expense of the U.S. carriers.



a.
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3958 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
YOY traffic on all airlines is up 12.1% and September alone was up 7.7%.

Nov. LF was down as posted above. check the press releases. LatAm may be doing better than other regions but capacity is still not matched w/ demand. Airlines at best are shifting capacitiy away from Europe in hopes of not losing as much money in Lat Am.


User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3345 posts, RR: 35
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3898 times:



Quoting Breaker1011 (Reply 13):
You may be right and I respect that very much, but I still think, only 32 days since the Nov 12 expansion announcement, which was only 24 days prior to the capacity cut announcement - a bit of corporate patience would have been more sound and respect worthy. And no, the outlook for 2009 has not changed THAT much in 32 days - it's gone from bad to a little more bad, and anyone with any vision/strong understanding of what's happening knows it will go to very very bad - and knew it 30 days ago.

International schedules are subjected to the IATA planning seasons. The big schedule expansion was loaded in time for the IATA deadline. Patience wasn't an option.

In the meantime, the outlook for airlines did deteriorate more rapidly in terms of revenue. We all saw it coming, of course, but the planning process for how an airline is going to deal with it is not something that happens instantaneously. In fact, both of these processes were actually completely separate functions. The overall capacity cut was NOT a product of Network Planning, it was a decision made at the highest level of the company. Let's call it a "strategic" decision, while the the previous route decisions were more "tactical".

Anyway, the route development process couldn't stop while the other decisions were being contemplated. The show, as they say, must go on. Particularly with the IATA deadline pending. So, to the 10 people who care, it is a bit embarrassing, but it should probably be looked at as an aggressive company moving quickly to adjust to a changing market.


User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3870 times:



Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 17):
Anyway, the route development process couldn't stop while the other decisions were being contemplated. The show, as they say, must go on. Particularly with the IATA deadline pending. So, to the 10 people who care, it is a bit embarrassing, but it should probably be looked at as an aggressive company moving quickly to adjust to a changing market.

You know, you re-educated me tonight - I forgot about that IATA filing issue and that it had a deadline attached to it. Thanks, and I do see your points well. And yes, it's awkward, and probably not the last announcement either. (proud to be 1 of just 10 people, that makes me unique)  Big grin



Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3345 posts, RR: 35
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3790 times:



Quoting Breaker1011 (Reply 18):

You know, you re-educated me tonight - I forgot about that IATA filing issue and that it had a deadline attached to it. Thanks, and I do see your points well. And yes, it's awkward, and probably not the last announcement either. (proud to be 1 of just 10 people, that makes me unique) Big grin

Yeah, the thing to remember is that things are usually more complicated than most of us realize.  Wink


User currently offlineCastropRauxel From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 467 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3135 times:



Quoting NWA757boy (Reply 3):
This is a rumor, and only a rumor but I heard that JFK-TLV was becoming a 744

I actually heard the same, and that coming from DL personnel which I consider reliable. both DL flights are doing very well and premium classes are always full - it would be foolish not to increase capacities, as demand to American destinations keep rising. if the second daily flight to JFK is canceled, I have no doubt DL will upgrade the aircraft.


User currently offlineContinentalEWR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3762 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2101 times:

Delta will add a 747-400 or an A330-300 on the JFK-TLV run, eliminating the need for two JFK to TLV flights. Slots at JFK are precious.

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23222 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2019 times:



Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 13):
International schedules are subjected to the IATA planning seasons. The big schedule expansion was loaded in time for the IATA deadline. Patience wasn't an option.

Perhaps patience wasn't an option. However, that doesn't really answer this point:

Quoting Breaker1011 (Reply 9):
And no, the outlook for 2009 has not changed THAT much in 32 days - it's gone from bad to a little more bad, and anyone with any vision/strong understanding of what's happening knows it will go to very very bad - and knew it 30 days ago.




I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1993 times:



Quoting ContinentalEWR (Reply 17):
Delta will add a 747-400 or an A330-300 on the JFK-TLV run, eliminating the need for two JFK to TLV flights. Slots at JFK are precious.

Is this confirmed?...



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6101 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1978 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 19):


Quoting ContinentalEWR (Reply 17):
Delta will add a 747-400 or an A330-300 on the JFK-TLV run, eliminating the need for two JFK to TLV flights. Slots at JFK are precious.

Is this confirmed?...

I don't think the 330-300 has the range to fly JFK-TLV without some major weight penalties.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineEl al 001 From Israel, joined Oct 1999, 1063 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1609 times:

Looks like DL really pulled off the 2nd flight as these are not listed anymore. Only a daiy 763 is left.

what are the chances that the 763 will be upgraded to 744?


User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1558 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 18):
Perhaps patience wasn't an option. However, that doesn't really answer this point:

Quoting Breaker1011 (Reply 9):
And no, the outlook for 2009 has not changed THAT much in 32 days - it's gone from bad to a little more bad, and anyone with any vision/strong understanding of what's happening knows it will go to very very bad - and knew it 30 days ago.

Jetlanta - I'm curious now - Delta waited a bit before announcing SYD, right? Would that route have been subject to the same IATA deadline, and if it was, wouldn't that demonstrate that they could have waited a bit before annoucing the 2nd TLV and GOT? Thanks for any info, Im interested to better understand the IATA guidelines on this topic.



Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
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