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DL/ MAC Reach Tentative Agreement  
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7564 posts, RR: 8
Posted (6 years 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4546 times:

10,000 jobs, 400 daily flights (250 with 70 seats or larger) and regional headquarters.

Quote:
Delta Air Lines will keep at least 10,000 jobs in Minnesota and locate its regional airline management in the Twin Cities under a tentative deal the carrier reached Monday with the Metropolitan Airports Commission (MAC).

3 full pages of information here

http://www.startribune.com/business/...KArks:DCiU1OiP:DiiUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAcidradio From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1875 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4508 times:
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Not bad at all. Everyone expected to see a total removal of anything and everything that made up an airline headquarters and/or major facilities like flight simulators and data processing. Oh and the whole bond deal pushed people's buttons too. But this looks like DL is making a decent effort to make good with the MAC and with Minnesota.


Ich haben zwei Platzspielen und ein Microphone
User currently offlineNorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1872 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4465 times:
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Frankly, I'm a bit stunned by this. While this is a victory for the state of minnesota and for minnesota jobs, i really don't get why DL agreed to this rather than just paying the penalties? Maybe I'm wrong, but aren't the synergies from a merger like this such things as the ability to cut or downgrade unprofitable routes, pull out of unprofitable markets or move service to those markets to other hubs that may generate better network feed, not to mention consolidating certain job functions, such as maintenance, ops, dispatch, maybe even res centers, to one location for each function, i.e. have one dispatch center, one maintenance center, one operations center, preferrably all under the same roof, to conserve facilities costs and located wherever DL can gain the most cost benefits through a lower cost of living and thus lower wages. Basically, it seems like, by agreeing to this, we're going to have two complete airlines operating at the same time, the name on the plane may say Delta, but there won't be one united Delta, internally, there will still be "Delta" and Northwest" and that seems to defeat the purpose of the merger, which should be to create one airline out of two, you can't do that if you have two ops centers, two dispatch centers, two maintenance departments, et al. the goal should be to consolidate everything as much as possible, whether it be physical plants or job functions, way to go DL, IMO you shot yourself in the foot on this one, but i'll probably be in the minority.


Why are people so against low yields?! If lower yields means more people can travel abroad, i'm all for it
User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4409 times:

I wonder what DL is getting out of the deal. I can't imagine pure goodness for the people of MN. I wonder also if NW had facilities in MSP that DL thought were superior to their own for this?

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3363 posts, RR: 35
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4253 times:



Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 2):
Frankly, I'm a bit stunned by this. While this is a victory for the state of minnesota and for minnesota jobs, i really don't get why DL agreed to this rather than just paying the penalties? Maybe I'm wrong, but aren't the synergies from a merger like this such things as the ability to cut or downgrade unprofitable routes, pull out of unprofitable markets or move service to those markets to other hubs that may generate better network feed, not to mention consolidating certain job functions, such as maintenance, ops, dispatch, maybe even res centers, to one location for each function, i.e. have one dispatch center, one maintenance center, one operations center, preferrably all under the same roof, to conserve facilities costs and located wherever DL can gain the most cost benefits through a lower cost of living and thus lower wages. Basically, it seems like, by agreeing to this, we're going to have two complete airlines operating at the same time, the name on the plane may say Delta, but there won't be one united Delta, internally, there will still be "Delta" and Northwest" and that seems to defeat the purpose of the merger, which should be to create one airline out of two, you can't do that if you have two ops centers, two dispatch centers, two maintenance departments, et al. the goal should be to consolidate everything as much as possible, whether it be physical plants or job functions, way to go DL, IMO you shot yourself in the foot on this one, but i'll probably be in the minority.

You are reading this all wrong. There will not be two separate airlines functioning here. Mainline Flight Control will still be consolidated in ATL.

Delta has always intended to keep most of the facilities included in MSP. The training, reservations and maintenance functions are required simply because the combined airline is too big to combine them at existing facilities in ATL. Plus, give the vast scope of NW ops in the Midwest, it makes sense to keep those functions near the operations. Delta doesn't even have many of those functions consolidated in Atlanta TODAY.

The minimum level of operations agreed to is far below what Delta ever plans on having at MSP. Contrary to the fears of many on here, MSP is the crown jewel of the NW network. Delta has never had any intention of shrinking the hub. This concession is of no significance to Delta.

And the "Regional Headquarters" is simply moving the "Delta Connection, Inc." team to MSP. It is a very small team and in fact, allows some of the functions of the wholly-owned carriers to be consolidated in one spot. For example, there was no need for Compass to have its HQ in metro D.C. I actually suggest that they might do this many months ago in an effort to reduce the sting of losing NWA HQ.

But finally, keep in mind that this merger was never sold as a way to cut costs. It was always claimed that most of the benefit came on the revenue side.


User currently offlineBrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4414 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4219 times:



Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 4):
it makes sense to keep those functions near the operations. Delta doesn't even have many of those functions consolidated in Atlanta TODAY.

Air travel today, combined with computers makes keeping anything near operations. How many pilots live accross the country from where they are based out of? I agree with pretty much everything you said but the one reason. The main reason is the cost of relocating them to ATL would be prohibitive not to mention how many people would have or want to relocate from Minnie to Hotlanta? That is my take on this situation.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3363 posts, RR: 35
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4140 times:



Quoting Brilondon (Reply 5):

Air travel today, combined with computers makes keeping anything near operations. How many pilots live accross the country from where they are based out of? I agree with pretty much everything you said but the one reason. The main reason is the cost of relocating them to ATL would be prohibitive not to mention how many people would have or want to relocate from Minnie to Hotlanta? That is my take on this situation.

Yeah, the relocation costs are certainly another factor.


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10640 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4086 times:

Hey, where's our little ray of sunshine, Nwaflyer? I'm sure he's got something to say about this.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...6&searchid=4196185&s=MAC#ID4196185



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineATWZW170 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 904 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4056 times:

Delta Connection managers moving to MSP....not a bad move. Is there going to be one person who is the leader of Mesaba and Compass or are things going to be individual still? Is this management team going to ensure seamless product and bring training standards closer together? God help if the director of inflight from Mesaba gets involved -- she has destroyed moral in the flight attendant ranks. Ground op's is great but I think Skywest does a bit of a better job....are we going to see improvements?

I guess the real question is what is the point of this management group? What is their purpose?

Thanks!



Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7564 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4014 times:



Quoting Davescj (Reply 3):
I wonder what DL is getting out of the deal. I can't imagine pure goodness for the people of MN. I wonder also if NW had facilities in MSP that DL thought were superior to their own for this?

Well building C is getting a much needed upgrade.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineATWZW170 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 904 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3984 times:

Do you think that is where the DL Connection operations will be based out of/


Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3363 posts, RR: 35
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3960 times:



Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 8):
Delta Connection managers moving to MSP....not a bad move. Is there going to be one person who is the leader of Mesaba and Compass or are things going to be individual still? Is this management team going to ensure seamless product and bring training standards closer together? God help if the director of inflight from Mesaba gets involved -- she has destroyed moral in the flight attendant ranks. Ground op's is great but I think Skywest does a bit of a better job....are we going to see improvements?

I guess the real question is what is the point of this management group? What is their purpose?

Thanks!

Delta already has this structure in place. Managing the Delta Connection program is a very complex job.


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7564 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3953 times:



Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 10):
Do you think that is where the DL Connection operations will be based out of/

If your asking me as far as building C goes... no... that has NW's res center and few other offices, I would Imagine they would be over at building A, which is NW's current HQ. C is part of NW's maint and stuff, credit union, and WorldGear store.

I'm guessing that Delta Connection dispatch and stuff atleast compass side might be moved to the current NW one that is set up better than DL's. I know that DL doesn't like the way their ops room is set up because there is a big wall in the middle of everything effectively sperating a lot of things.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineSunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2058 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3914 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 12):

Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 10):
Do you think that is where the DL Connection operations will be based out of/

If your asking me as far as building C goes... no... that has NW's res center and few other offices, I would Imagine they would be over at building A, which is NW's current HQ. C is part of NW's maint and stuff, credit union, and WorldGear store.

I'm guessing that Delta Connection dispatch and stuff atleast compass side might be moved to the current NW one that is set up better than DL's. I know that DL doesn't like the way their ops room is set up because there is a big wall in the middle of everything effectively sperating a lot of things.

Building "C" was the old North Central / Republic Airlines HQ. this would be the white building. NW added the 747 MX complex after they bought RC, on the back side. Holds 2 747's
The large hanger at the left end towards runway was built by RC to house wide body MX, could hold DC-10.



Just an MSPAVGEEK
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7564 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3886 times:



Quoting Sunking737 (Reply 13):
Building "C" was the old North Central / Republic Airlines HQ. this would be the white building. NW added the 747 MX complex after they bought RC, on the back side. Holds 2 747's
The large hanger at the left end towards runway was built by RC to house wide body MX, could hold DC-10.

I'm assuming that your adding on to my statement, otherwise if not I know, I've been to and inside building C several times.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3813 times:



Quoting Brilondon (Reply 5):
Air travel today, combined with computers makes keeping anything near operations. How many pilots live accross the country from where they are based out of? I agree with pretty much everything you said but the one reason. The main reason is the cost of relocating them to ATL would be prohibitive not to mention how many people would have or want to relocate from Minnie to Hotlanta? That is my take on this situation.

The cost of moving well yes, short term, you'll see a chunk of cash but long term, the savings will outweigh, but I don't think that has anything to do with it. However, space wise, there may be issues. I've been to Virginia Avenue several times... Relocation is all a part of the industry so the latter part about weather people would want to move to Atlanta, I don't think has any effect on their decision.

Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 8):
Delta Connection managers moving to MSP....not a bad move. Is there going to be one person who is the leader of Mesaba and Compass or are things going to be individual still? Is this management team going to ensure seamless product and bring training standards closer together? God help if the director of inflight from Mesaba gets involved -- she has destroyed moral in the flight attendant ranks. Ground op's is great but I think Skywest does a bit of a better job....are we going to see improvements?

I guess the real question is what is the point of this management group? What is their purpose?

I'm not sure what angle you're getting at. I'm going to take a stab on what I think you mean. The companies, as far as I know, will still have their respective HQs whereever they are. However, right know, there is a "President" of the DCI (Delta Connection) program that oversees contracts, bids, routes, etc. That guy and everyone that works for him is moving to MSP.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10640 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3804 times:

IIRC, the article in the Star Tribune says that Compass HQ will move to MSP, also.


"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3774 times:



Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 8):
the leader of Mesaba and Compass

Did these both belong to NW, the way DL used to own (does again?) ASA?

Will DL start doing more of the "DL Connection" in house? Would that help op performance? What about "Airlink"? Will that stay? Personally, I would prefer "Airlink" to DL Connection (I'd keep the later for contracted carriers).

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7564 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3735 times:



Quoting Davescj (Reply 17):
Did these both belong to NW, the way DL used to own (does again?) ASA?

Yes, they are both wholly owned by NW, compass was actually started in case of furlough's NW pilots would be sent down to Compass, and Compass guys had flow through, not sure how that is going to work now.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10640 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3728 times:



Quoting Davescj (Reply 17):
Did these both belong to NW, the way DL used to own (does again?) ASA?

Actually, now ASA is owned by Skywest. OH is owned by DL.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3700 times:

Quoting Mayor (Reply 16):
IIRC, the article in the Star Tribune says that Compass HQ will move to MSP, also.



Quoting Davescj (Reply 17):
Will DL start doing more of the "DL Connection" in house? Would that help op performance? What about "Airlink"? Will that stay? Personally, I would prefer "Airlink" to DL Connection (I'd keep the later for contracted carriers).

Contrary to what i've heard a lot of people have said. It is my opinion that DL will stick with contract flying to an extent. Heck, ASA's numbers were at its worse when they were owned by DL. They started to imporve their act once OO showed interest in their operations and actually got GSE equipment on the groud that actually worked. Now, I do see them going through the DCI program with pick and axe (as we've seen over the past year) a weed out whom them want from whom they don't want. But I think the idea of multiple carriers in a particular hub is here to stay.

[Edited 2008-12-16 09:37:50]


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineATWZW170 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 904 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3688 times:



Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 15):
I'm not sure what angle you're getting at. I'm going to take a stab on what I think you mean. The companies, as far as I know, will still have their respective HQs whereever they are. However, right know, there is a "President" of the DCI (Delta Connection) program that oversees contracts, bids, routes, etc. That guy and everyone that works for him is moving to MSP.

I'm sorry - my question was rather non specific.

I was just wondering if the president of DCI is going to attempt to bring the connection carriers into a more seamless product and have more oversight of how the product is being delivered. Right now I think most people would agree that Compass is lacking when it comes to the passenger experience. And If I am not mistaken MCH has a president who technically is in charge of both Mesaba and Compass - I believe John Spanjers reports to him -- I might be wrong. So will the respective presidents all report to the president of DCI? Hope that clarifies what I was going for.



Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7564 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3677 times:



Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 21):
Right now I think most people would agree that Compass is lacking when it comes to the passenger experience.

Like what?



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineATWZW170 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 904 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3662 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 22):
Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 21):
Right now I think most people would agree that Compass is lacking when it comes to the passenger experience.

Like what?

For example, F class predeparture drinks - they never happen. I was on a buddy pass a bit back and the flight attendant ignored the f cabin. And when I worked for Mesaba I flew on Compass at least a dozen times - never did I receive a predeparture beverage. During a meal flight once they picked up the trays we never saw the FA again -- I actually got up and asked for another glass of wine. On a flight from MDW myself and the passenger next to me asked for a glass of white wine, which was warm and we only got one -- the FA dumped the bottle out and refused to offer any more service -- we were still 30 minutes from MSP.

Don't get me wrong - there are a number of nice flight attendants, I know them personally however...so it's a bit different.



Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3643 times:



Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 23):

I have only been on one Compass flight in F and it was a great experience. The FA was around all the time keeping us topped off, etc. Didn't need a pre-departure drink as it was a quick taxi. I didn't expect much and they exceeded my expectations by far. I honestly think the E175 is my new favorite a/c.

If you're upset about not getting a pre-departure drink, I flew DTW-MIA in F a few days later and sat on the ground in DTW for over an hour and didn't get anything...depending on the expected departure, is it really necessary?


25 ATWZW170 : I think it's something most business flyers like, and of course us nonrevs! But I'm not turning this into a Compass bash -- my original point was is t
26 FlyDreamliner : Firstly, going down to 400 total and 250 mainline flights would be a substantial drawdown of service out of MSP, so it certainly would still leave th
27 AirNZ : Sorry, I'm not trying to be funny but I don't quite get what your love of, and the importance you seemingly place on free alcohol, and not getting it
28 Flighty : You must have said it backwards. They had to be very careful to suggest they were not merging to create a monopoly to build up their yields (which is
29 Burnsie28 : I always got them when I flew FC. Remember its a priviledge. It didn't say they are going down to that, thats the minimum. As it stood until this agr
30 ATWZW170 : Which is why I said I wanted to go back to the original point - I did not mean for this to become any kind of bash. And I totally agree.
31 Bobnwa : Yes I want to hear what he has to say about DL paying off the bonds early, which by the did not ever contain one penny of tax-payer funds. Goof for D
32 WorldTraveler : this validates what many of us have been saying for almost a year - DL intends this merger to be a merger of addition, not subtraction, that will bene
33 PSU.DTW.SCE : Agreed. People are quick to say that the NW/DL merger is "going to be like all other mergers in the past; slash, burn, cut, reduce, etc. Not the case
34 WorldTraveler : but it's also worth noting that DL's history with mergers has been FAR better than the rest of the industry to begin with. The biggest criticism that
35 Davescj : I completely agree. With the merger, DL has a built in massive presence in MSP (and MN in general). It would be foolish to through that away. If Sun
36 Bobnwa : No NW World Vacations will continue as a part of MLT which NW owned and now DL owns.
37 Cubsrule : I wonder if we've sort of entered a new era of airline mergers, at least in this country. HP/US had (and has) problems, but the core of both networks
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