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BA And QF Fail To Agree On Merger  
User currently offlineBrenintw From Taiwan, joined Jul 2006, 1607 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5070 times:

The BBC news website is showing that BA and QF have failed to reach an agreement to merge.

A little bit of further information: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7789077.stm


I'm tired of the A vs. B sniping. Neither make planes that shed wings randomly!
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5039 times:

Makes for the merger/buyout/whatever with IB more probable now.


"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5029 times:

...exept if the Spanish feel still treated as some kind of lesser junior-partner and tell BA to f..k off...
I would not be surprises if the IB deals not go through neither.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5002 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 2):
...exept if the Spanish feel still treated as some kind of lesser junior-partner and tell BA to f..k off...
I would not be surprises if the IB deals not go through neither.

Possibly, but they will still certainly go for ATI with AA...maybe its better that way in the long run.... scratchchin 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineMysterzip From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 167 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5001 times:

I didn't expect the talks the ends this soon. I would have thought they'd both get something out of these talks. The two complement each other well, in my opinion, but oh well.

User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4384 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4837 times:

Gosh, that was fast. Too fast to have analysed anything seriously, so it must all be around the ego and the personal profits of the people who did the talks only.

I strongly recommend to both airlines to fire all those who participated in these talks immediately and to replace them with people from the second row.


User currently offlineSevenforty From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4758 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 2):
...exept if the Spanish feel still treated as some kind of lesser junior-partner and tell BA to f..k off...
I would not be surprises if the IB deals not go through neither.

They're not 10 year olds. Don't think that's the way big business operates if there's money to be made.


User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3745 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4735 times:

What about a marriage with CX perhaps.

User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2486 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4720 times:

I think BA should stick to IB and look at the new AZ (with IB), while QF should try something with MH.

This will make both airlines stronger and enhance OneWorld.



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineCpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 38
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4695 times:



Quoting Burkhard (Reply 5):
I strongly recommend to both airlines to fire all those who participated in these talks immediately and to replace them with people from the second row.

I was always going to happen - reading what was written above, this seemed like it would be no merger of equals, more a defacto take-over of BA by QF, by the sounds of it - probably to do with profits and the BA pension fund liabilities. If there weren't even more problems.

QF can certainly survive on its own with no dramas. Still, the mega airline would have made big trouble for others.


User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2486 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4665 times:

A mega BA/QF airline wouldn't have threatened anyone. A mega LH/OS/BD/SN/LX/LH Italy/4U/ is a real dangerous giant.


Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineAFGMEL From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 744 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4605 times:

I don't know if anyone has more information, but the ACCC might have had something to say about it., so even if they had reached agreement they might have regulatory issues. Not sure about UK though.


B 727-44/200 732/3/4/8/9 767-3 742/3/4, 772/3, A319/20/21 332/333 342/3 , DC3/4/10, F28/50/100, ATR72
User currently offlineSevenforty From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4494 times:

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 10):
A mega LH/OS/BD/SN/LX/LH Italy/4U/ is a real dangerous giant.

Yes well you could argue that buying up alot of loss making scrap (with the exception of LX) isn't the best policy considering the outlook for the new year. How long before it starts hitting the bottom line at LH.

Even BD with its slots is probably going to be a drain now unless LH sell it quickly. Can't seeing them being able to compete effectively with BA/AA/IB or just BA/AA over the pond.

LH has got plenty of cash though, hope it stays that way.

[Edited 2008-12-18 03:55:09]

User currently offlineSparklehorse12 From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 884 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4494 times:

It is pleasing to know that QF decided against being a slave to BA. BA have some long term baggage (pardon the pun). MH makes a way better partner I can imagine:

A JQ franchise starting in Malaysia to tackle AK. All, engineering done for both Airlines done in the facility funded by Qantas and MH.



Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4376 times:

I suspect when someone asked the question, nobody could find an answer to "what would be the advantage for QF". Too cynical???

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 5):
I strongly recommend to both airlines to fire all those who participated in these talks immediately and to replace them with people from the second row.

Now there is a thought!


User currently offlineSevenforty From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4341 times:

Quoting Baroque (Reply 14):
I suspect when someone asked the question, nobody could find an answer to "what would be the advantage for QF". Too cynical???

One has to wonder in that case why QF 'approached' BA in the first place ?

You also have to wonder whether the A380 delay isn't a blessing in disguise. More empty seats ? I think there would of been lots of advantages.

[Edited 2008-12-18 05:18:14]

User currently offlineWAC From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4293 times:

BA's only partner and life long will be AA...think of the number times they have tried to hook up but have been prevented by FAA/CAA...they are still in love...
As for QF am happy for BA...QF may be a good airline but it is no BA....that goes for IB as well.... CX SQ suit BA's image more....
In Europe I think Finnair though small is a natural partner....and if AZ can rebrand as a premium carrier than I think the two markets suit each other...Italians especially business travellers look to BA as a VIP carrier "La British" is as respected as "la Singapore"
QF needs a carrier from Asia, best one for them is either Asiana or ANA or MH, but the former are more attractive in terms of markets.
BA/AA will only happen I think when the US forgets the foreign ownership rule cos BA apart from it eye boggling pension deficit is pretty well run company and maybe on the home straight to become "The World favourite Airline" which they lost over 15 years ago,


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4271 times:



Quoting Sevenforty (Reply 12):
Can't seeing them being able to compete effectively with BA/AA/IB or just BA/AA over the pond.

They don't have to, and I fail to understand this myth that the world revolves soley around Transatlantic.

Quoting Sevenforty (Reply 15):
You also have to wonder whether the A380 delay isn't a blessing in disguise. More empty seats ? I think there would of been lots of advantages.

"...lots of advantages" to what.......an alleged merger, or to the A380 delay?


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4239 times:



Quoting Sevenforty (Reply 15):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 14):
I suspect when someone asked the question, nobody could find an answer to "what would be the advantage for QF". Too cynical???

One has to wonder in that case why QF 'approached' BA in the first place ?

Aside from the benefits of a close association - which they seem to have already - good question!!

But now I think about it. there is a disappointment and that was to see how 51% plus 51% (or whatever the exact numbers are) would add up to 100% and then leave a bit for outsiders. I was hoping to learn a bit of New Math as Tom Lehrer would have put it.


User currently offlineSevenforty From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4221 times:

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 17):
They don't have to, and I fail to understand this myth that the world revolves soley around Transatlantic.

Oh sorry I thought the route was a gaping hole in the *A network. That's all I meant.

[Edited 2008-12-18 06:00:47]

User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3589 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4183 times:



Quoting WAC (Reply 16):
BA/AA will only happen I think when the US forgets the foreign ownership rule cos BA apart from it eye boggling pension deficit is pretty well run company and maybe on the home straight to become "The World favourite Airline" which they lost over 15 years ago,

BA/AA won't happen for the same reason as BA/QF did not happen. It is just too complex of an ownership structure to maintain, as exemplified by the post quoted below. Please be aware that the UK also has foreign ownership rules, it is just set at 49% instead of 25%.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 18):
But now I think about it. there is a disappointment and that was to see how 51% plus 51% (or whatever the exact numbers are) would add up to 100% and then leave a bit for outsiders. I was hoping to learn a bit of New Math as Tom Lehrer would have put it.

You hit the nail on the head. Both the EU and Australia require 51% domestic share holdings. Trying to keep withing this regulation while maintaining a liquid global market for the shares would be a very daunting task indeed, if not impossible.


User currently offlineSevenforty From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4179 times:

Who said anything about BA/AA merging. ATI is all they want.

User currently offlineWAC From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4167 times:



Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 20):
BA/AA won't happen for the same reason as BA/QF did not happen. It is just too complex of an ownership structure to maintain, as exemplified by the post quoted below. Please be aware that the UK also has foreign ownership rules, it is just set at 49% instead of 25%.

Yea but the UK official policy is that this not necessary...it s not a UK law look at BD.... UK government is probably the only government in the US-EU open skies that once a true open skies and the clause in the present about dropping open skies if foreign ownership rules are not relaxed by the US. At the moment there is no EU law stipulating a carrier or airline in the EU needs to be owned by the home nation...it s only BA's policy and that can change unlike the US.
NOTE EU LAW NOW TRUMPS NATIONAL LAW IN AVIATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4146 times:



Quoting Sevenforty (Reply 6):


Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 2):
...exept if the Spanish feel still treated as some kind of lesser junior-partner and tell BA to f..k off...
I would not be surprises if the IB deals not go through neither.

They're not 10 year olds. Don't think that's the way big business operates if there's money to be made.

Don't underestimate the pride of Spanish business men..
Even beancounters and CFO's in Southern Europe don't react and reason the way cool Anglo-Saxons would.Furthermore not too many people within Iberia seem to find the kind of financial reward in a merger, that BA management wants to sell them.I might be completely mistaken-but that's what a forum is all about - but for me the deal is not secured at all..



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineSevenforty From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4035 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 23):
Don't underestimate the pride of Spanish business men..
Even beancounters and CFO's in Southern Europe don't react and reason the way cool Anglo-Saxons would.Furthermore not too many people within Iberia seem to find the kind of financial reward in a merger, that BA management wants to sell them.I might be completely mistaken-but that's what a forum is all about - but for me the deal is not secured at all..

Well the carrier was one of the top gainers in the IBEX today. With the QF deal off the BA merger will be more favourable to IB. The markets seem to like it.


25 DLPMMM : There is an EU law stipulates that 51% of share ownership reside in EU residents. BD does not have a problem with LH buying it because LH is EU. The
26 TFFIP : Maybe they should do the Lufthansa plan and look for smaller operations with good potential. Not many left in Europe now that LH is in full flow of sh
27 AirNZ : You must remember that this slogan was coined entirely by BA themselves as an advertising campaign.....there was nothing subjective in it with regard
28 Sevenforty : When the phrase was coined in 1989 they internationally carried more passengers than any other airline. It was introduced at the same time as the ico
29 Veeseeten : Must you troll every single thread about BA, AirNZ? As for 'The Worlds Favorite Airline' - I believe this slogan was based on the fact that at the tim
30 Veeseeten : Must you troll every single thread about BA, AirNZ? As for 'The Worlds Favorite Airline' - looks like sevenforty beat me to it!! (edit) Anyway, this s
31 EK413 : FANTASTIC news!!!! The possible merger of an Australian icon with UK carrier was an insane idea... EK413
32 AAMDanny : What about Finnair.... BA dont really need to merge with anyone... BUT... since LH are buying everyone else it would be a big threat to BA. I think I
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