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When Can DL Use NW Jets On DL Routes?  
User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6482 times:

With the repainting of a DC-9,744,A320 I started wondering when Delta will be able to start using NW jets (A320 for example) on a Delta route that usually uses a 738.

I'm especially interested to see what will happen on a route like SAN-ATL, if it will stay 757s or if we will see an A320 or 753 in the mix.

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21515 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6473 times:

DL will be able to start calling NW's planes its own when their operating certificates are combined. Until then, NW's planes are NW's, regardless of colors.

They could decide to have NW operate a route that they'd rather use a 320 on than a 738, but the flight would fly with a Northwest callsign, not a Delta callsign.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineNWA757boy From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6464 times:

This spring when some original NW metal heavies are doing DL routes out of ATL, JFK, and SLC and vice versa with original DL metal heavies doing original NW routes out of MSP, DTW and PDX

User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6467 times:

As far as flying goes, NW is taking over DL's TPA-LAX-TPA route soon, and DL next month is basically eliminating NW from ATL.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6461 times:

Tomorrow if they wanted to.

Granted, the plane, regardless of its colors - would have a NW decal on the side and be staffed by NW crews - but Delta can put any of their planes, or any of their subsidiarys' planes, on any route they wish.


User currently offlinePhollingsworth From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 825 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6335 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 1):
They could decide to have NW operate a route that they'd rather use a 320 on than a 738, but the flight would fly with a Northwest callsign, not a Delta callsign.

While the legal basis would still be a NW flight, since that is the operating certificate that it will be flown under. there is no legal requirement that the NW flight number be marketed to the public. This is the case with the regionals today. You will have a hard time finding an OH flight number listed in reservation systems.

Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 4):
Granted, the plane, regardless of its colors - would have a NW decal on the side and be staffed by NW crews - but Delta can put any of their planes, or any of their subsidiarys' planes, on any route they wish.

Within the limitations of regulations and union contracts.


User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6311 times:



Quoting Phollingsworth (Reply 5):
While the legal basis would still be a NW flight, since that is the operating certificate that it will be flown under. there is no legal requirement that the NW flight number be marketed to the public. This is the case with the regionals today. You will have a hard time finding an OH flight number listed in reservation systems.

This is true. Chances are we will see all DL and NW flights combine as DL on the reservations side before we see them combined on the ops side ... much like HP and US.



I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6263 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 3):
As far as flying goes, NW is taking over DL's TPA-LAX-TPA route soon, and DL next month is basically eliminating NW from ATL.

When is soon? I am booked on this roundtrip Dec 23 and Dec 29, and my mom in reverse on the 29th and Jan 3...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4875 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6186 times:
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Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
When is soon? I am booked on this roundtrip Dec 23 and Dec 29, and my mom in reverse on the 29th and Jan 3...

Not that soon... Smile. I believe the NW A319 takes over the route starting in February 2009.


User currently offlineChiefNWA From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6160 times:



Quoting Panamair (Reply 8):
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
When is soon? I am booked on this roundtrip Dec 23 and Dec 29, and my mom in reverse on the 29th and Jan 3...

Not that soon... Smile. I believe the NW A319 takes over the route starting in February 2009.

Yup, February 3rd.
In my opinion, being on an A319 for five hours cant be very comfortable.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6125 times:



Quoting ChiefNWA (Reply 9):
In my opinion, being on an A319 for five hours cant be very comfortable.

No different than the 738 they use now, seats a tad wider.

What I can't understand is the downgrade in capacity. The TPA 738 flight is always full, since the downgrade from the Song 757. The F/As who do this run confirm this.

So they are cutting 35 seats and IFE on this 4 hour flight. And this was one of the routes that the SatelliteTV actually worked on because it stayed so far south!!



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21515 posts, RR: 55
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6106 times:



Quoting ChiefNWA (Reply 9):
In my opinion, being on an A319 for five hours cant be very comfortable.

More comfortable than a 757 or 737.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineFFlyerWorld From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6082 times:

NWA starts MCO - LAX on a 320 as well in February. Long flight without any AVOD or IFE system. Perhaps DL will get busy and add IFE to these birds prior to this - atlhough not sure it is much of a priority at this point. I know the Medallions of Delta will NOT be happy about this!

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6068 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
More comfortable than a 757 or 737.

Whatever you say.

Many airlines have the same seats on both. Yes, you can in theory put wider seats, but some airlines don't, others it's like .3". And if they cut pitch like NW, where it's 30-32" rather than 31-33" on DL, what exactly is "more comfortable" about it?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineFFlyerWorld From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6047 times:

Correction to above - appears the MCO - LAX starts in January and then may disappear in Feb. I don't think anything is set past January 31st at this point. Who knows.

User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6013 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 1):
They could decide to have NW operate a route that they'd rather use a 320 on than a 738, but the flight would fly with a Northwest callsign, not a Delta callsign.

Which will happen in May. ATL-NRT operated by Northwest. Delta's 777 ATL-NRT goes to either 3x or 4x weekly.

Quoting NWA757boy (Reply 2):

This spring when some original NW metal heavies are doing DL routes out of ATL, JFK, and SLC and vice versa with original DL metal heavies doing original NW routes out of MSP, DTW and PDX

 checkmark  I think the real question we all want to know is: Can we get an exact date for the combination of operating certificates?

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 10):
So they are cutting 35 seats and IFE on this 4 hour flight. And this was one of the routes that the SatelliteTV actually worked on because it stayed so far south!!

Unfortunately we are all going to have to put up with this next year. However, I'm sure it's Delta's top priority like it is for the repainting of NW planes to redo the interiors as well.



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5913 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
When is soon? I am booked on this roundtrip Dec 23 and Dec 29, and my mom in reverse on the 29th and Jan 3...

February 3, it goes from a 757 (at that point).

LAX-TPA goes from DL 1470 (10:53a-6:23p) 752 to NW 1148 (10:00p-5:26a) A320

TPA-LAX goes from DL 1471 (7:25a-9:53a) 752 to NW 1147 (7:00a-9:27a) A320

Quoting ChiefNWA (Reply 9):
In my opinion, being on an A319 for five hours cant be very comfortable.

Its now an A320... and to me the A319/320 are far more comfortable, higher ceilings, and a wider cabin make a large difference.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 10):
No different than the 738 they use now, seats a tad wider.

Exactly

Quoting FFlyerWorld (Reply 12):
Perhaps DL will get busy and add IFE to these birds prior to this - atlhough not sure it is much of a priority at this point.

Internal memo stated NW planes won't see any refurbs until towards the end of 2009.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 13):
Whatever you say.

Many airlines have the same seats on both. Yes, you can in theory put wider seats, but some airlines don't, others it's like .3". And if they cut pitch like NW, where it's 30-32" rather than 31-33" on DL, what exactly is "more comfortable" about it?

I'm 6'4" and I still find the A319/320 on NW or any other carrier more comfortable then a DL 737 or any other 737... minus maybe WN's legroom.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5831 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 16):
I'm 6'4" and I still find the A319/320 on NW or any other carrier more comfortable then a DL 737 or any other 737... minus maybe WN's legroom.

That's fine. But 30" pitch on one carrier isn't as comfortable to me as 32" on another, even if the seat is a little wider. I'm 6'3".

This sounds like a Monty Python science debate sketch, where the scientists were trying to win arguments by claiming to be taller than the other guy, so obviously more right…



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5808 times:



Quoting Evan767 (Reply 15):
I think the real question we all want to know is: Can we get an exact date for the combination of operating certificates?

Safe bet: Not anytime soon. Look at how long US maintained two separate operations (US West and US East) ... wasn't it just a few months ago that the two operations officially combined under one certificate/code/callsign?



I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offline77411 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5622 times:



Quoting DL767captain (Thread starter):
As far as flying goes, NW is taking over DL's TPA-LAX-TPA route soon, and DL next month is basically eliminating NW from ATL.

I have heard DL and NW will consolidate into T-5 at LAX with in the next year. So does that mean NW and DL will be operating out of the same terminal by the time these flights start? If not this is a good recipe for pi*s*d off passengers if they are hiking from one side of LAX to the other to connect.


User currently offlineDispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1249 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4481 times:



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 4):
Tomorrow if they wanted to.

Granted, the plane, regardless of its colors - would have a NW decal on the side and be staffed by NW crews - but Delta can put any of their planes, or any of their subsidiarys' planes, on any route they wish.

Not so fast - they would need to have the required revisions made to the DL and NW FAA Operations Specifications to permit a DL airplane operating to a city that isnt currently on the DL list, and vice-versa.

If a given city is on the DL list, then yes, they could do it tomorrow - but if not, not until the required revisions are made to the DL Airports list - and that hasnt happened yet.



Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
User currently offlineNWA757300 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 299 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4265 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 16):
NW planes won't see any refurbs until towards the end of 2009

The question of interior upgrades was brought up on the recent in flight services conference call. According to the call NW planes will recieve interior refurbs by the end of 2009. NW to DL interiors is a priority for next year. There was no mention of IFE uprades.


User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3261 times:



Quoting Phollingsworth (Reply 5):
You will have a hard time finding an OH flight number listed in reservation systems.

You are completely incorrect. OO shows on all Comair flights operated for Delta in all CRS's. it actually shows as DL/OO 1234...then under the display it says "flight operated by Comair" or something similiar.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineBagpipes From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 83 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3111 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 10):

I prefered the Song 757 over the 738. I flew the route three weeks ago, and i would have definately wanted that Song bird. I flew ORD-SAN in a UA 319 once when i was reporting for duty out there and it was very uncomfterable. I couldnt imagine the TPA-LAX run on a 319. At least its not a DC-9!



Fly Song Jets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10350 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3047 times:



Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 22):
You are completely incorrect. OO shows on all Comair flights operated for Delta in all CRS's. it actually shows as DL/OO 1234...then under the display it says "flight operated by Comair" or something similiar.

OO is Skywest. Did you mean OH? Actually a flight will show as DL 1234 and then the connection operator underneath.


From Delta.com


7:50pm
CVG 10:56pm
CAK 1-stop
Detroit-Wayne County
(48 min layover) 3 hr 6 min Delta 6390
CRJ 100
operated by Comair
In-Flight ServicesCoach (H)
View Seats
Delta 2610
CRJ 100
operated by Pinnacle Dba Northwest Airlink
In-Flight Services



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
25 NWAESC : I've never felt cramped on either an A319 or A320, but no one will ever accuse me of being tall. The 757-300 on the other hand....
26 Viscount724 : I doubt that could be done on certain international routes covered by restrictive bilaterals (Brazil as one example) where the route authority has be
27 NorthstarBoy : Speaking of Bilaterals, how will they handle all the fifth freedom service NW has from Nrt to elsewhere in asia? will those need to be negotiated/amen
28 SkyguyB727 : Actually that is not true. OO (Skywest) and OH (Comair) do not codeshare with each other. Both operate flights for DL. In the CRSs, the flights show
29 Bobnwa : Specifically, what did you like about the 757 or 738 comfort wise that the A319 did not have?.
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