28L28L From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 459 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3709 times:
Can anyone offer any information on the approximate date that Qantas ended service from Los Angeles to Papeete? I hadn't realized that it had ended so long ago.
Cheers.
Airbear From Australia, joined May 2001, 632 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3476 times:
This was all in "modern" times, but I think they quit PPT in the late '90s. I remember my brother was put on an Air Pacific QF code-share flt. routing PPT/AKL then on QF metal to SYD. Not sure what year that was tho'.
However... a little history lesson. QF had earlier called at PPT back in the early/mid 1960s, as one stop on their "Fiesta" Route from SYD-LHR, flown with their earliest B707s.
This great way to LHR went SYD/PPT (maybe stopping first at either NAN or AKL - some other old farts out in A.net may be able to verify this point), then Acapulco, Bermuda, then to LHR (altho' something tells me this may also have involved a stop in NYC-Idlewild, before LHR. But again, I stand to be corrected).
Airvan00 From Australia, joined Oct 2008, 712 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3462 times:
Quoting Airbear (Reply 6): This great way to LHR went SYD/PPT (maybe stopping first at either NAN or AKL - some other old farts out in A.net may be able to verify this point), then Acapulco, Bermuda, then to LHR (altho' something tells me this may also have involved a stop in NYC-Idlewild, before LHR. But again, I stand to be corrected).
QF580 SYD-NAN-PPT-ACA-MEX-NAS-BDA-LHR
and QF530 SYD-NAN-HNL-SFO-NYC Idewild-LHR both great flight and I had the pleasure of travelling F
Gemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5240 posts, RR: 6 Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3385 times:
Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 9): For a while there was a second weekly flight terminating in MEX, and operating through AKL:
SYD-AKL-PPT-ACA-MEX
Never, ever heard that one. You got a timetable or some other doco, because at the time I'm pretty sure QF was not allowed fifth freedoms from NZ, to protect TEAL which was jointly owned.
DavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1528 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3306 times:
Quoting Gemuser (Reply 10): Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 9):
For a while there was a second weekly flight terminating in MEX, and operating through AKL:
SYD-AKL-PPT-ACA-MEX
Never, ever heard that one. You got a timetable or some other doco, because at the time I'm pretty sure QF was not allowed fifth freedoms from NZ, to protect TEAL which was jointly owned.
Alas, no, I don't have a timetable. I used to have a collection of QF, TE and NZ timetables from the early and mid-60s, and I stupidly threw them out when I shifted to Europe back in the early 1980s, so I'm now reliant on dredging the recesses of the brain, I'm afraid. A couple of comments, though - and maybe it will also trigger a memory for someone else:
* In the back of my mind I have a recollection that the PPT stop on the second flight was a tech stop only, I assume due to the extreme protectionist stance that the French government took to air rights back in those days. There was a period of several years in the early 1960s during which TE was unable to serve Tahiti at all, due to French government gamesmanship. Service by TE to PPT only recommenced with AKL-PPT-LAX flights in 1967 or thereabouts (it was a little while after the AKL-NAN-HNL-LAX flights which began in November 1965).
* The QF-TEAL issue you raise is a little out of chronological synch, I think. The NZ government bought the Australian share in 1961, but the Fiesta route post-dated that - at least the second flight with the stop in AKL did. Mangere only opened in 1965; prior to that the only jet services were BOAC's Comets. So service via AKL on the Fiesta Route must have been after 1965, or well after the TEAL ownership issues were sorted out.
Another little historical snippet on Pacific services that I dredge from the recesses of my mind:
Not only did BOAC run services twice weekly on AKL-NAN to connect with their and QF's services to the United States (BOAC used to run SYD-NAN-HNL-(LAX or SFO, can't recall) in parallel with QF) - but there was also a period in which TEAL used BOAC Comets in their down time at Auckland to run services on AKL-NOU. [Useless Fact #32761]
And speaking of charters, anyone remember the period in which TEAL (or was it Air NZ?) chartered a weekly (or was it fortnightly?) HS748 from the then Fiji Airways to operate NAN-(PPG or APW, not sure) and onward to Aitutaki? This was before the runway at RAR was constructed. [Useless Fact #32762]
I'll save Useless Fact #32763 for another time!
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
Airvan00 From Australia, joined Oct 2008, 712 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3236 times:
Quoting TDubJFK (Reply 13): Holy crap .. you could probably swim from SYD-LHR faster!!
LOL Those early 707's didn't have much range. If you think that route is bad your should see some of the pre jet routes SYD-LHR via India. I think i counted 17 stops on one, and hence the name of the kangaroo route-- lots of hops .
Gemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5240 posts, RR: 6 Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3181 times:
Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 11): The NZ government bought the Australian share in 1961, but the Fiesta route post-dated that -
OK, that was earlier than I thought, I was thinking 65/66. But I am still sure, although relying on memory, (which can be dangerous), QF did not fly beyond NZ until well into the 70s, which is why an AKL stop seems wrong to me, unless it was for a very short time right at the end of the Fiesta route.
DavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1528 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3079 times:
Quoting Gemuser (Reply 15): OK, that was earlier than I thought, I was thinking 65/66. But I am still sure, although relying on memory, (which can be dangerous), QF did not fly beyond NZ until well into the 70s, which is why an AKL stop seems wrong to me, unless it was for a very short time right at the end of the Fiesta route.
Quoting Timz (Reply 12): It was 1966-67-- weekly SYD-AKL-PPT-ACA-MEX and back. PPT was tech stop only, on that flight.
My source is my memory, but Timz (Reply 12) offered some corroboration to my recollection, even down to PPT being a tech stop on the flight via AKL, and added a time period, 1966-67. My recollection is also that it didn't operate for a long period. Maybe Timz can provide a source?
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
ZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5025 posts, RR: 12 Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3049 times:
Quoting AerorobNZ (Reply 4): I know the SYD-AKL-PPT sector was QF44, and I was going to put 1997 as when it ended.
Originally I remember this flight as QF103/104 SYD-AKL-PPT then it changed to MEL-AKL-PPT-AKL-SYD as QF43/104 I think it was. Originally twice weekly then a third flight was added probably around 1996/97, flights stopped with QF metal around 2000 I believe. I think they ran 74L's for a time and then 763s. They started using TN and PH around 1999/2000 as a codeshare and still use TN today both AKL-PPT and SYD-PPT which will end sometime soon SYD-PPT that is.
Quoting AirGabon (Reply 16): Is NZ still flying to PPT? I thought they ended their B763' AKL-Rarotonga-Papeete-LAX route but it appears that they still operate flights to PPT..
They codeshare with TN AKL-PPT-LAX and also still run 2 weekly AKL-PPT flights of their own.
Quoting Gemuser (Reply 8): AGAIN - The "Fiesta Route" was SYD-NAN-PPT-ACA-MEX-NAS-BDA-LHR.
I support the above, more to follow
Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 11): In the back of my mind I have a recollection that the PPT stop on the second flight was a tech stop only
David, the technical call you remember was in fact at NAN, but not for passenger Fiesta route, it was QF952 "cargo V Jet" SYD SFO on the Wed and QF950 "cargo V Jet SYD NYC on the Fri. Interestingly the return QF953/951 was a scheduled stop NAN. Source QF timetable 50th year Dec1 thru Dec 31.
Quoting Gemuser (Reply 10): Never, ever heard that one. You got a timetable or some other doco, because at the time I'm pretty sure QF was not allowed fifth freedoms from NZ, to protect TEAL which was jointly owned
Gemuser, from all the resources I have, you are quite correct. The history of the Fiesta route is as follows:
"QF introduced its Fiesta Route round the world service in 1964, flying via FIJI and TAHITI to ACAPULCO in MEXICO, then to LONDON via NASSAU and BERMUDA". Source: I still call Australia home (The Qantas story) by MalcolmKnox published 2005, page 41.
The QF580 service dep SYD 0930 Fri 707 V Jet and arrived LHR Sat 1020. The second QF 580 service dep SYD on a Tue 0930 termMEX on arrival at 1305 same day. This second service initiated Dec 1 1970 Source: The QF timetable I mentioned above.
Dec 73 QF timetable shows the above services operating, but by Oct 74 the QF timetable shows both sevices terminating MEX. At no time 64 thru 74 can I find any routing thru NZ for this route.
Interestingly in 74 QF were were routing thru PPT a service to Vancouver QF586 SYD/NAN/PPT/YVR. Source: QF timetable Oct 27 1974
I know the above may be off topic however I felt I was able to assist others in their posts, cheers.
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3301 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2633 times:
QF was still doing the service in 1996, I remember that they used 74L and 743 on the route.
Timz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6477 posts, RR: 8 Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2591 times:
Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 22): can you confirm that you're referring to my recollected routing, ie SYD-AKL-PPT(tech)-ACA-MEX?.
Consider it confirmed. QF 582/583.
25 MayaviaERJ190: It might be Australian Alice meeting Mexican Jaime (pronounced High-Meh) and turning into German Alzheimer, but thanks to you all, specially to Gemuse
26 Gemuser: On a regular basis, no. It was always a B707. But that not to say a QF B747 has never visited ACA, they have been used on charters all over the place
27 TN486: Timz, thank you for that clarification, we learn something new everyday. When going through all my old QF timetables I am missing those for 66/67 due
28 DavidByrne: Another interesting question about the Fiesta route: the stop in ACA. Of course ACA is a well-known tourist mecca, but I'd have thought that in the '
29 Gemuser: Yes, it was not required eastbound and if MEX had been at sea level would not have been required at all. For what ever reason QF decided to serve ACA
30 Viscount724: QF also operated to YVR via PPT with the 707-338C for a while in the 1970s. It's the only time there has ever been nonstop YVR-PPT service. At the ti
31 DavidByrne: Didn't one of the Canadian holiday-market companies run semi-scheduled services on the route and onward to NZ at one point? Or is my memory failing m
32 SunriseValley: For what it is worth to this thread, I flew QF SYD-PPT- LAX in June of 1993 on a 747-200.
33 Viscount724: The source isn't very complete. It overlooks the stop in Mexico City. The only Canadian carrier other than CP Air, Canadian Airlines and AC that I ca
34 TN486: I believe you would have flown on QF103, which on some occassions was a 74L It would have been fun. In Oct 95 the service was SYD/AKL/PPT/LAX
35 Fly2YYZ: It was in 98 that C3 started a route that operated as YYZ-YVR-HNL-RAR-AKL, but I don't recall PPT was ever served.
36 DavidByrne: I think that this is correct - after I posted I became surer that the stop I was recalling was RAR, not PPT.
37 SunriseValley: On that particular day there was a large girl's school contingent which added a lot of fun to the in cabin experience
38 TN486: error on my part, MEXICO should have read MEXICO City
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... we spent a couple of days in Tahiti, then continued onwards to Sydney.
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