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Effect Of Charging For Baggage On Boarding Times  
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 4261 times:

In November of this year I flew for the first time on an airline that had just begun charging for the first checked bag. On this itinerary, the boarding of all four segments was painfully laborious; so much so that we did not have a single push-back that wasn't significantly delayed because of storing the voluminous amounts of carry-on material. Passengers were not even allowed to store their jackets up top until all passengers had boarded (nor was anyone with only small bags allowed to use the overhead bins!!), and even then most people sat with their coats on their laps the entire flight!!

To paraphrase the old government saying, "a few minutes here, a few minutes there, and pretty soon you're talking about a significant amount of time!!"

So exactly how much time is being lost now that the stowage of carry-ons has become this excruciating? Have schedules been adjusted already to account for the longer times needed to board/de-board?

And in the end, is it really worth it?


Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFLY2TUS From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4235 times:

New Baggage Fees? Starting in November? You're not talking about good ol' F9 are you?  Smile

If so, yes it was a painful first couple of weeks. Most of our flights going arriving and departing were late. We had to adjust our timing for just about everything in the daily operation of things (except for actual departure times of the aircraft.)



Ready. Set. Jet.
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4220 times:



Quote:
New Baggage Fees? Starting in November? You're not talking about good ol' F9 are you?

Oh yeah, you betcha!! Flew them to 15 degree Minnesota...where it was just STARTING to get cold...

The people I feel most sorry for in all this is the flight attendants...having to be the vicious hall-monitors making sure there are no bin hogs. Instead of being able to say "welcome aboard", it's now, "get that *#&^%(#-ing suitcase out of the bin!! And don't put any of your other *#$&%(-ing stuff up there until we say so!!"



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7695 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4213 times:
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I don't think it's a problem if people aren't allowed to take on stupidly large amounts of 'hand' luggage.


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4216 times:

If you're in one of the last zones for boarding, it really sucks, as I just had happen to me a few days back. It wouldn't have been so bad if the overhead bins that run down the middle of the cabin on DL's domestic 763s were more like those on the 764ER and 777. You can't even fit any sort of roller bag into them at all (maybe one of those 16" roller bags), so folks sitting in the middle put their roller bags into the other bins, making it harder for those who board later in the process to find room for theirs. On top of that, folks were putting their personal bag in the bin as well (I know on my flight out, the F/As requested that folks wait until after everyone is onboard to store jackets and smaller bags to ensure enough room for the roller bags.) In order to get my bag into the overhead bin, some guy had to move his laptop bag (which he probably should have put into the smaller middle bin [The guy even asked if my bag would fit into the middle bin; it would if the regs didn't require the bins to be shut.]. What made it worse is some passenger put their big cowboy hat box in the space, and I barely was able to get my bag in. On both legs, I stuffed my jacket on top of my carry on bag.

If airlines are going to charge to check bags, they need to increase the size of the bins on ALL a/c. If not that, then perhaps they need to add an addition 10-15 minutes to the boarding process.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21507 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4181 times:



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 4):
DL's domestic 763s

With interiors designed for a time when customers were allowed to check many bags for free...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinePlaneguy727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1245 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4147 times:

Perhaps in the USA we should look at models elsewhere - as in 1 bag carried on (no exceptions). Yes I know what would happen, but it's not a bad idea (esp for the F/As that have to deal with this mess)


I want to live in an old and converted 727...
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22877 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4086 times:



Quoting FLY2TUS (Reply 1):
If so, yes it was a painful first couple of weeks.

On (non E-Jet) RJs, it continues to be painful. The number of gate checked bags seems to be overwhelming rampers, and I've been on flights where people without gate checked bags cannot deplane because of the chaos in the jetway.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineAerorobNZ From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7184 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4086 times:



Quoting Planeguy727 (Reply 6):
Perhaps in the USA we should look at models elsewhere - as in 1 bag carried on (no exceptions). Yes I know what would happen, but it's not a bad idea (esp for the F/As that have to deal with this mess)

Everywhere this should be the case. And if they want the other item to go they pay for it at the gate to go in the hold or it gets left behind and sent back to the customer at the passenger's expense.

Several other stipulations I wish airlines would go for.
- Ban trolley bags. If you can't hold it to walk around an airport, then it isn't hand carry.
- Ban duty free purchases on the departure. They should only be available on arrival at the destination. (this would also help all the passengers make their flight, rather than those who stop for shopping.


User currently offlineLuv2cattlecall From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4067 times:
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Quoting AerorobNZ (Reply 8):
Several other stipulations I wish airlines would go for.
- Ban trolley bags. If you can't hold it to walk around an airport, then it isn't hand carry.

So...in order to fill those seats (no airline I know of is running a 100% LF), they should make travel...more of a pain?



When you have to breaststroke to your connecting flight...it's a crash!
User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4055 times:



Quoting AerorobNZ (Reply 8):
Everywhere this should be the case. And if they want the other item to go they pay for it at the gate to go in the hold or it gets left behind and sent back to the customer at the passenger's expense.

No, not at the gate at all.......pay for it at the Check-In desk


User currently offlineFLY2TUS From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4009 times:

It takes a watchful eye at the checkin desk to make sure those that say "Oh I have a carry-on, no checked bags." That their "carry-on" is truly carry on size. I've seen some LARGE roller bags that people try and fit in the overheads.

Of course then there are those that print their boarding passes online, that's a little harder to track.



Ready. Set. Jet.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21507 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4004 times:



Quoting AerorobNZ (Reply 8):
- Ban trolley bags. If you can't hold it to walk around an airport, then it isn't hand carry.

Yes, only the strongest in our society should have privileges, while the injured/sick/weak/elderly should pay extra. Great concept...

And of course, pilots and F/As all use trolly bags, so should they be forced to carry those around, too? Or are they a special case?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineLoveTheSkies From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3947 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12):
Or are they a special case?

Actually, we are Wink
We are allowed extra carry-ons, because we need a lot of stuff for the flight. We have the same allowance as pax plus flight bag.

I worked flights into LGW right after the incident happened which limits liquids. Pax were not allowed to bring anything but a zip-lock bag which held their travel papers. Boy, we boarded a full 777 in 5 minutes!!! Heaven!!!!

Nowadays, it seems everyone is scared to enforce the rules. Don't want to upset the passengers! By the time the three bags walk onto the aircraft, they have gone through the check in area, security, and past the gate agent. It falls on me, the flight attendant who will spend the next 5 hours with you being upset, to take those extra bags away.

Everybody has to go through security, so why not stop it right there. Limit the size of the scanners (which has stopped me from bringing on a fat bag in FRA) and start counting: "One".
Everything else needs to be checked (exceptions as stated by FAA). That's it!!!


User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1371 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3932 times:

I flew an A321 last week and it took at least 45 minutes to board the plane - and that is not counting the early boarding time.

The worst part is that the stupid inflight TV boxes make the space under the seat practically useless - even for my laptop bag.

They should charge to carry on bags and check bags for free.

--

My last CRJ flight on UAX was almost humorous. At DEN they put all the bags on a cart then roll it up to the end of the jetway at the RJ terminal. The cart was stuffed full, overflowing and the passengers had to start throwing bags from the cart to the jetway floor while 3/4 of the jet passengers were waiting to grab their bag.


User currently offlineAFGMEL From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 744 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3922 times:

Y'all need to change the way you do things. Technically speaking, here there are size limits. Not always enforced I'll grant you, but if it's done at security then the FAs don't have to deal with it.

Once departing internationally from MEL, they were enforcing same at the doors just before immigration. They wailing and gnashing from people who were trying to carry what in some cases looked like steamer trunks onto the aircraft. They were made to check them including one young woman who shouted at the implacable security guy for about 10 mins. (We were queuing for immigration).



B 727-44/200 732/3/4/8/9 767-3 742/3/4, 772/3, A319/20/21 332/333 342/3 , DC3/4/10, F28/50/100, ATR72
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22877 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3909 times:



Quoting LoveTheSkies (Reply 13):
Everything else needs to be checked (exceptions as stated by FAA). That's it!!!

From a PR perspective, I'm not sure that's compatible with charging for checked bags...



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineLoveTheSkies From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3872 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 16):
From a PR perspective, I'm not sure that's compatible with charging for checked bags...

Why? You are allowed one bag plus personal item. How much do you need for a trip? I travel to Europe for weeks every year with my two sons and we each have one suitcase plus purse/game-bag with us. We could check one more for free but never need to.


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8897 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3849 times:

I have no problem with the current baggage program, especially since nearly every airline has the elite boarding lines in place. Helps make it much easier for me to get that overhead space should I be a few minutes late for boarding.

That being said, the big thing is most people are infrequent travellers that don't know how to put a bag in the overhead bin. It's reality - I see it quite often. For me, I have a 22" rollaboard and fly Delta 99% of the time. I can tell you, on a 757, my bag fits in handle first; on a 737-800, it's the same, unless I'm in Row 1 when it will only fit in sideways due to the curvature of the fuselage; on a MD-88, it's wheels in first on the A/B/C side, sideways on the D/E side; on a 767-300, it's got to go in on the A/B or F/G side, and sideways there. 767-400s and 777s are fine. I know what plane I'm getting on and put my bag up accordingly; briefcase goes under the seat in front of me unless I'm in the bulkhead, on a BusinessElite 767 (won't fit under the seat and needs to go above) or I'm on a 767 in the middle section (put it in the smaller overhead).

However, I see passengers way too often put their coats in the overhead before boarding is done, bags put in incorrectly, etc. - that's what slows down boarding.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22877 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3833 times:



Quoting LoveTheSkies (Reply 17):
How much do you need for a trip?

I don't think it's about that-- it's a perception issue. People perceive that carriers are having their cake and eating it too. They are saying, in essence, you can't carry X on so you'll have to pay us for the privilege of checking it. IMO, it's not unreasonable, but I'm not sure that my opinion is representative.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFrmrCAPCADET From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1714 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 3659 times:

Why don't they assign bins to associated seats. They could charge a extra couple $$ for that, and/or gate check/AND return at gate those seats which don't have space.


Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 100
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3613 times:
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Quoting LoveTheSkies (Reply 13):
Everybody has to go through security, so why not stop it right there.

Please, not that. Its painful enough to fly as is.

We have an infant. Right now my wife and I consider it too much of a hassle to fly with our child. Think about it... compared to back in 2000... it is!

Quoting FrmrCAPCADET (Reply 20):
Why don't they assign bins to associated seats. They could charge a extra couple $$ for that, and/or gate check/AND return at gate those seats which don't have space.

Don't give FR any ideas... next time you'll find their overhead bins with a credit card reader. You'll pay 50 pounds (or Euros) per opening!

And then people wonder why certain airlines with more 'passenger friendly' policies are winning market share? Why doesn't every A32X operator copy B6 with the enlarged overhead bins? Do you really think WN allowing 2 free bags is going un-noticed?

And make it so full fare Y gets something for the added fee! e.g., express check in, 2 bags, a meal (even if its a box), etc.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineR2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2603 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 3523 times:

FR seem to have made the calculation, and for them it turns out to be advantageous to charge for checked bags. Given that this airline place maximum priority on fast turnaround times and would do anything to scratch a few extra minutes, they must get some very obvious benefit from this policy.

User currently offlineKAUSpilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1958 posts, RR: 33
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3480 times:

The baggage fees are a disaster from a cutomer service perspective, and an employee perspective. I'm sure the execs are laughing all the way to the bank.

Mainline jets really need to start having some sort of gate check service a-la the RJ's if they're going to allow everyone to bring a full sized roll aboard as a carry on! There's simply not enough room on most narrowbodies to accomodate the amount of bags people are bringing.

Then of course you have F/A's climbing on seats with high heels trying to shift bags around and slam bins shut...it's only a matter of time before someone gets seriously injured. In fact last week I witnessed a fellow have to be taken off by paramedics because someone dropped bag on his shoulder.

My sister was traveling yesterday, they forced her to check her carry on at the gate because they were out of space by the time she boarded....well her connecting flight got cancelled, and of course her bag is GONE.


User currently offlineFrmrCAPCADET From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1714 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3462 times:

It would be worth it not to have to hassle to get your overhead space. Whether you were early or late it would be there. No overbin hog with oversize or umpteen extras in your third of the overbin - if they are in your bin space they get gate checked. Actually I agree that it shouldn't entail a charge, but I wouldn't complain about a nominal fee.


Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
25 RussianJet : They tend to be strict about the number of bags taken into the cabin by each pax and will often (not always, largely depends on location, inidividual
26 Skymiler : Same for me -- but I usually carry a duffle now, as it squashes in anywhere! The hard-side rollaboards take up fixed amount of space, whether full or
27 Rivet42 : Funnily enough, I made two round-trips on U2 from LGW to Europe within the last 2 months and all 4 flights were late pushing back for exactly the sam
28 NorthstarBoy : tell me about it! I flew LGW-EWR in 2006, my regular suitcase had already been misplaced by EK from the previous sector, i got to the ticket counter
29 Jetstar : I agree 100%, it pisses me off when they tell you that you only one of your carry-ons can be placed overhead and the other smaller personal bag has t
30 FrmrCAPCADET : Next year I picture the TV for the person behind the H row seats sitting squarely on my seat. If I sit just so I fit, and if my feet are just so they
31 AerorobNZ : I do travel with a 7kg Camera bag with SLR lenses equipment and a laptop bag and yet I've walked all the major airports of the world without issue -
32 BrianDromey : Maybe if US airlines followed the European model where only ONE carry-on of any type is allowed the boarding process might be swifter. The 738 does ha
33 KAUSpilot : 22" roll aboards should be acceptable carry on's....although apparantly BA believes otherwise, the insisted on checking mine, because the wheel stuck
34 SyeaphanR : In Europe, it's smoothed out a bit with the panics over security causing a nice simple 1-bag rule through most airports. Size restrictions have to be
35 R2rho : Reading the posts from our American friends here, I get the impression that size rules are much less enforced (if at all) over there than here in the
36 Ikramerica : No, there was not any other way. That's why they did it. Size was a matter of heat to prevent fires, and location was a matter of installation and ma
37 Floridaflyboy : Here at NW, it's been pretty smooth for the most part. The biggest thing is that once the bins fill up, they allow passengers to check excess bags fre
38 Jetstar : From what I understand, gate checked bags are not tagged with bar codes, so they are not scanned in when loaded in the baggage compartment. If the ba
39 Jetstar : I can pack for up to a 3 day trip just using my roller board, so my roller board can weigh between 31 to 35 pounds, depending on the length of the tr
40 Tugger : This is something I don't understand, it seems kind of wrong that people in these seats are essentially robbed of part of the value of their seat. Os
41 NWAESC : If only the other 99.999999999% of the flying public knew what to do with their bag depending on A/C type... Maybe in your city, but certainly not in
42 UA772IAD : I concur. All of my narrow body flights (operated with Airbus equipment) have been delayed because of a lack of storage space for bags. The flight att
43 Tugger : And the joy of it is the nasty looks some passengers give you when you do rearrange their luggage in order to properly fill the overhead. I often fin
44 Tango-Bravo : Just returned from a trip on NWA (who charge $15 for the first checked bag) PHX-MSP-BJI and return on which all segments were at or very near 100% loa
45 Moose135 : So when I carry on my laptop in a briefcase and my camera bag with several thousand dollars worth of DSLR equipment, which one will the airline accep
46 AerorobNZ : Why?? If people were still only allowed the same allowance 23kg/50lb just without 7kg for hand luggage it wouldn't overwhelm any more than it would n
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