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Airline Passengers To Be Tagged With RFID Chip ...  
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6244 times:

At least that's what the "OPTAG" project -financed by the EEC in Brussels- claims .
The obscure excuse is to trace down more easily retardent passengers, who are responsible for the delayed departure of about 5% of all flights.
In reality it clearly opens the door for an increased use of active RFID chips,that would help authorities to trace our movements and wherabouts .INitial applications for airtravellers can easily be expanded for other obsure reasons..
Watch out what's comming !!

http://www.silicon.com/research/spec...ravel/0,3800011481,39163204,00.htm
http://ec.europa.eu/research/transport/projects/article_3718_en.html

[Edited 2008-12-18 23:41:46]


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21456 posts, RR: 60
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6188 times:

And so will it be a crime if I refuse to wear the tag? Or throw it away? I'd like to see them try to enforce anything like that for international travel.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3900 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6129 times:
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Other airlines are studying a less intrusive system in which the RFID chip is embedded into a boarding pass, with no camera involved, just strategically located readers to figure out whether the reason you're not on board on time is is because your boarding pass is having a last glass or suffering from having had too many last glasses.


I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2208 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6112 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
And so will it be a crime if I refuse to wear the tag? Or throw it away? I'd like to see them try to enforce anything like that for international travel.

With the widespread use of telephones, they can almost enforce that for "traveling" to your mailbox today.



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offlineEmbajador3 From Spain, joined Aug 2006, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6081 times:

This is unbelievable, i just hope that this does not go any further.


Flying Together
User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6067 times:



Quoting Embajador3 (Reply 5):
This is unbelievable, i just hope that this does not go any further.

if we (i.e. the people) don't stop it, it will....

something that's funny in a sad way is that I can easily imagine all those "security enhancements" brought upon us (not only in aviation, also in daily life) having occurred regardless if 9/11 had happened or not... the only thing that would have been different is the rationale - maybe "organized crime" instead of "terrorism".

Something a lot of people fail to understand: you can't defend freedom by taking freedom away... but, sadly, that's what the consensus of most people in these days seems to be - security over freedom and screw the collateral damage.



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User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6052 times:

To me this really is a door-opener for other RFID applications ,always under the disguise of a utility for service oriented use.In reality it helps to supervise us a little more.
We are already today subject to RFID use without our knowledge ( you buy some textiles,books,consumer goods- they are tagged and traced via powerful RFID readers..)



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4452 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5887 times:

Makes me wonder...a person like me who enjoys walking to all the obscure corners of the airport and photographic things...might be detained or removed from the secure area for "suspicious" activity.

already at Denver TSA followed me quite a bit as I took photos of the terminal architecture and aircraft outside. I can't see this chip serving to do anything to make a person like me feel more comfortable at the airport.

Of course this is purely selfish. the honorable thing to do is just hang up my camera and take the chip, and disappear amongst the sea of faces.

Who amongst us can stomach that?


User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1831 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5717 times:

What a disgusting idea. This is one passenger who isn't going to be RFID'd.

Take that, big brother.

[Edited 2008-12-19 05:53:53]


Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offlinePmk From United States of America, joined May 1999, 664 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5708 times:

Over my nearly dead body!

PMK


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5637 times:

There are simple ways to counter this BS. You can either bend your boarding pass a couple of times to destroy the antenna of the RFID chip or you can put in into some aluminum foil that doesn't let the radio waves through. You could also put it in a microwave, if you have one with you, that destroys the chip.

This Big Brother crap is already in usage in public transportation systems in Portugal. I once could hardly leave the subway system in Lisbon because I (unintentionally) folded my ticket in my coat and destroyed the chip by doing so.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21456 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5567 times:

turn off your phone, print your pass online, etc. They can't force you to comply...


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5562 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
I'd like to see them try to enforce anything like that for international travel.

Intra-EU, for example, would be international travel.


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5535 times:

Good discussion, and some good points raised but I'm also interested in some. However, the general mantra on a.net is 'if you've nothing to hide why object to security measures'.......in which case, may I ask, why the objections to this, or what's the difference in being fingerprinted/eye scan taken? The only difference I can see (and I'm most genuinely and certainly not wishing to offend) is that Americans don't have to undertake those procedures when entering the US, but would have to for 'international' travel and thus I can see objections from that quarter. Would that be a fair assessement of the difference?

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21456 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5494 times:



Quoting AirNZ (Reply 13):
Intra-EU, for example, would be international travel.

True, but it's now under one unified treaty and one set of rules.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2208 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5476 times:



Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 6):
if we (i.e. the people) don't stop it, it will....

The problem is that we, the people, have no choice in post-democracy Europe. Most EU countries didn't care about asking whether the people wanted the EU constitution or not. And when the constitution was rejected in the few countries that had a chance to state their opinion, the constitution was repackaged as the "Lisbon treaty" and approved without a referendum in all countries except Ireland. And Ireland, which voted no, has basically been told by the EU to fix the problem in some way.

The leaders of the EU will introduce whatever they want to have no matter what the people think.



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offlineGBan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5258 times:

Great idea, not only for airport security. Give one of those RFID chips to every criminal. They'll certainly happily carry it around...

As far as I'm concerned I prefer to print my boarding pass on my own paper. Since I'm not a criminal (yet) that should be OK for me.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22678 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5239 times:



Quoting AirNZ (Reply 14):
in which case, may I ask, why the objections to this, or what's the difference in being fingerprinted/eye scan taken?

Well, one difference (which has nothing to do with this anti-American nonsense you espouse) is that the fingerprint/eye scan provides the authorities with your location at a moment in time. That's different from a system which can locate you continuously. While cell phones make such a thing theoretically possible now, I'm not aware of any government that is doing it.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineKnid From New Zealand, joined Aug 2005, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4691 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 18):
I'm not aware of any government that is doing it.

I'm pretty sure your govt does it...

Source


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19275 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4656 times:

I'm fine with it as long as it's not implanted and as long as it's a temporary measure.

RFID tags are so cheap, just pop them in the boarding pass. When the passenger boards, he surrenders the pass. End of story. You're only tagged while you're in the airport. What are you worried about? That the government will find out that you're taking a leak? You've already given up your privacy by entering an airport, so I don't see what this takes away.

Now, as soon as they start with a permanent or implanted version, that's a different story.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22678 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4602 times:



Quoting Knid (Reply 19):
I'm pretty sure your govt does it...

Asking a judge when there's suspicion of wrongdoing is quite a bit different than doing it to everyone.

The fact that we make people surrender their passports when they are accused of crimes in no way implies that it would be acceptable for the government to run around willy-nilly taking people's passports.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineRDUDDJI From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1446 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3644 times:

I sell RFID systems. While they are awesome in many respects, their Big Brotheresque abilities are quite scary. They have RFID dust now that someone can sprinkle on your shoulders to track you.

The good news is that tags and readers are still too expensive for an airline that issues hundreds of thousands of BPs per day.

I worked on an RFID project at UA with bagtags. Even at 5 cents a piece, the cost is into the multiple millions per year before you even add in the hardware... Airlines for the most part aren't going to make that investment with little or no return... (Just because they find you doesn't mean they can get you on the plane)

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
They can't force you to comply...

...and they don't have to let you board either...



Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2724 times:



Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 21):
They have RFID dust now that someone can sprinkle on your shoulders to track you.

http://frontierindia.net/spy-dust-catches-thieves-fbi-says-no-comment
and that's just the beginning..
I'm following this technology because I think the abusive use and ever increasing application-scenarios are a genuin threat for normal citizens.CIA and FBI or ony private company can profile candidates for recruitment based on their purchase profile for chemical drugs,travel attitudes,alcohol purchases ,type of books they buy,films they watch..( confirmed in several books I read written from previous CIA case-officers) Based on this profile the agencies can determine if a candidate is prone to be alcoholic,dependent on special drugs,instable in his family-life,or a combination of all.
A combination of RFID chip tracing and facial recognition software ,licence plate tracking and mobile triangulation can allow the permanent supervision of most citizens.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2625 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 22):
A combination of RFID chip tracing and facial recognition software ,licence plate tracking and mobile triangulation can allow the permanent supervision of most citizens.

welcome to 1984.... in Germany there are hard fights against licence plate tracking going on right now.... I'm afraid they will ultimately be lost in the name of percieved "security" Sad



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User currently offlineArchie From Mexico, joined Aug 2000, 228 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2495 times:



Quote:
Most EU countries didn't care about asking whether the people wanted the EU constitution or not

Thing is you can´t just sit and wait for them to ask. That´s why people have to speak up and fight back (legally of course).

I won´t be using that thing when I fly!

Archie


25 ItalianFlyer : WOW......thats.....really disturbing The way you cut the delay out is leave them behind! Not tag and track them like Caribou.
26 Post contains links Beaucaire : http://www.propagandamatrix.com/010304rfidtagsineuros.html Just put a 20 Euro note in the microwave oven.. You might see all of a sudden a little burn
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