Ayubogg From UK - Scotland, joined Mar 2007, 216 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13165 times:
I just got off the phone with my friend who is coming home for the Holidays. I am a little appalled by what she tells me. I don't know ticket rules like the back of my hand, but I'm hoping that airlines still have the common sense to do what's fair for passengers.
My friend was to fly AA269 from JFK to SEA and there connect to a QX hop down to EUG. The schedule looked something like this:
Well, her flight to SEA got severely delayed thrice at JFK. She says the first two were maintenance issues. After four hours, they get on the plane and there is an issue with a seat needing repair or replace. That was another half hour delay according to my friend. Well after the first delay, it was sure she was to miss her SEA connection and so ground staff at JFK assured her that the folks at SEA would arrange everything for her to spend the night at a hotel in Seattle in order to catch the early morning flight. Anyone guess where this is going?
She says that the people at JFK assured here multiple times that accommodations were to be arranged at SEA. Well, all passengers from that flight are by now frustrated, tired, and in need of some sleep. I'm guessing there were many who missed connections in SEA. Anyways, my friend finally arrives at SEA and after being bounced here and there around the airport, she is told finally that all hotels are booked and there is nothing they can do about it.
She just called me really frustrated about her situation. She is land side in the airport and if she can't find anyone to issue her a ticket at 1:00 AM, she will be stuck land side till the ticket counters open at five in the morning. Her clock is still in New York time so by now, I'm guessing she feels in the Christmas spirit. Anyways, I feel that regardless of hotel availability around the airport, AA should find her a bed anywhere in the Seattle area where she could stay until her flight tomorrow.
Anyone have any ideas as to who is to blame? I promised her we would write a letter of complaint about it. Now I'm thinking this has been mostly AA's fault. I have yet to find out the true reasons for the delays, but unless it was weather or any form of uncontrollable factor, AA should be responsible for accommodating any missed connections. Please tell me if I'm wrong or anything I should know. I don't want to write a letter if this is truly not the airline's fault. I have yet to hear the full story from my friend in order to assess the blame. If it is AA's fault, what do you think is reasonable compensation? Do you think once my friend arrived at SEA, it was now QX's responsibility to accommodate her? Any input is greatly appreciated!
As a closing note, I have never flown AA, and I have tried to fly them, but their fares are always too high (and I have searched). Also, with stories like these, and the fact that they nickel and dime the hell out of pax in Y, AA is discouraging to fly for me. Hopefully they change for the better.
Thanks again for any help or input and happy flying!
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 20544 posts, RR: 56 Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13152 times:
Quoting Ayubogg (Thread starter): If it is AA's fault, what do you think is reasonable compensation? Do you think once my friend arrived at SEA, it was now QX's responsibility to accommodate her? Any input is greatly appreciated!
Were the AA and QX flights on the same ticket? If they were, then AA should provide the hotel room. If they weren't, then AA has no obligation to do anything, since they did what they said they would - got her to SEA.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
DL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13136 times:
Personally this is why I book all my flights on our Platinum American Express. They have a program for this type of thing. Call up their concierge service, have them find you a hotel, and they pay for it.
But this is rediculous, same thing happened to me, I was flying SAN-SEA and had a layover in SFO. Well typical SFO got fogged in while I was there, I was only 17 at the time and was going to be stranded, because all hotel were "full". So I looked and the first hotel i called had a ton of rooms available so I put them on the phone with the airline agent to give me a room and get me there. Always check before you listen to them.
LHR777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 12977 times:
Quoting Ayubogg (Reply 2): Yes, all was purchased under one itinerary.
Not necessarily the same thing - you can have one single itinerary, with multiple tickets under that itinerary. If the ticket number is the same for all segments, then she's good to go. If the tickets were issued separately for AA and QX, then it's possible that AA have done their job and flown your friend to Seattle.
B777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1153 posts, RR: 3 Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12846 times:
Not long ago I missed a connection in ORD due to late departure from another US airport. Flew F on United. I was issued with a hotel room for the night, no big deal. However, a passenger from the same flight as me, also missed her connection. She was in Y and the United ticket agent basically said "tough luck, we're under no obligation to furnish you with a hotel room since you're only flying economy class". Suffice to say the lady passenger was somewhat less than impessed, a situation not made better by the fact that UA was unable to retrive her baggage.
I've also tried missing connections on intra-Europe flights, booked in economy. On all 3 occasions the airlines have put me up in a hotel, with lots of apologies and meal/drink vouchers to boot, regardless of the reason for the missed connection (once was because of weather, a so-called uncontrollable delay).
From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
FLY2TUS From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 65 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12838 times:
Quoting LHR777 (Reply 5): Not necessarily the same thing - you can have one single itinerary, with multiple tickets under that itinerary. If the ticket number is the same for all segments, then she's good to go. If the tickets were issued separately for AA and QX, then it's possible that AA have done their job and flown your friend to Seattle.
Beat me to it. I'll have to assume it wasn't all under one ticket, and was probably purchased on some sort of travel website (Expedia, Orbitz, etc.) Unfortunately that's not one ticket.
Jonathan-l From France, joined Mar 2002, 501 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 12424 times:
Quoting B777LRF (Reply 6): I've also tried missing connections on intra-Europe flights, booked in economy. On all 3 occasions the airlines have put me up in a hotel, with lots of apologies and meal/drink vouchers to boot, regardless of the reason for the missed connection (once was because of weather, a so-called uncontrollable delay).
Tcfc424 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 517 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 12242 times:
if the ticket is all on one itinerary from AA (not anyone else) then it should be on one ticket...it is true that others will mix and match tickets...and then AA is correct.
HOWEVER, just as with bumping, etc. if the airline fails to deliver you to the sepcified destination within 4 hours, I believe the passenger is entitled to monetary compensation, IIRC. Also, if all hotels in SEA were indeed booked, SEA should have sent a message to all stations advising of that...then another routing should have been prepared as it was obvious she would not make the connection.
The biggest question here is...same ticket? Either way, compensation should be due.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21316 posts, RR: 60 Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 12182 times:
Quoting Jonathan-l (Reply 9): In looking this up, I didn't find any relevant piece of legislation for the US regarding pax rights.
The following applies to Europe and has been in place for a few years now:
I don't recall the rule, but there is one. It involved non-weather delays of over 4 hours. The airline is required to put you on a competitor if available, or provide you compensation and accommodation until they can fulfill their contract.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
TOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3249 posts, RR: 4 Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 12098 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11): I don't recall the rule, but there is one. It involved non-weather delays of over 4 hours. The airline is required to put you on a competitor if available, or provide you compensation and accommodation until they can fulfill their contract.
If available is the caveat. QX is the competitor in the SEA-EUG market. It's not like there are ton of airlines flying into EUG.
SEA got pounded by weather yesterday. I'm sure hotel rooms at SEA are as scarse as hens teeth at the moment. Your friend had a host of things go wrong, some of which was outside the airlines control. But there's only so much AA can do. This may be one of those times where they need to suck it up and make the best of a bad situation.
Jonathan-l From France, joined Mar 2002, 501 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 12018 times:
Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 12): Maybe I am over simplifying this, but wasn't the passenger told in SEA that there were no hotel rooms available? If that was the case, what was AA to do?
If AA is to blame for the passenger missing the connection (which would probably be the case if the SEA-EUG was booked on the same ticket number as JFK-SEA), then AA has to come up with a solution for the passengers for which it did not fulfill the contract, don't they?
Maybe I am biased by what happens in Europe, but that would be the case here.
I once had a British Airways / Air France connection on the same ticket, BA got us in late into CDG, missed the connection, BA gave me all the vouchers for a night + meal + ...
N6168E From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 45 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 11943 times:
My wife and I were on Thai last year JFK-BKK-CNX. I had booked the 2 segments on different records because the separate fares were significantly less than the through fare (figure that). The JFK-BKK was delayed 3 hrs (Thai adivsed us 2 days prior) and they rebooked us to the first available to CNX with a WL on the earlier flt. In JFK they gave us a food voucher and a phone card. In BKK, they put us up in the BKK airport hotel, got us confirmed and checked in on the earlier flight before we went to the hotel. I was very surprised on how they handled it considering it was 2 separate records.
Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6261 posts, RR: 9 Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 days ago) and read 11742 times:
Quoting Jonathan-l (Reply 14): If AA is to blame for the passenger missing the connection (which would probably be the case if the SEA-EUG was booked on the same ticket number as JFK-SEA), then AA has to come up with a solution for the passengers for which it did not fulfill the contract, don't they?
Yes I agree that AA is responsible, but again I ask if ALL HOTELS are full, what can AA do about giving them a hotel room? They can't produce one out of thin air.
KirkSeattle From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 218 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 days ago) and read 11512 times:
We had a major snowstorm yesterday. I'm sure all the hotels by the airport were booked by her arrival time at 1am. Getting around on the roads were impossible yesterday, yet the airport did a great job staying open. I'd be thankful that her flight wasn't cancelled altogether.
Seattle does not deal with snow all that well. Rain, yes. Snow, no.
We are in for another round on Saturday night and I'm concerned about my flight on Sunday to JFK (Delta).
Mysterzip From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 161 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 11229 times:
It's quite possible that if hotels are full that the airlines won't put you in a hotel. On the other hand, airlines have their own rules and regulations. I'm sure American has some sort of compensation for denied boarding (maybe?). I wouldn't waste time finding American's rules or suggestions on this website. We can all merely speculate as to what happened. Only AA can do anything about it, as well as they should if they have any hopes of shining through this moment. When people go to an airline, people know that weather may ruin their plans. It's the people who work for the company who can make a delay feel like nothing, regardless of their class of travel.
I had a Delta passenger, who had some sort of a disability, which was hardly noticeable - he walked around by himself and was pretty young and handsome. He missed his flight on us because Delta brought him in late. As always, we tell him, it's Delta's responsibility to rebook him or put him up in a hotel. Surprisingly, and for the first time I've seen this happen in two years, Delta gave him a hotel. And we all noted in our minds that it's probably because of his disability or the fact that he could flirt really well (and let's face it, that works too).
Quoting DL767captain (Reply 3): Personally this is why I book all my flights on our Platinum American Express. They have a program for this type of thing. Call up their concierge service, have them find you a hotel, and they pay for it.
Unfortunately, not all of us have the luxury of an AmEx card.
Quoting N6168E (Reply 15): I was very surprised on how they handled it considering it was 2 separate records.
Some airlines, especially foreign ones, will put the passenger ahead of their own revenue. It's the human thing to do. Thankfully, those people exist - those who go out of their way to help passengers.
MTSUATC From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 120 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 11023 times:
I really feel bad for your friend. This is customer service gone wrong. If your flight is delayed over 4 hours due to the airlines fault you are entitled to food vouchers. When I was in customer service and would have flights cancel, I would get them out anyway I could. Our sups told us to do what you have to, just get them out. Instead of always insisting that your cnx would be fine, that tells me they didn't want to work. But you should be entitled to some compensation.
IAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 10687 times:
Quoting Ayubogg (Thread starter): she is told finally that all hotels are booked and there is nothing they can do about it.
Here's what I would have done. I would have called around and found a hotel. In the city wherever. If you find one you hold the room then inform the airline personel telling you otherwise that you have a room on hold and you expect them to pay for it and the transportation to and from the airport as well as meal voucher. Do this nicely but firmly and you are more likely to get cooperation.
If you can't find a room then what do you expect AA to do make one materialize out of thin air?
TOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3249 posts, RR: 4 Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10378 times:
Quoting MTSUATC (Reply 20): I really feel bad for your friend. This is customer service gone wrong.
No it's not. If JFK had given everyone hotel vouchers, they probably would've given every pax a voucher, and many might not need it. By waiting until they got to SEA, local AA had better control over the money spent. Unfortunately, because of weather, SEA hotel rooms were not available.
Quoting Mysterzip (Reply 19): Some airlines, especially foreign ones, will put the passenger ahead of their own revenue.
Many of those same foreign airlines rely on taxpayer subsidies, and therefore never have to worry about revenue.
To the OP, what would've been better? Cancelling the original JFK-SEA flight because your friend wouldn't have a hotel room in SEA for a few hours? Getting home days later? AA did the right thing in trying to keep people moving. When a combination of problems cause delays, your friend needs to realize it's not all AA's fault and tough it out for a few hours in SEA. She could still be at JFK with a storm coming.
She did have the option of getting off the JFK-SEA flight due to the delay. She could've asked to be rebooked for the following day. Why didn't she? Because she wanted to get to her final destination.
Hiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2133 posts, RR: 4 Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10015 times:
Who to blame? $5 SEA AA advised JFK no rooms due to storm once they realized this bird would be coming in very late after most agents go home time. JFK AA wanted them gone. If there are no rooms then there are no rooms....and rooms work on what hotels take AA vouchers...not all hotels take airline vouchers by the way. Aircraft are a million nuts and bolts put together by low bid and they break...fact of life. We cannot control mother nature and cities get snowed in...fact of life. Nothing is guaranteed in life....fact of life. Airline personnel do the best they can with what they are given....but somethings end up above their paygrade. Write a letter and get compensation....
25 EMB170: The point I think people are trying to make is that the AA folks in SEA really dropped the ball. They may have very well just shrugged their shoulder
26 Justlump: It is unfortunate that your friend had such a bad experience, however, I think her original plan was flawed from the start. I mean, leaving JFK after
27 Iboam: I just flew out of SEA yesterday to EWR and to say the least they had a lot of problems yesterday. I had multiple friends who had to be put up in hote
28 Atomsareenough: i find it pretty hard to believe that every single room in seattle was booked. i don't work for an airline, so i don't know how it works and maybe som
29 ChiGB1973: Hope she got their names and something in writing. It seems overkills, but would be of help. You ask for it in writing, start taking names, the truth
30 Mayor: Perhaps they shouldn't book a passenger if the connection isn't viable. Sounds more like whoever she booked with in the first place....oh, and AA's f
31 LH459: That's utter rubbish. Class of service has no bearing in such situations. The agent was wrong and out of line.
32 Ridgid727: I'm baffled as to why she wasn't given an option at JFK...(perhaps she was) if she was on AA269 lv jfk @420 arv sea 7:35 and the flight was 4 hours la
33 DLD9S: It is very realistic that all hotels in could have been sold out, especially those by the airport and downtown. Not only was the weather bad, but this
34 AirNZ: Only if booked on the same ticket and, unfortunately, that is unknown at this point. Until now the OP has only stated on the same itinerary, and has
35 Atomsareenough: fair enough, but nobody gave any indication that any such event was happening in seattle last night. it's possible, but i don't think it's particular
36 USFlyer MSP: Actually, UA does have a written policy of providing F/C class and FF elite passengers with hotel rooms due to any kind of delay or cancellation whil
37 YULWinterSkies: All hotels full ... or all hotels full for the price that cheapo-AA wants to pay them? Usually, when one shows the $$$$, he gets to something. All ho
38 LH459: UA still provides vouchers for a discounted room for Y class pax in case of weather delay. I've been stuck in DEN often enough to know this. Pax do h
39 FireFly: If you are in Eugene, you must know what this week's weather has been like here in the N.W. There were somewhere north of 100 flights cancelled or res
40 USFlyer MSP: Not to split hairs but if the pax have to pay then it is not a voucher. I disagree. If UA is not paying then they are not "furnishing" a room to the
41 DLD9S: The AA flight arrived in SEA at 12:14AM, the the QX flight was scheduled to departed at 8:10AM. Since she had to have her ticket reissued before the f
42 SupraZachAir: Thats a dummy's bet because you're exactly right on. This scenario plays out all the time, though usually the culprit is an outstation, not the hub.
43 Ayubogg: I will see my friend tomorrow. All I know so far is that she made it into EUG this morning, around 7:00 am she sent me a message to say so. I know sh
44 KirkSeattle: One of those options is not a good one today. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ocalnews/2008540171_webbus19m.html As for hotel availability, I
45 NorthstarBoy: it's rule 240, which was one of the conditions under which the government allowed the airlines to sell nonrefundable tickets, there had to be some re
46 B707forever: Write the letter. AA is wrong. It was clearly on one ticket and the delay was mechanical. They must compensate, period.
47 MEACEDAR: Wow, an extremely similar situation happened to me on AA. I was flying MCO-MIA-YUL about a summer ago and the flight from MCO-MIA was delayed 2 hours
48 Afterburner: Do passengers care? What they care about is the service, whoever provides the capital for the airlines.
49 Flybyguy: For the airline people on A.net.... Do airlines tell their employees to say that hotels are full so that they don't have to pay or are hotels REALLY
50 Jkudall: In all honesty, the employee in JFK probably just told your friend they would be taken care of in SEA with a hotel because that employee assumed there
51 Jkudall: Why would airlines intentionally do that? All passengers would have to do is call around to hotels and ask if there are rooms available. When I was w
52 DLRESAGNT: Just write to AA and explain the situation. If the root cause was that maintenance of the ACFT caused a mis-connect, then perhaps some compensation is
53 FlyDreamliner: AA gate service in general is pretty poor. I love their cabin service, but this hardly surprises me. I have had many (and heard of many more) instance
54 OPNLguy: You might find this a good read... http://consumerist.com/351163/no-more-rule-240-for-american-airlines
55 Lincoln: It certainly an be as long as the airlines are signatories to an interline agreement (and the airlines at play in this situation are). In fact, I wou
56 IAirAllie: Airlines do have contracted rates but the hotels aren't going to keep rooms empty for them on the off chance that there will be a major delay situati
57 F27friend: I am with you on this point. Rerouting would have been a simpler option. O/N accommodation is an additional charge for the carrier/s. At least by rer
58 AviationMaster: This has to qualify as one of the dumbest comments in recent memory. Now who would these foreign airlines be?