Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
2 More Delta, NWA Work Groups Ink Seniority Pacts  
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3092 posts, RR: 10
Posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2935 times:

Its nice to see that components in this merger are coming together. As we all know sometimes it can get sticky. We can recall the Northwest-Republic and USAirways-America West efforts. This effort at least for now looks like over time will mesh. Do you agree?

Courtesy: Associated Press

2 More Delta, NWA Work Groups Ink Seniority Pacts

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081219/delta_labor_agreements.html?.v=1

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1522 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2881 times:

So with the mechanics and meteorologists agreeing on seniority integration, does this mean that they have agreed to be non-union, or will there be a vote on this later? Either way, good news to hear things are going well so far, and I hope they continue to do so.

User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2833 times:

The NW mechanics have not rescinded their union status but it is no likely way that group will remain unionized as DL mechanics have not supported a union in the past. I believe federal rules say that there will not be a vote since the DL group is substantially larger than the NW group.

I'm not sure of the size or status of the meteorologists.

These agreements are symbolic of the desire Delta management has to make the merger go smoothly without harming anyone unfairly in the process - even though mergers can be very messy for all involved.


User currently offlineNwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3380 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2747 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 2):
The NW mechanics have not rescinded their union status but it is no likely way that group will remain unionized as DL mechanics have not supported a union in the past. I believe federal rules say that there will not be a vote since the DL group is substantially larger than the NW group.

Now that the AMT's at NW work under imposed terms, their CBA is a joke. IMO, no DL AMT in their right mind would want to regress back to what the NW CBA offers (and that's coming from an ardently pro-union guy). With that said, it should offer a window into what NW mgmt. usually asks for in it's openers, and what it thinks of it's workforce. Reading though it is quite a cautionary tale.

Quote:
I'm not sure of the size or status of the meteorologists.

~ 12 on the DL side. Non union.

~ 20 on the NW side. Members of North American Meteorology Association (NAMA).



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2662 times:



Quoting Acey559 (Reply 1):
So with the mechanics and meteorologists agreeing on seniority integration, does this mean that they have agreed to be non-union, or will there be a vote on this later?

It will be voted on later, but im guessing that the Meteorologists will be unionized, especially since NW has nearly double that of Delta.

For those wondering why NW has so many, well a lot of firms use NW's meterology, CO does, and one HP pilot said that even though they have their own, if NW reds out something they won't fly in that area. NW is highly regarded in meterology, it was one of the big factors back when UA hit turbulence and it ended up killing a couple people, however the Northwest jet in front of UA a while flew above that zone.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineSNCntry32 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1516 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2599 times:

NW has an award winning metorolgy department and I hope they can continue the tradion into DL as well.


Long Live Memphis!
User currently offlineDALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2533 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2559 times:



Quoting Nwaesc (Reply 3):
Now that the AMT's at NW work under imposed terms, their CBA is a joke. IMO, no DL AMT in their right mind would want to regress back to what the NW CBA offers (and that's coming from an ardently pro-union guy). With that said, it should offer a window into what NW mgmt. usually asks for in it's openers, and what it thinks of it's workforce. Reading though it is quite a cautionary tale.

Last month we were visited by the Dir of Line Mtc. His talk was mostly a what to expect during the merger process. He said he expects the Nw AMFA covered AMT's to decertify the union pretty soon after the merger. Most are not union supporters, they were hired during the strike. Next is the pay difference. NW AMTs will only get raises spelled out in the contract, I believe 1.5%. While those on the DL side are getting a 5% raise in Jan and rumor of another in summer.


User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3380 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2478 times:



Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 5):
NW has an award winning metorolgy department and I hope they can continue the tradion into DL as well.

 checkmark   checkmark 

Quoting DALMD88 (Reply 6):
Last month we were visited by the Dir of Line Mtc. His talk was mostly a what to expect during the merger process. He said he expects the Nw AMFA covered AMT's to decertify the union pretty soon after the merger. Most are not union supporters, they were hired during the strike. Next is the pay difference. NW AMTs will only get raises spelled out in the contract, I believe 1.5%. While those on the DL side are getting a 5% raise in Jan and rumor of another in summer.

I hear you. The difference between the MTX group and the others is that the NW CBA doesn't really offer anything to DL employees. Couple that with the "demographics" at NW and DL and I have no doubt that AMFA will be decertified in short order.

Now will DL AMTs decide to organize in the future? Good question, but first the current CBA at NW has to be long gone.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineSNCntry32 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1516 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2444 times:

I know CO and KL uses NW weather.. Anyone else?


Long Live Memphis!
User currently onlineKingAir200 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1611 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2334 times:



Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 5):
NW has an award winning metorolgy department and I hope they can continue the tradion into DL as well.

They are a pretty sharp bunch of guys. NWA essentially invented aviation meteorology, so they've been in the business for awhile. They have a pretty cool setup over in Building F in MSP, but I guess that's all for naught as the SOC is moving down to ATL.



Hey Swifty
User currently offlineSunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2038 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2196 times:



Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 9):
They are a pretty sharp bunch of guys. NWA essentially invented aviation meteorology, so they've been in the business for awhile. They have a pretty cool setup over in Building F in MSP, but I guess that's all for naught as the SOC is moving down to ATL.

Doesn't NW have dispatchers in Tokyo who handle Asia flights? What happens to them?



Just an MSPAVGEEK
User currently offlineDALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2533 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2112 times:



Quoting Sunking737 (Reply 10):
Doesn't NW have dispatchers in Tokyo who handle Asia flights? What happens to them?

Don't know for sure but I bet any employees in Tokyo would be under a seperate contract. I know that is the case with DL overseas stations.


User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3380 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2081 times:



Quoting Sunking737 (Reply 10):
Doesn't NW have dispatchers in Tokyo who handle Asia flights? What happens to them?

They used to... Not sure if they still do. They also used to have their own meteorology, I think??? For some reason I thought all of that was consolidated stateside awhile ago, but I may be off on that.

Quoting DALMD88 (Reply 11):
Don't know for sure but I bet any employees in Tokyo would be under a seperate contract. I know that is the case with DL overseas stations.

Correct. Canadian employees have their own as well, for that matter.

DALMD**, can you shed some light on the specifics of the AMT integration? Was it straight DOH, or another method. I believe the meteorologists went with the former, FWIW...



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineN801NW From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 744 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2053 times:



Quote:
If approved, the mechanics groups will be integrated based on length of service for technicians in certain job classifications and on company length of service for others. For Delta mechanics, it means integrating with a smaller group including some workers who are more junior than the Delta mechanics on the whole.

This quote is from this AJC article.
http://www.ajc.com/search/content//b.../19/delta_northwest_mechanics.html


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1989 times:



Quoting NWAESC (Reply 12):
DALMD**, can you shed some light on the specifics of the AMT integration? Was it straight DOH, or another method. I believe the meteorologists went with the former, FWIW



Quoting N801NW (Reply 13):
This quote is from this AJC article.

It doesn't really give a clear answer in that AJC article.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineDALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2533 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1914 times:

Sounds to me it will be by the same system we have been using at DL. They did make one change a couple of weeks ago and I have to say it pissed me off. Tech Helpers will now be given credit for 100% of time if they move up to AMT. We fought to change it away from this policy years ago. We were sick of helpers moving up to AMT slots only when they had enough time to bid prime shifts.

For most of us the senority merge doesn't have much effect. The two work groups are seperated at different hubs. We all really doubt there will be much movement between the hubs. Even if there are changes in staffing levels, I doubt many would be willing to move.

[Edited 2008-12-20 13:52:50]

User currently offlineDispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1249 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1749 times:

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 4):
if NW reds out something they won't fly in that area. NW is highly regarded in meterology, it was one of the big factors back when UA hit turbulence and it ended up killing a couple people, however the Northwest jet in front of UA a while flew above that zone.

Yes, it is called the "Turbulence Plot" program, and NWA basically invented the forecasting of turbulence way back in the late 60s. When it comes to forecasting turbulence, the NWA metro guys are downright anal about it.

They have defined specific areas across the Rockies as areas for probable mountain wave turbulence, and those are predefined. If an area looks like the mountain wave will be a bitch on a given day, they will define it as a red mountain wave, and for NWA aircraft, that chunk of airspace will become restricted dont-even-think-of-going-thru-it airspace. When I dispatched at America West, we subscribed to the NWA TP program, and our rule was if Code 4 turb was forecast (light to occasional moderate if I remember correctly), we didnt go thru it.

Google NWA Turbulence Plot. Also, the NWA Metro manager did an overview of their Metro which I think is very good - http://wwwsoc.nii.ac.jp/msj/LINK/kouku/Tom_Fahey.pdf

Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 5):
NW has an award winning metorolgy department and I hope they can continue the tradion into DL as well.

From what I understand, the NWA TP program will continue alive and well in ATL.

Here is a picture of the areas that NWA plots for mountain wave...

http://www.avweb.com/newspics/psoderlind_tpmap.jpg

Keep in mind that they dont just concentrate on the mountainous areas for turbulence forecasting.

[Edited 2008-12-21 05:02:23]


Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
More Delta 777-200LR's posted Mon Dec 1 2008 12:02:34 by Jfk777
Delta-NWA Blends Frequent Flier Programs posted Sat Nov 22 2008 13:24:15 by Sunking737
More Delta Colors At DTW posted Wed Nov 19 2008 21:23:57 by NASCARAirforce
More Delta Connection Route Cuts posted Tue Jun 24 2008 07:00:16 by AvConsultant
More Delta In North Carolina posted Tue Jan 30 2007 18:43:25 by ERJ170
More Delta Connection Routes From SLC posted Sat Oct 14 2006 21:55:04 by 1337Delta764
Delta, NWA, United, US/HP, Who's Next? posted Wed Aug 24 2005 01:21:30 by RJ777
More Delta Woes, Bad Goes To Worse.... posted Sat Jun 25 2005 16:29:42 by Jumbojet
Even More Delta Connection From TPA & MCO posted Wed Sep 22 2004 02:26:22 by Falcon Flyer
More Delta Mainline Cuts At DFW posted Sat May 17 2003 23:43:22 by Ord