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What Next For Qantas? A Merger With CX Or MH?  
User currently offlineShanxz From Singapore, joined Apr 2006, 243 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7145 times:

Now that Qantas is no longer pursuing a merger with BA, what do you think will work best for the airline given the state of the industry, and emerging business models?

Option 1: Stay single. After all, Qantas can comfortably be on their own and be successful. But this is without taking into account what happens with the competition. This may just mean dwindling revenues in the future, and possible dominance by other major players. Moreover, the new CEO has been pretty gung-ho about getting in bed with another carrier.

There's a general consensus on another A.net discussion that QF needs an Asian partner. What what're the options then?

Option 2: Tie-up with or acquire Malaysia Airlines. I've heard that MH is already handling quite a bit of MRO for QF, and synergies may exist in call centers and other IT operations. QF may be also be attracted by the recent profits MH has been turning up, thanks to the new CEO's focus on P/L. But is that enough to warrant a full-fledged marriage?

Option 3: Merger with Cathay Pacific CX may be a good candidate for a tie-up with QF, given that they're both with Oneworld and already have a number of marketing tie-ups. How would a HKG hub for QF work out? Also, this would give QF good access to China - a fast growing market. Their routes are very complimentary too. I recently wrote an article on the topic sharing my thoughts on why CX can be a good partner.

What do you experts think? Is MH better or CX for QF? Or should they go with another Asian carrier like JAL or SQ?

P.S: This is my first post in this forum, after being an ardent reader for many years. So please be kind  Smile


Airlines are in the service business, not transport. Brand matters...
49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13739 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7142 times:

Welcome to Airliners.net Shanx  Smile


Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineShanxz From Singapore, joined Apr 2006, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7121 times:



Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 1):
Welcome to Airliners.net Shanx Smile

Thank you my friend!  Smile



Airlines are in the service business, not transport. Brand matters...
User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6597 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7061 times:

I don't think CX are interested in a merger with anyone at the moment. it wouldn't really bring many benefits to us.

User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5186 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7022 times:



Quoting Shanxz (Thread starter):
Option 3: Merger with Cathay Pacific CX may be a good candidate for a tie-up with QF,

Not an option. The 2 airlines hate each other.

QF even ude Air France for their Paris Codeshare rather than CX.


User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6990 times:

I wouldnt be suprised if MH was acquired by QF, but there are clashes as to the main hub at KUL, but maybe we might see all/most SIN flights moved to KUL. They have a very similair fleet, with the only difference the 777's, with 747's, 738's, A330's and A380's being ordered by both. It would do wonders for QF in terms of being able to expand through Asia and have a much bigger network. If you read Australian Aviation #20, you will read alot about the culural differences between SQ and QF and as to why they wouldnt merge... this can applied to MH and QF aswell. I dont see a merger very likely, but if it did happen it would be good for QF, but I dont know what MH would get out of it apart from a pacific network

User currently offlineShanxz From Singapore, joined Apr 2006, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6935 times:



Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 5):
They have a very similair fleet, with the only difference the 777's, with 747's, 738's, A330's and A380's being ordered by both.

 checkmark 

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 5):
but maybe we might see all/most SIN flights moved to KUL.

Wouldn't that be very disruptive from status quo? SIN works so well for QF because BA has a big hub there too. But nothing significant in KUL.



Airlines are in the service business, not transport. Brand matters...
User currently offlineShanxz From Singapore, joined Apr 2006, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6934 times:



Quoting ANstar (Reply 4):
QF even use Air France for their Paris Codeshare rather than CX.

Why is this the case? I believe there must be a better business case going with AF than their Oneworld partner...



Airlines are in the service business, not transport. Brand matters...
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2957 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6888 times:



Quoting Shanxz (Thread starter):
After all, Qantas can comfortably be on their own and be successful.



Quoting Shanxz (Thread starter):
Moreover, the new CEO has been pretty gung-ho about getting in bed with another carrier.

To be fair to Alan Joyce, all of these merger discussion would have been going on under Geoff Dixon and he would have inherited quite a bit of it. I think that QF will remain alone for the time being whilst continuing dialogue with Malaysian Airlines. I think MH and QF would be quite a good fit for one another however there would be a fair bit of water to go under the bridge before some sort of joint holding company could be established. In the mean time QF, under the current economic circumstances, is keeping a close watch on its International routes which have felt the largest impact from teh current crisis. Along with continuing the rollout of JQ & JQ's Asian & New Zealand strategy, taking delivery of A380's and expanding the reach of QF cargo operations they do have a fall back strategy to keep the ship going and positioned for growth once the economy picks up.

Quoting Shanxz (Thread starter):
Merger with Cathay Pacific CX may be a good candidate for a tie-up with QF, given that they're both with Oneworld and already have a number of marketing tie-ups. How would a HKG hub for QF work out?

CX would be an excellent partner for QF but the two airlines really make no bones about dis-liking one another. Hopefully this is something that Alan Joyce, given his lack of history with the QF and CX groups, can help to bridge because the two of them should certainly be co-operating much more than they do!


User currently offlineFlyglobal From Germany, joined Mar 2008, 575 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6850 times:



Quoting Shanxz (Thread starter):
Option 1: Stay single. After all, Qantas can comfortably be on their own and be successful. But this is without taking into account what happens with the competition. This may just mean dwindling revenues in the future, and possible dominance by other major players. Moreover, the new CEO has been pretty gung-ho about getting in bed with another carrier.

My opinion: If there are some mergers and aquisitions in US and in Europe, that doesn't mean all Airlines should go to find a pertner for merge or buy now!

Stay alone Qantas as long as it make sense and take opportunities when they make sense for you. Just as LH does on the other side of the planet. I can see Qantas in a merge only in the dominating role.

This are my  twocents 

Regards and best wishes for Qantas

Flyglobal


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6846 times:

Given the traditional "cozy" relationship between Australia and Maylasia I doubt youll see a MH/QF merger.

User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6597 posts, RR: 55
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6829 times:

I've never heard about CX and QF hating each other. May I ask where this info has come from? Sounds interesting.

User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2957 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6775 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 10):
Given the traditional "cozy" relationship between Australia and Maylasia I doubt youll see a MH/QF merger.

haha Since Mathair has left the scene, the tensions seems to have gone from the Australia/Malaysia relationship and I think you'll see it continue to improve. On a business level there is lots of activity between the two countries and I can see that continuing to grow. So a combination involving MH and QF isn't that far fetched and would certainly benefit both enormously and would especially benefit Malaysia by focusing much more traffic over KL.


Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 11):
I've never heard about CX and QF hating each other.

I wouldn't say they hate one another. They just generally don't co-operate or give off an appearance of wanting to co-operate with each other which they should given they are in the same alliance.


User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6597 posts, RR: 55
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6717 times:



Quoting Sydscott (Reply 12):
I wouldn't say they hate one another. They just generally don't co-operate or give off an appearance of wanting to co-operate with each other which they should given they are in the same alliance.

Oh, well for CX that includes a long list of airlines, even within Oneworld!


User currently offlineElite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2796 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6701 times:

CX would be one of the last airlines I would expect to merge... they are doing fine with their HKG hub, oneworld alliance and dominance in China with KA. They just don't seem to be needing or wanting a merge in the near future... but in the airline industry things can change very quickly.

User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4905 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6678 times:



Quoting ANstar (Reply 4):
Not an option. The 2 airlines hate each other.



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 10):
I've never heard about CX and QF hating each other. May I ask where this info has come from? Sounds interesting.

I was just about to ask the same... Please explain...

Quoting Flyglobal (Reply 9):
My opinion: If there are some mergers and aquisitions in US and in Europe, that doesn't mean all Airlines should go to find a pertner for merge or buy now!

Stay alone Qantas as long as it make sense and take opportunities when they make sense for you. Just as LH does on the other side of the planet. I can see Qantas in a merge only in the dominating role.

This are my

Very well said, very well...

QF is doing very well on its own and just course all the european and US carriers are merging to remain afloat generally doesnt mean QF should jump on the wagon too...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineMEA From Australia, joined Jan 2001, 631 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6601 times:

Why do they need to partner with an Asian carrier?

It would be interesting to see either a QF & EK or QF & EY tie-up. QF could maintain their links to traditional hubs in Europe & codeshare from either DXB or AUH to other European, Middle Eastern and African destinations.


User currently offlinePar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7115 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6571 times:

QF home market is far away from some of its larger "traditional" markets,with high fuel prices, a/c not able to make non-stop trips from some ports and long flying times it is a market which most foreign carriers would not mind doing with an alliance, code share etc.

What I think QF needs to do is to monitor its situation constantly to maintain it efficiency so as to remain the primary provider on the route, this will allow other carriers an option to work with them for residual value rather than incurring the full cost of operating the route themselves. QF's market geography may actually push for it to be an airline without an alliance, then it can offer service to many carriers, however, in this day and age, that may not be possible.


User currently offlineShanxz From Singapore, joined Apr 2006, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6505 times:



Quoting Par13del (Reply 17):
What I think QF needs to do is to monitor its situation constantly to maintain it efficiency so as to remain the primary provider on the route, this will allow other carriers an option to work with them for residual value rather than incurring the full cost of operating the route themselves.

 checkmark 

By "the route", do you mean London-Sydney or Sydney-LAX, or another route?



Airlines are in the service business, not transport. Brand matters...
User currently offlinePar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7115 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6453 times:



Quoting Shanxz (Reply 18):
By "the route", do you mean London-Sydney or Sydney-LAX, or another route?

Sydney-Lax especially, but the LHR and other European routes also, look at the big tie in with BA, it does allow BA access to the market without using their own metal, other carriers could benefit also.

Cheers


User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6098 times:



Quoting MEA (Reply 16):
QF & EY tie-up.

This would provide a great range of European destinations for QF travellers, although I am not sure as to wether EY would want to merge... are they like EK? The fleets of the two airlines are not very similair with EY having A350's and A340's and 777's.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4905 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5966 times:

I'm surprise NZ hasn't been mentioned... Considering QF has attempted to merge with NZ on numerous occasions...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5627 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5796 times:

As an outside chance, under the right conditions, don't totally overlook a QF/AA tie up of some sort.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineShanxz From Singapore, joined Apr 2006, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5650 times:



Quoting Gemuser (Reply 22):
don't totally overlook a QF/AA tie up of some sort.

 scratchchin 

Isn't AA busy with their own BA/AA pseudo-merger? And if I'm a QF customer, I wouldn't be very pleased with a QF/AA merger...the quality drop is significant. At least with BA, it was still a marriage of equals when it came to the brand experience.



Airlines are in the service business, not transport. Brand matters...
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8442 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5366 times:



Quoting ANstar (Reply 4):

Not an option. The 2 airlines hate each other.

Doesn't mean QF won't get hostile and try takeover CX and Swire group in the process.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 21):
I'm surprise NZ hasn't been mentioned... Considering QF has attempted to merge with NZ on numerous occasions...

Has been tried, and beaten down by the authorities. But the change in government across the ditch and the fact that they're in a recession may cause the authorities there to reconsider if QF were to try again.


25 Jbernie : I think that in a way comes down to pick your poison. AA is in OneWorld which gives it the head start in anything QF does in the USA, maybe QF would
26 Shanxz : Couldn't agree with you more. QF has a pretty good IFE, second to perhaps SQ/CX. Totally enjoyed it on my flight from SIN to FRA
27 Timboflier215 : Personally, I would have said BA/QF was closer in terms of on-board experience than BA/AA. However, mergers are more about cost savings and route tie
28 VHSMM : It goes further than that. Qantas and MAS Aerospace Engineering have recently signed a Memorandum of Understanding to establish a joint venture in MR
29 Shanxz : Exactly what I was trying to say too. Sorry if it didn't come out as that...
30 Shanxz : That's good for MH. I wonder what is drawing QF to MH so much... is it very low costs for the services MH is rendering? Or is it very high quality of
31 EK413 : It would be the logical way for QF to head in considering QF/NZ equipment are very similar... And to top it off NZ have are upgrading their products.
32 The Coachman : The conduct of QF and CX on the HKG routes is no doubt one indication, unless one wants to argue that it's because they want to tie up the OneWorld do
33 SQ772 : I used to think that SQ's IFE was the best around...until I experienced Qantas' IFE... I was blown away. The selection of non-mainstream movies were
34 Shanxz : Is CX doing well on HKG-SYD route? Is that because of good number of pax flying on to North America and Greater China on CX metal?
35 CX flyboy : Being part of an alliance is all part of helping your bottom line. Looking after yourself and your own profits is of course a priority until perhaps
36 Shanxz : When airlines join alliances, aren't there any sort of non-compete agreements on specific routes?
37 CHANGYOU : I do see MH is more desperate for this merging/acquisition than QF does. More so MH is badly bruised by AK/TG/CX/SQ and now EK/EY from the middle east
38 The Coachman : Granted CX flyboy, but the rumours have been flying around for years re their uneasy relationship. Sticking barbs into the side of QF isn't exactly th
39 Shanxz : Are Middle Eastern airlines even interested in tying up with other airlines? They seem to want to conquer the world only in their metal!
40 Chrisrad : What are you talking about? MH only did work on one 737 from QF in that entire time?
41 VHSMM : I would expect that JV was established to do more than take the Qantas maintenance overflow. I remember Dixon talking of sales of $15B by 2020 (or so
42 Travelhound : Wouldn't a tie up with MH also give QF great access to Europe, but with a much larger potential market making a tie up more viable.
43 Jbernie : It isnt out of the question that with QF struggling to get the new aircraft maybe they are willing to concede the extra capacity to CX in the meantim
44 TruemanQLD : Could we see a QF/JL codeshare? I know the Aus - Japanese market has been awful lately due to the Yen and the $AU but it has dropped significantly an
45 The Coachman : True to a large extent. However, it's not particularly good customer relations when you cancel several flights to HKG because you're stretched aircra
46 Post contains links Econojetter : Today the Malaysian media reported that AirAsia may be interrupting the supposed QF-MH lunch date. AirAsia + Jetstar + JetstarAsia? http://biz.thestar
47 Shanxz : Brilliant! Add in AirAsia X and you have a true Asia-Pacific budget airline! This to me makes so much more sense than QF+MH!
48 LeonJunior : I would reckon QF-MH tie up is better than Airasia-Jetstar due to Airasia already have the strong network and brand in Asia. However, at the other sid
49 Shanxz : I think the Thais are digging their own grave when it comes to making BKK as a major hub. There's not so much TG can do about a bunch of protesters c
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