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737-900 What Is Next?  
User currently offlineKU747 From Kuwait, joined Mar 2008, 377 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10018 times:

Good day to all,

The 737 started with series 100 then 200 and so on until 900.
Any idea what will be after 737-900? is it going to be series 1000???
did some search but couldn't find a thing.

Thanks,


707,727,73all,741,742,743,744,752,753,762,763,77all,300,310,319,320,321,332,333,343,346, L10,L15,DC10,MD11,SSC,VC10
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePDXCessna206 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 9995 times:

MMM I think maybe 797. That is what I have heard anyway. I think it is stupid that they start with "8" and "9" and go to "10" .

User currently offlineCanadianNorth From Canada, joined Aug 2002, 3390 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 9950 times:

I'd like to see a new next gen 737 series, something along the lines of a 797-100 through 400. But that's just me.

CanadianNorth



What could possibly go wrong?
User currently offlineKU747 From Kuwait, joined Mar 2008, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 9954 times:

I doubt they'll go for 797, this should be reserved for a total new model.


707,727,73all,741,742,743,744,752,753,762,763,77all,300,310,319,320,321,332,333,343,346, L10,L15,DC10,MD11,SSC,VC10
User currently offlinePDXCessna206 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9903 times:



Quoting KU747 (Reply 3):
I doubt they'll go for 797, this should be reserved for a total new model.

Wouldn't the Y1 be a new model?


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31098 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9860 times:
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It is unlikely we will see a new model of the 737 Next Generation Series (a "737-1000").

More likely it will just be some improvements in the basic airframes (maybe a few more tons of TOW or slightly improved engine SFCs or updated systems.

The real change will be with the replacement model, likely due for the second half of the next decade.


User currently offlineKU747 From Kuwait, joined Mar 2008, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9834 times:



Quoting PDXCessna206 (Reply 4):
Wouldn't the Y1 be a new model?

Yes, but we are still in the 700 series.



707,727,73all,741,742,743,744,752,753,762,763,77all,300,310,319,320,321,332,333,343,346, L10,L15,DC10,MD11,SSC,VC10
User currently offlineAvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2472 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9818 times:

A new design using composite construction and new gen, engines, maybe geared turbofan or even unducted fan. The 737 is a great airliner but its basic design is now maxed out and any improvement must be a replacement.

User currently offlineKU747 From Kuwait, joined Mar 2008, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9817 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
More likely it will just be some improvements in the basic airframes (maybe a few more tons of TOW or slightly improved engine SFCs or updated systems.

Agreed, but don't you think the series should be changed. ER is in use, what is next? LR? and then what? I think they have utilize all the series's so fast in a short time. Unless this model will be their last.



707,727,73all,741,742,743,744,752,753,762,763,77all,300,310,319,320,321,332,333,343,346, L10,L15,DC10,MD11,SSC,VC10
User currently offlineKU747 From Kuwait, joined Mar 2008, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9806 times:



Quoting AvObserver (Reply 7):
The 737 is a great airliner but its basic design is now maxed out and any improvement must be a replacement.

Exactly, that's what I thought.



707,727,73all,741,742,743,744,752,753,762,763,77all,300,310,319,320,321,332,333,343,346, L10,L15,DC10,MD11,SSC,VC10
User currently offlinePDXCessna206 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9778 times:

I believe it would be a good idea to keep the 737 look, but allow changes for aerodynamic efficiencies. Also, the simplicity of the aircraft keeps its costs down. So the new model should not be over-engineered with lots of little things that need attention. Like they should keep the gear bay doors off.

User currently offlineSsublyme From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 517 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9761 times:

They could always switch to single digits, ala 747-400 -> 747-8.  Smile

User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6240 posts, RR: 34
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9745 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
More likely it will just be some improvements in the basic airframes (maybe a few more tons of TOW or slightly improved engine SFCs or updated systems.

I agree... and there won't be the previous pressure that existed to develop a 737 replacement before the recession. The effects of this recession will be long felt in fundamental ways such that when it has passed business will not be as usual for several reasons:

- There will be increased domestic and international consolidation.
- Pax growth rate will be slower than previously predicted.
- Oil will not break $100 in real terms for many years.
- Carbon tax will be implemented.
- Telepresence will take-off.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
The real change will be with the replacement model, likely due for the second half of the next decade.

I believe that it will be in the second half of the second half of the next decade.  Wink

And if there is an effectuve interim 737 upgrade, replacement introduction could stretch to the first half of the follwoing decade.

Quoting KU747 (Reply 8):
Agreed, but don't you think the series should be changed. ER is in use, what is next? LR? and then what? I think they have utilize all the series's so fast in a short time. Unless this model will be their last.

I am sure that Boeing's marketing dept could come up with several two letter suffixes... like "AP", for example.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9654 times:

Honestly I could see them continuing on with the 737 designation. But not the -1000, that's just annoying, probably something like the -10 then -20 and -30 and so on. The 737 has sold so well and the numbers 737 really relate to brand recognition so unless there is a huge change, like the 767to the 787 I could see them keeping the 737 name

User currently offlineAAMDanny From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2008, 363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9415 times:

IMHO... Boeing will release aircraft in the very near future that will be based on the size of the B73-Series.

I would imagine it would consist of increased Composite materials such as the B787, I'm sure there was an article about Southwest saying something to Boeing about how they would be interested in a '787 style 737 sized aircraft'

The technology is out there to created a better performace version of the 737 series


User currently offlinePZ From Paraguay, joined Oct 2007, 171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 9212 times:



Quoting AAMDanny (Reply 14):
IMHO... Boeing will release aircraft in the very near future that will be based on the size of the B73-Series.

It depends what is "near future" for you... in the near future I still see delays with the 787 production, in the near future I still see an economic recession... so I see the 737 replacement still far away...


User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7795 times:



Quoting KU747 (Thread starter):
Any idea what will be after 737-900? is it going to be series 1000???

There isn't really any stretch left in the basic 737 airframe, and the series numbers on all Boeing aircraft denote a shrink or stretch (as opposed to range/systems enhancements, which get letters). A major upgrade to the existing frames could go either way, depending on the extent of the changes. A whole new design would likely move to something totally different (either single digit series numbers like the 787 and 747-8, or a whole new model).

Quoting AAMDanny (Reply 14):
IMHO... Boeing will release aircraft in the very near future that will be based on the size of the B73-Series.

I agree with PZ...in my concept of "very near future" Boeing's plate is full with the 787 and 747-8 (and P8-A and Wedgetail and KC-767 and...)

Quoting AAMDanny (Reply 14):
I would imagine it would consist of increased Composite materials such as the B787, I'm sure there was an article about Southwest saying something to Boeing about how they would be interested in a '787 style 737 sized aircraft'

That was a speech Herb Kelleher gave...he basically said that, if Boeing offered a 737-sized aircraft with 787 technology he'd buy them tomorrow (I think he said 250 airframes, but I can't remember offhand).

Quoting AAMDanny (Reply 14):

The technology is out there to created a better performace version of the 737 series

That's not in dispute. What's not clear is whether they can get a good enough performance improvement to pay for the development. Both Airbus and Boeing have said that they can't get enough of a performance improvement to pay for the new program.

Tom.


User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21677 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7678 times:



Quoting PDXCessna206 (Reply 10):
So the new model should not be over-engineered with lots of little things that need attention. Like they should keep the gear bay doors off.

How often to gear bay doors fail? And they do provide aerodynamic benefits. I'd expect the 737 replacement to have them.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6013 times:

I don't really think there's much debate on this. We already know Boeing has had research teams on this for 2 years now. They've been calling it the 737RS (replacement study) or Y1 (because it will be the smallest in the Yellowstone Project).

Y2 was the 787.

Y3 will be a 777/747 replacement, which is a long ways down the road.

And I think we can be pretty sure that if launched, it will become the 797. As for after that...what will the Y3 be...that's up in the air. But multiple other threads have already debated on that subject so I'll leave it alone.

As for improvements on the 737...not really sure if Boeing should have a separate team at the moment trying to do that. If they've already got a team working on a replacement, plus they need to worry about the 787 and 747-8, it's just not necessary at the time being.


User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5745 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 17):
How often to gear bay doors fail?

Not very, although they do occasionally fall off. The have two major things going against them...weight and succeptability to damage.

Quoting Mir (Reply 17):
And they do provide aerodynamic benefits.

Sort of. They do clean up the airflow over the gear, but if they don't save enough drag to pay for their own weight and cost then they actually lower the efficiency of the whole airplane.

Quoting Mir (Reply 17):
I'd expect the 737 replacement to have them.

Why? What would change on the 737 replacement that would flip the trade study around from the prior choice?

Tom.


User currently offlineEBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4251 times:

I suspect the next new 737 sized airplane will be an all new airplane. Airlines want something that offers better economy, better reliability and higher passenger appeal. I'm not sure they want something that's faster though. Longer range and greater carrying capacity seems to weigh in higher than higher speed.


Dare to dream; dream big!
User currently offlineCARST From Germany, joined Jul 2006, 822 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4217 times:

Instead of most a.netters i could imagine a new 737 derivative, but only a "small" upgrade.


The 737-900LR giving the plane the range of the 757-200 and enabling it to be used on TATL routes.

If they don't find the optimizations or place for the extra aux tanks they could consider a 1m stretch just to accommodate such a tank.

Such a 737-900LR or 737-10 could the THE aircraft for slow TATL routes with a lot of 757s getting older and older...


User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4877 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4173 times:



Quoting PZ (Reply 15):
It depends what is "near future" for you... in the near future I still see delays with the 787 production, in the near future I still see an economic recession... so I see the 737 replacement still far away...



Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 18):
As for after that...what will the Y3 be...that's up in the air.

How about these?.....  Wink

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...change-the-face-of-air-travel.html



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineCARST From Germany, joined Jul 2006, 822 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4150 times:



Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 22):
How about these?.....

Definitely not "near future" ... ^^


User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4053 times:



Quoting CARST (Reply 21):
If they don't find the optimizations or place for the extra aux tanks they could consider a 1m stretch just to accommodate such a tank.

Such a 737-900LR or 737-10 could the THE aircraft for slow TATL routes with a lot of 757s getting older and older...

Aux tanks don't hold that much...a 1m aux tank wouldn't be nearly enough to get a -900 across the pond. You'd need some sort of major expansion of the wing box or a significant improvement in SFC.

Tom.


25 CARST : From wiki, sorry to lazy to look up Boeing.com right now: 739ER: 3,200 NM (5,925 km) in 2 class layout with 2 aux. tanks 752: 3,900 NM (7,222 km) / -
26 Tdscanuck : Not really, although I haven't crunched the numbers to be sure one way or the other. The 737-900ER with two aux tanks already has a payload and cargo
27 Post contains links CARST : Ok i will try to put some numbers together to see if a stretched 737-10 with TATL range would be possible. Target: 4000nm for the 737-10 instead of t
28 CRJ900 : Boeing might be better off reopening the B757 production line instead. The 752 and 753 have proven themselves as brilliant airplanes lately and with
29 Post contains images Stitch : How much does 7250 liters of Jet A weigh in kilograms? I believe kerosene weighs around .7kg per liter so around 5t, maybe? The 737-900ER has 27,300lb
30 CARST : It seems so, but the line is closed and won't be reopened and who knows if the airlines really would buy expensive NEW 757s. The 737NG still sells li
31 Tdscanuck : This is where the calculation breaks down....fuel consumption is highly non-linear (exponential, actually) due to the extra drag of carrying the extr
32 CARST : Ok, so i stand corrected, i just hadn't the inside knowledge. But what you mean is reverse-exponential, not exponential. Just so say it mathematicall
33 WESTERN737800 : If they go with minimal changes they should just call it the 737-10, 737-20, ect. I've often wondered if they closed the 757 line too soon. I think it
34 CARST : How on earth could they speed up other operations if they would have additional work to open up an (old) new production line? So for correcting my nu
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