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The Pseudo KLM-NWA (DL) Alliance?  
User currently offlineSWISSER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5246 times:

Hi all,

I am wondering, is DL going to keep the AMS ops of NWA?
Is there anything concrete in arangements for this for the future?

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4430 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5157 times:



Quoting SWISSER (Thread starter):


I am wondering, is DL going to keep the AMS ops of NWA?
Is there anything concrete in arangements for this for the future?

Yes, and they will operated as a joint venture (if I´m not mistaken KL and DL received antißtrust immunity recently)


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5831 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5143 times:

Well, considering that AF and KL are actually just AF, and NW and DL are actually just DL, I would hazard a guess that the four (two) carriers would rationalize operations quite a bit, but still keep the partnerships and European hub operations going, to an extent.
With the Transatlantic joint revenue venture in place, it makes no sense for Delta and KLM/AF to be operating on some of the same routes. That's why we've seen Delta abandon JFK-CDG in favor of allowing AF to do the route.

That's my two cents.


User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4842 times:

since AF/KLM are basically the same airline and now DL/NW are the same airline I would think the relationship would be even closer. DL was already close with AF and NW with KLM then they received ATI and now DL and NW have merged. Now it is even easier to work with AF. It will be interesting to see how much stronger this relationship gets and what new routes will be open

User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3941 posts, RR: 27
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4746 times:

It's not a pseudo alliance... it's a REAL one!

User currently offlineSWISSER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4641 times:

Thanks for the reply's guys!
I guess also with the recent withdrawal of CO in Skyteam, DL will have more options in regards of expanding/maintaining the AMS hub as partner of KL and AF.


Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 4):
It's not a pseudo alliance... it's a REAL one!

Correct, but the old KLM-NWA branding is now absorbed in Skyteam AF/KL DL/NW etc. I guess! Maybe a sub alliance!


User currently offlineBoeing727 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 954 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3227 times:

There is the reason why DL will fly RDU-CDG and PIT-CDG...from what I understand AF/KL told DL to start service between the city pairs.

Boeing727


User currently offlineZL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days ago) and read 3072 times:

I don't know but I really hope so. AMS just can't get any better as a connecting airport.

User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9435 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days ago) and read 3020 times:



Quoting Boeing727 (Reply 6):
from what I understand AF/KL told DL to start service between the city pairs.

Its doesn't work that way.
AF/DL get together and look at the markets and then they pick what and where to fly.
but DL is told to do anything. AF owns no part of DL and cant tell them what they can and cant do.  Wink They pick together. If DL didn't think it would work they (im sure) likely have somekind of clause in the jv contract that they can tell AF to piss off.



yep.
User currently offlineBillReid From Netherlands, joined Jun 2006, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2989 times:

There are alot of assumptions been made on this thread.

First of all, NWA and KLM have a unique revenue share agreement where both airlines do not have staff on the others continent. This type of agreement does not exist between DL and AF. For example, AF uses its own sales staff, has its own staff in the UA and ISNOT handled by DL at most locations.

For the agreement to be the same as with KL-NW AF would have to eliminate all staff in North America, give all handling to DL and eliminate its website airfrance.us
At the same time DL will need to eliminate ALL staff in europe and stop bookings on its website for ALL Europeans.

I have discussed this with KL and the answer is that DL has no intention in giving up its presence in Europe as does AF have no intention of giving up its presence in the US and Canada. Additionally there is no intention to work towards a 100% revenue share on international flights to Europe between AF and DL.

In fact KL believes there is no evidence that DL will do much changing in its agreement with AF/KL before the merger has been 100% completed. Simply put it is not realistic to see NW and DL to put effort into its alliances when the number 1 priority for the next three years will be completing the merger.

What this will mean is that KL will be forced to operate as its own entity in North America, AF will continue status quo as will DL and the agreement between NW and KL will fade away. Realistically can we expect DL to take on all of KL's north American operations before it has merged NW-DL operations? Do we expect to be able to book KL flights on Delta.com? I don't think so.

KL will become a new standalone entity in North America as a result of the NW-DL merger.



Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2443 times:



Quoting BillReid (Reply 9):
KL will become a new standalone entity in North America as a result of the NW-DL merger.

You seem quite convinced.
What are your sources?


User currently offlineSWISSER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2039 times:



Quoting BillReid (Reply 9):
AF will continue status quo as will DL and the agreement between NW and KL will fade away.

Indeed, logic would suggest such a thing...
I always found the co-operation between KL and NW very unique and trend setting but now things are so complicated and are becoming out dated in the new partnerships/alliances.
Imagine KL doing AMS-DTW-AMS and only DL doing ATL-AMS-ATL...

It still could go both ways then?


User currently offlineBillReid From Netherlands, joined Jun 2006, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1941 times:



Quoting PHKLM (Reply 10):
You seem quite convinced.
What are your sources?

I have spoken with people at SPL and at KL and they feel confident KL is not very high on the DL priority list. It is only logical that DL get its house in order and the unique relationship between NWA and KLM fall by the wayside.

I guess the real question is whether it is reasonable to expect DL to take over ALL North American operations for AF and KL in 11 months when NW fades away into oblivion. Will AF/KL tale over all European ops for DL/NW as well in reciprocation?
And will DL/NW enter into an agreement with KL/AF for 100% revenue sharing on all trans-atlantic flights within a year?

If the answer is NO to any of these questions then KL has two choices
1. Cede 75% of its North American to DL operations and go into a major decline.
or
2. Restart North American ops including all operational phases with sales and web sales and call center.

An example of the threat to KL was that SPL spent years working on PIT-AMS flights. NW finally agreed, however the flight was implemented by DL as PIT-CDG with codeshare between AF and DL.
NW/KL fell by the wayside.

You chose the logical option?



Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1818 times:



Quoting BillReid (Reply 12):
And will DL/NW enter into an agreement with KL/AF for 100% revenue sharing on all trans-atlantic flights within a year?

Rome wasn't build in a day, as wasn't the alliance between KLM and NWA...


User currently offlineSWISSER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1762 times:



Quoting PHKLM (Reply 13):
Rome wasn't build in a day, as wasn't the alliance between KLM and NWA...

But Rome fell pretty quickly as well...Or in this case Rome has been taken over by something bigger...


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