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CO Flight 1404 Off Runway At DEN - Part 2  
User currently onlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4652 posts, RR: 69
Posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 36320 times:

This is a continuation of the following archived thread


on the incident with Continental flight 1404 at Denver's international airport on Saturday evening.

208 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineKBUF From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 592 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 36411 times:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ben Remy - High Alpha Photography

Pic of the crashed a/c in question.

Hello w/o.   

[Edited 2008-12-21 21:25:42]

"Starting today, the Buffalo Sabres' reason for existence will be to win a Stanley Cup."-Terry Pegula, February 22, 2011
User currently offlineTiger119 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1919 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 36211 times:

Looking at the photo, it is labeled as a 735. I did not know they installed winglets on 735s?


Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
User currently offlineDingDong From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 36203 times:

Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 2):
Looking at the photo, it is labeled as a 735. I did not know they installed winglets on 735s?

Yep. CO did.

DingDong, honey, please answer the doorbell!
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 6265 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 36181 times:

Great. Two references to Saudia 163. Both wrong.

This was the flight where the captain was arguably the only even-remotely-competent person in the cockpit; the f/o was completely unable to support him during the emergency landing and evaluation of the potential fire situation due to virtually no experience in-type and the f/e, who was thought to be dyslexic, couldn't find various procedures in the manual. The captain landed the plane himself and tried to evaluate whether there was a fire without briefing the crew for evacuation. One the one hand, this accident was a model of CRM failure. On the other hand, it seemed like the Captain had good reason to try to do everything himself. But, in a command environment very different from US airlines, he hesitated to order an evacuation after successfully executing an emergency landing, and by then there was massive fire throughout the aircraft.

The issue wasn't that passengers waited while the crew went through the checklist, it was that the crew DIDN'T go through the checklist.

Passengers were doubtless screaming to get off the a/c and willing to pull emergency exists open even with the engines not shut down. However, the crew did not depressurize the aircraft and the doors henceforth could not be opened.

This was widely-considered to be a CRM issue. I think it was more of a training, competence, and *policies* issue.

Clearly, nothing to do with the accident being discussed here.

User currently offlineRampkontroler From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 859 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 36005 times:

Quote from previous locked thread:

"The aircraft is so totally destroyed it reminds me of how that Air Canada DC-9 looked in CLE after the firey emergency landing in the 80's."

Actually, just for accuracy, that unfortunate incident happened at Cincinnati / CVG:



User currently offlineScrubbsYWG From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1496 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 35986 times:

assuming that twitter account is real, that is an interesting 21st century account of the incident!

User currently offline727forever From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 798 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 35837 times:

WSJ is now reporting that it was an aborted takeoff with a braking malfunction. That would definately do it.


I am also glad to see that Robert Sumwalt has been sent to investigate by the NTSB. I did safety work with Robert several years ago and can say that he is top shelf and will do a great job working with the team to find the answers to not only what happened but how. We should know more soon.


[Edited 2008-12-21 22:55:50]

User currently offlineDingDong From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 35784 times:

What caused the aborted takeoff?

DingDong, honey, please answer the doorbell!
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2730 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 35702 times:

Very fortunate that this incident did not result in a more tragic outcome.

Hats off to the crew for executing their emergency responsibilities as they are trained. Their response was elemental to a successful evacuation.

Edited to add link to image source:


[Edited 2008-12-21 23:37:40]

User currently offlineTbanger From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 266 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 35510 times:

(QUOTE from previous thread)

The 301 poor souls on board this aircraft waited while the crew went through the checklist.

I'll take my chances.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 4):
Great. Two references to Saudia 163. Both wrong.

Thankyou Wjcandee...well said.
Things are different nowadays. The crew are trained to use their head more. Thanks to CRM the hosty is allowed to use their own brain as the Captain isn't always right.....or he could be incapacitated and the evacuation is commanded by those still standing. Hindsight might not be any use to those who perished in the past but it goes a long way in helping those in the future.

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 9):
Hats off to the crew for executing their emergency responsibilities as they are trained. Their response was elemental to a successful evacuation.

I'll certainly make a toast to that crew this Chrissy.....and if any of you are reading this...BLOODY WELL DONE from OZ.

User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6291 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 35222 times:

It's too early to call anyone a hero or a villain, but I will say that it's amazing that no one was killed. So, for that, I can say GOOD JOB CABIN CREW!!

User currently offlinePBIflyguy From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 248 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 34436 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 9):
Hats off to the crew for executing their emergency responsibilities as they are trained. Their response was elemental to a successful evacuation.

AMEN! and don't forget there were only 3 FA's on board that ship. They moved 107 people to safety VERY quickly.

User currently offlineB707forever From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 34246 times:

I was surprised to see the starboard doors open consiedring the fire was clearly on that side of the plan. That will be interesting to read about in the final report. I couldn't tell if a passenger had opened the starboard emergency window over the wing from the picture. That would have been really bad if they did. This is the first picture of the starboard side which shows, for the first time, that the cabin was apparently engulfed in flames. You can't tell that from the port side shots.

Again, thank God everyone got out. Kudos to the crew though for getting everyone out and to Continental for how they're handling, from what I'm reading, the aftermath. Having worked at an airline during a crash, in this case where lives were lost, it's a terrible thing for staff. It seems CO is doing as good a job as can be expected. I look forward to reading the full report.

User currently offlineMemphis From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 33873 times:

from a standpint of salvage, do you think it will be possible to salvage the winglets?

User currently offlineFlyingfox27 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2007, 425 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 33608 times:

I wonder if they will leave it there like they did with G-YMMM at LHR, nearly a year now!

User currently offlineWarren747sp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1210 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 33401 times:

The number 1404 in Chinese language means "Single death, zero death".
Good thing no one perished. maybe they should change the flight number.

User currently offlineCOFreqFlyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 397 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 33231 times:

Quoting B707forever (Reply 13):
I was surprised to see the starboard doors open consiedring the fire was clearly on that side of the plan. That will be interesting to read about in the final report.

PAX were completely evacuated by the time the fire created what you see in the image you referenced.

The Proud Bird with the Golden Tail
User currently offlineAndrewC75 From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 91 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 33151 times:

Quoting Memphis (Reply 14):
from a standpint of salvage, do you think it will be possible to salvage the winglets?

I would assume that when any hull is written off they part it out and salvage what they can, including structural components, instruments, windows, etc.

User currently offlineSLCguy From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 32597 times:

Wow, as reported the aircraft came to rest near the fire station, but if you look at the news helicopter videos, if it had come off the runway slightly earlier or at a bit more angle on it's cross country adventure (nearly 3000') it would have come right thru the front door of the fire station with disasterous results not only the people on the plane but the firefighters in the station. As it was the plane missed the station by about 200 ft. A lot of lucky people! Hoping for a quick recovery for those who were injured.

User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4938 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 32483 times:

the WSJ Article quotes a pax discussing seeing the fire from inside the aircraft during the evacuation, I'm very curious as to how the close proximity to the ARFF station may have saved lives. The FAA required response time is no more than 3 minutes, but in this case the aircraft was only 200 yds away, and may have been just in time to prevent an explosion (see Air China 737-800)

Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineFsnuffer From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 282 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 32455 times:

I have seen some reports of passengers reporting a loud bang shortly before the aircraft veered off the runway and I thought of a compressor stall. Doing some “google” research, there are reports that a large crosswind can cause a compressor stall. For all you pilots out there, is this something you are normally concerned with during high crosswind takeoffs or is this just an urban legend?



User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 32294 times:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 20):
The FAA required response time is no more than 3 minutes, but in this case the aircraft was only 200 yds away, and may have been just in time to prevent an explosion (see Air China 737-800)

I admit not having read all the responses to this accident but first impressions :

I think in this case it didn't really matter. Everyone evacuated the aircraft and cleared it before the rescue teams arrived. Looking at the nature of this crash I think what helped :

- Gliding through cold snow iso dry ground absorbing a lot of the V2 energy
- The aircraft kept on course allowing the structure to absorb energy as designed for
- The crew & passengers apparently doing a text book evacuation
- The fuselage resisting the fire long enough for the aircraft to be evacuated.

Anyway I have the feeling we got away here lucky !   

photo: http://www.telegraph.co.uk

[Edited 2008-12-22 07:27:09]

User currently offlineSLCguy From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 32068 times:

Don't think a compressor stall would cause the aircraft the aircraft to veer off. But the strong gusting crosswing could cause a loss of directional control and once the aircraft left the runway and safety area damage to the engine resulting in a fire could result. The passengers comments about suddenly getting a bumpy ride and maybe even getting airborne fit with the running off the runway, the land at DIA is not as flat as it looks, the aircraft was was probalby bouncing along the terrain and getting lauched a few times.

User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17668 posts, RR: 65
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 31974 times:

Quoting Warren747sp (Reply 16):
The number 1404 in Chinese language means "Single death, zero death".
Good thing no one perished. maybe they should change the flight number.

I'm not an expert but it doesn't quite "mean" that. The word for the number 4 sounds like the word for death. The characters are different. So it can be interpreted as that if you are superstitious.

It's actually "worse", since 14 can be interpreted as "want to die" in Mandarin and "certainly die" in Cantonese.

But yes, a Chinese airline would probably change the flight number.

Quoting Fsnuffer (Reply 21):
Doing some “google” research, there are reports that a large crosswind can cause a compressor stall. For all you pilots out there, is this something you are normally concerned with during high crosswind takeoffs or is this just an urban legend?

Not that I'm a pilot, but certainly it is possible. That's one reason why there are crosswind limits.

"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
25 SLCguy : Sorry about the spelling. Those two words should be crosswind and launched.
26 727forever : It is not urban legend but rare in today's modern Hi-Bypass Turbofan engines. Older low bypass, for todays standard, and straight turbojet engines we
27 Labswalker : Think of this, next time you want to ignore the safety briefing before departure! My hat is off to that crew for the outstanding job they did to evacu
28 Slider : Typically after an incident/accident flight, that specific flight number is retired permanently.
29 Sandyb123 : Could it have been as simple as a double-right tire blow-out followed by reduced visibility resulting in veering off the runway? That's the first tim
30 DL752 : I am very glad everyone evacuated and an absolute amazing job to the crew and passengers!! I couldn't imagine how scary and hard that must have been!
31 SlimShady : They will try to salvage everything they can. as long as it can be repaired and re-certified. Looking at this, a few things come to mind... Avionics,
32 Keesje : " target=_blank>http://www.telegraph.co.uk I think its clear from this picture the engines broke off when the aircraft crossed the road. Probably its
33 N6168E : I'm not sure about the LH engine (The RH engine is still attached) as is it in front of the wreckage, but I see wheel tracks before the road and a wi
34 Post contains images Keesje : Maybe the LH main lDG broke of shortly after crossing the first road.. tracks could indicate so.. Anyway, will have a better look later on.
35 Contrails : After seeing the starboard side of the aircraft I have to say that a miracle happened at DEN Saturday night. The difference in the 2 sides is like the
36 D L X : I agree. I see wheel tracks before the first road, a dropoff where there are no tracks (probably a second or less of being airborne), wheel tracks fo
37 Mcdu : Do you believe everyone on this aircraft paid close attention to the safety briefing on this flight?
38 Wjcandee : None. The Fire Department was driving all over the airport looking for the plane before they finally found it. However, it was a convenient place to
39 Litz : Maybe those winglets, or rudder parts ... I doubt they will recover much from the interior - the heat was intense enough that the overhead bins were
40 EXCOASA1982 : I bet the 2 commuting FAs onboard assisted as well.
41 D L X : No, emphatically. Reports now say that many passengers went up into the overhead bins to retrieve their luggage before taking it down the slides. I t
42 AndrewUber : One thing I found interesting (and IRRITATING) was an article on MSNBC yesterday, which one passenger gave his account of the accident. His story was
43 SlimShady : ...like the orange glow of the fire was difficult to spot at night.. (rolling eyes)...
44 Barney Captain : We were there that night. We landed approximately 30 minutes prior to the accident with standard DEN winds and light to moderate chop in the descent.
45 Smcmac32msn : What do you propose reduced their visibility??? The plane is no more than 20* off the angle of the runway, on what looks to be a slight downhill. If
46 September11 : I am amazed by the very long tire skidmarks depicted in these photos.
47 Ultrapig : Luggage retrieval in emergency. I'v e always wondered what I'd do in this case if I saw people tryign to get luggage. Yell at them? Ignore them? Crew
48 FrmrCAPCADET : Perhaps a law that those found with bags after an emergency evacuation lose any rights to damages, and that it be either a serious misdemeanor, or fel
49 Wjcandee : Nope. That was some stupidity invented by someone (perhaps a reporter) who saw the fire station near the plane and made an "ass" by "ass"uming. The F
50 Wjcandee : You know, if you were standing right in front of me, I'm pretty confident you wouldn't have the...um...chutzhpah to make a comment like this. However
51 Spacecadet : Highly doubt it. Cathay Pacific, for example, has flight numbers 1427, 1411, 104, 1419, 1104, 7140, 604, 410, 1420, 400, 1428, and I could go on and
52 TVNWZ : It is called panic. People react in various ways. They might freeze. They might scream. They may act in all sorts of nonsensical and/or illogical way
53 Viscount724 : For many years CP Air's flight numbers YVR-NRT-HKG were 401/402 (westbound/eastbound). A flight that turned around at NRT was 403/404. In later years
54 CO777ER : Agreed. I highly doubt the first thing in his mind was to ensure that the guy behind him made it off. He was worried about himself and family.
55 RL757PVD : Any confusion would be result of ATC, as its the ATC crash phone that notifies ARFF 1) Alert level ( typically3 stages ranging from minor problem, po
56 Post contains links Rikkus67 : Spacecadet had this to say in reply #158 of the first thread: "...Let's see, an airplane on fire off the runway, its engine and landing gear ripped of
57 EMBQA : There is a video on YouTube taken after an accident of people calmly open the overhead bins with the FA's screaming in the background to get off the
58 EWRCabincrew : First, the crew did a phenomenal job. It is what we are trained for and dread ever happens. They did fantastic. As for people getting their items out
59 Tommy767 : I can't believe how decrepit that 735 looks in the aftermath. Some serious props to the crew on flight 1404 for getting everyone off the plane safely.
60 Post contains images Viscount724 : As a sidenote, that AC DC-9 wasn't totally destroyed. The wings were salvaged and the right wing later used to repair an Ozark DC-9 that struck a sno
61 Airtechy : I find it sorta hard to understand how the crew in the firehouse (I assume it was manned) failed to hear an airplane with its gear being ripped off on
62 EMBQA : What makes the winglets anymore important then anything else..? Your assuming the plane was on fire long before the fire dept found it. Given the fac
63 RL757PVD : Really makes you think twice about exiting over-wing!
64 Fiveholer : Was told by one of our captains that they were "about a million apiece" Dunno. Danny
65 Post contains links and images Keesje : It looks like the left hand engine was dragged under the aircraft wing after it broke off. Luckely it continued to glide a bit after the aircraft came
66 EWRCabincrew : Always, always, always assess conditions. If the fire is too hot, the smoke is too thick or the water is too deep....do not use. It doesn't get any m
67 CODC10 : Usually the series of commands flight attendants are trained to say includes "LEAVE EVERYTHING" to discourage going to overhead bins and "EXIT THIS W
68 Spacecadet : And not to excuse it but maybe to further explain it, the reality is a lot of people *do* have basically their entire lives entwined in their possess
69 Phatfarmlines : According to passenger accounts, the overwing exit on the starboard side was unusable due to fire present, otherwise you would have had a repeat of C
70 Dfanucci : As a former Firefighter, I'd like to thank you for taking the time to inform that individual. Enroute to a scene there is a ton of information you ar
71 Post contains links United1 : I haven't seen this mentioned yet but plane was photographed having a bit of a maintenance issue in EWR back in 2004, its probably a different engine
72 EMBQA : Starboard...?? This is aviation, not boats.. almost all of use left and right. I've been doing this 15 years and have never seen or heard it used exc
73 Micstatic : Actually much of aviation is derived from nautical origins. Starboard is a widely used term.
74 Post contains images EMBQA : So the radome the bow, the tail the stern..?  Maybe...but in all those years I've never once heard it used... except on here, and then by non aviati
75 Micstatic : I hear you. Hey it's not that bad. What really kills me is when people say "finals" instead of "final"
76 United1 : Is that what that was? The caption made it sound like some engine issue, thanks for the heads up.
77 EMBQA : Oh yea..... For me its non-aviation types trying to be 'cool' and miss use the terms and information... We can chat all we want about this, nano pick
78 Philhyde : " target=_blank>http://www.airliners.net/photo/Conti...854/M Except, that isn't the plane that crashed as CO1404.
79 Dutchflyboi : Really? We are trained to say Aircraft Left and Aircraft Right. Meaning facing the cockpit your left is A/C left and your right is A/C Right, this is
80 JBLUA320 : " target=_blank>http://www.airliners.net/photo/Conti...854/M This is ship 625. I believe the aircraft involved with 1404 is 611. Kudos to the crew! J
81 Cptkrell : If any of you are close to a TV, FOX news has a "live" update currently being broadcasrt by NTSB. regards...jack
82 Smeg : Strange, because on my ATPL's and subsequent training, we used port and starboard in many cases - Especially when referring to engines. Again, this w
83 Dutchflyboi : Going through initial training with New York Air and recurrent training for the last 22 years with CO, we never have used port and starboard, it has
84 United1 : Airliners.net strikes again I used the "show me photos of the same aircraft" option at the bottom of the crash photo and that photo came up....never
85 IAHcsr : ... The craft in the photo is Ship 625... 1404 was Ship 611 ...
86 United1 : thanks
87 Slider : I’ve heard both, but the nautical heritage is clear- there’s a reason port side on the plane is also the same as on a sailing ship. It’s unambi
88 Alias1024 : So far the media seems to be locked in on two theories for the cause of this: 1) Right engine failed (they usually say "exploded") and this caused a l
89 Hiflyer : Interesting side note....the FDR/CVR are being read two days after the incident per published reports.....however any data from the A320 test flight i
90 Smeg : Only theory that I have on this (and it is only my theory with no base on fact!) is that if there was a strong gust from the left that caused the rig
91 F9Animal : I have not seen any pics of debris on the runway. Anyone know if there was debris on the runway or pics of it? I have heard and read that there was s
92 Alias1024 : I would think that the drag from the wingtip in the ground would overcome the weathervane effect. Unlikely, but certainly a possibility.
93 DUALRATED : As a firefighter and as a pilot, I would like to see the interior to see how it made out. in particular how bad the smoke was in the cabin. It does no
94 Starlionblue : Flight numbers are sometimes retired, but by no means always. The public will have forgotten the number next week anyway. People panic and do irratio
95 Galaxy5007 : Since everyone else is continuing to speculate on the crash, I might as well put my two cents in. From what I gathered, the right engine was flaming p
96 Ikramerica : Nope. But when something is on fire, the instinct of most people is to get out as quickly as possible. Great, one more law that will never see a pros
97 Laxboeingman : How did this happen? Could it have been the airplane? Was there something on the runway? Did it even get off the ground? Was it that the runway was to
98 Labswalker : Galaxy, There is an engine driven Hyd pump per side, and an electric Hyd pump powered by the opposite side. There is also a brake accumulator to hold
99 Spacecadet : CNN is now speculating that a "locked wheel" could have caused the crash - is such a thing possible?
100 EMBQA : yea... it can happen
101 B707forever : My point is that upon stopping the right side was on fire and I'm surprised that the F/As opened those doors, unless they didn't see the fire. I'll s
102 Galaxy5007 : Rog on the systems. The electric pump would be useless however if there is no fluid in the system. As I suggested, if the engine pump gave out, or a
103 FrmrCAPCADET : So how are we going to persuade people not to take their luggage with them? It seems to me this is a piece of slack which people need to be condition
104 727forever : Well, you do that. We all would like to know what happened and in due time we will start receiving information from the NTSB. With those winds it wou
105 Cptspeaking : No offense, but your descriptions and terms don't seem consistent with ATP levels... The runway is not a tarmac, nor do the TIRES provide "mechanical
106 Galaxy5007 : From what the passengers reports were, the fire was contained to the engine only at first. Shortly after, the fire spread inboard of the engine as fu
107 Spacecadet : Ditching checked baggage fees would be a start. The law of unintended consequences applies here.
108 Galaxy5007 : For some reason, it quoted myself...I was quoting the response from B707forever.
109 FLY2HMO : I know this particular ship # very, very well. And I'm almost certain with what exactly happened to it. And it's something nobody has brought up yet.
110 Galaxy5007 : If thats all you can say, why bother posting!
111 Ozark1 : When you watch videos of the plane. Checkout the orange straps that are over the viewing windows on the doors. They were put on planes so that agents
112 Okie : Without the information on the FDR , there is no real data to determine what the initiating event was. We just do not have any way of determining if t
113 Viscount724 : Agree. AA still uses flight number AA1 which they've used for a JFK-LAX nonstop since the 1950s. When AA1 was a 707 in 1962 it crashed soon after tak
114 Max Q : Port and Starboard are Nautical terms ! it is silly amd pretentious to use them in aviation (unless you are flying off a Carrier perhaps) Everything e
115 EwRkId : i need help, i flew a 737-500 on CO EWR-ORD with winglets back on 7/28/08 it was CO1185 i am convinced that it was this aircraft that crashed but im n
116 Galaxy5007 : The USAF uses aircraft left, aircraft right. I never heard of the starboard/port side on planes till here. Its always like that, anytime an incident
117 Starlionblue : I don't think it is a solvable problem. Crashes happen so seldom. The vast majority of the flying public is unlikely to ever be in an emergency, let
118 Brick : BTS statistics from July 28 say N33608 was used on your flight.
119 AndrewUber : If you lost a loved one in a crash, and found out they burned up while trying to evacuate, and then you see that pax in front of them in line managed
120 Starlionblue : An example of one. You reacted correctly. Other people may not. I'm not saying they acted correctly, or that they should have sympathy. They acted wr
121 Post contains links Hiflyer : CNN has a report on the NTSB briefing last night.... http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/23/ntsb.colorado.plane/index.html Full article lot longer but here
122 Ocracoke : I wonder what would cause CNN to think like this? If I were paddling across a lake in my canoe, and stuck and held a big fat oar into the water ("loc
123 Wjcandee : The problem is not that they imperil themselves. That's their perogative, although their family will doubtless sue for wrongful death anyway. The pro
124 Wjcandee : Right on. As CNN found out. Whatever "expert" they had consulted as a basis for their pure speculation that it was a "brake problem" or "wheel proble
125 N104UA : I have always heard of people using Port and Starboard because like a ship you might no be facing the way the plane is moving and it makes perfect se
126 Smeg : No offence taken! I was not referring to the runway as "a tarmac". I was referring to the surface of that runway and that the fact that the wheels ma
127 Hiflyer : Re maritime terms in the airlines....Clipper Captain Steward ring a bell here? Yes...newer and domestic when started carriers probably do not have nau
128 Starlionblue : Hey, I agree with you. I didn't say what they were doing was reasonable, just that it is about the level of rationality I would expect from a random
129 Wjcandee : Starlion, I agree we agree. I was just venting about being at the mercy of others who would get THEIR bag and thereby kill me. I watched live/raw vide
130 Starlionblue : I hear you. It's a scary thought. Luckily it is not often these situations occur. They're not called "sheeple" for nothing. But I digress...
131 OPNLguy : And you shouldn't, and most likely won't. Both are parties to the NTSB investigation, and the NTSB is charged with initiating all statements. Should
132 Acabgd : Well give us a hint at least, so we can speculate some more!
133 Robffm2 : In all the years flying I've been asked only once by the f/a whether I would be willing and feel able to operate the emergency exit. It was on a LX f
134 Post contains links Rkmcswain : Apparently, 41 seconds into "taxiing", there was a "sudden bumping and rattling" - which was enough to cause the pilot to abort the takeoff.... By LIS
135 Post contains images OPNLguy : Amazing that the media interprets Sumwalt's "41 seconds after the brakes were released" as a taxiing event, and not the commencement of the takeoff e
136 Post contains links Pianos101 : Anyone read this junk: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/new...gers-raise-rear-turbine-questions/ The rear turbine??? As in the APU, that would have no
137 D L X : I think the raised roads and runways which were designed to prevent snow drifts from coming onto them may have actually exacerbated this accident. Not
138 EMBQA : How about the rest of what they report....? Do we take all that for granted....??
139 Flyxjt : I am not familiar with the nose wheel steering system on the 737, but considering the above, it could possibly be the culprit. I know of a few aircra
140 Pianos101 : Which part? about the stuck wheel that someone else said CNN reported. I don't have a problem with them reporting the FACTS, such as an NTSB press co
141 GRIVely : I learned to fly gliders at RAF Dishforth in England and the pilots I flew with always used Port and Starboard when discussing aircraft. Earlier when
142 BuyantUkhaa : Isn't 41 seconds a lot? Typical take-off on a 737/A32X lasts about 30 secs from applying power to wheels off ground, in my experience. I know Denver
143 MSYtristar : Full load out of high altitude Denver on a mid range flight, around 850 miles...I'd say the plane could easily be on the ground at the 41 second mark
144 EMBQA : What the media reports in general.....What makes you think they only screw up or make up stuff about aviation....?
145 RL757PVD : Um is it just me or does a logical explanation seems to be 41 seconds after starting the takeoff roll = aircraft leaving the runway = bumping and ratt
146 Pianos101 : Ohhh i was confused about what you said... Yeah I take anything they say with a grain of salt. Maybe it's because I'm in the aerospace industry that
147 Runga08 : If you've never been on the tarmac at DEN, you wouldn't know the number of hills around the airport and IN the airport. Sometimes a/c hide behind the
148 Galaxy5007 : I've always known the term tarmac as the flightline, not the runway.... Be mad at speculation all you want, the news media is always going to speculat
149 Cptspeaking : Thank you! I was wondering if anybody else would find this a little long...especially for them only running off the runway 2000 feet from the thresho
150 Post contains links Spacecadet : Read the link at the bottom of the post. There's a more likely explanation. Could be possible, however I think nose wheel steering switches off at so
151 IAHERJ : Acceleration in DEN is considerably slower than at other airports. That is why the runways are so long. I remember a few months ago flying the Tampa B
152 Post contains links Labswalker : Denver paper today reports the aircraft was evacuated left side only. The firefighters said they opened the exits on the right side. The crew did the
153 Tsra : I do not like speculate on aircraft accidents but for what it is worth, this is what has been on my mind from the beginning.
154 TTailSteve : do we know anything about the cockpit crew? someone mentioned earlier "shades" of US5050. however, in the 5050 accident i believe it was the FOs first
155 DODCFR : You can tell that at least the rear exit door on the right side of the aircraft was opened after the fire was extinguished because the inside of the
156 Cptspeaking : Wow, I hadn't heard of that one before...and you're right, it does sound very very similar... Interesting...
157 Slider : You really hit on an outstanding point--They had a very expedited and outstanding evacuation from all accounts, but just imagine if the flashover hit
158 RL757PVD : From the Denver post article it took 41 seconds to go 2,650 ft??? Im guessing the rubber starting at those points on the runway would be consistent wi
159 727forever : Nosewheel steering on Boeings stays active all of the time unless the ground crew has the nosewheel steering bypass pin installed. This pin is what t
160 BuyantUkhaa : That sounds more plausible indeed.
161 Spacecadet : I wasn't referring to the level of pilot experience but to the mechanical mechanism for the crash itself, ie. the possibility that there was some sor
162 Cptspeaking : Gee, I wish I'd thought of that I knew I heard it somewhere before
163 FLY2HMO : Well due to (future) job security concerns I must keep my trap shut. But I will say that after my post others have made posts that seem to be going i
164 Viscount724 : In my experience that is now a standard practice, at least in Europe. I've been on 6 KL and BA intra-Europe flights in the past month and was seated
165 Post contains links Litz : " target=_blank>http://www.denverpost.com/newsheadli...92044 The slideshow linked in that article shows the damage very closely : http://photos.denve
166 RL757PVD : From the newsweek article: sounds like the steering issue thats been discussed
167 Argonaut : Varies a bit according to culture---I don't think I've ever heard it in 17 years of living in the US, but I have in the UK. At least port/starboard h
168 Dragon6172 : Passengers do not practice leaving an aircraft during an emergency, they are just told how to do it. When an actual emergency happens, some remain ca
169 Starlionblue : For most pix, I think it's not so much selfishness as confusion. Or as Dragon6172 puts it: Again I say: Do not judge these people so harshly unless y
170 AT : The most important thing is that everyone got out alive. How many 735s does Continental have in its fleet currently? I flew in one a couple years ago
171 Musapapaya : I can confirm that has been the case on all the 4 flights in the past week with LX.
172 Post contains images DiscoverCSG : Seeing how the entire left side is burned off, a wing is severed, one engine is fried and the other detached, the landing gear sheared off, the fusel
173 Post contains links 2H4 : I wonder if something like this might have happened. 2H4
174 Max Q : No one working professionaly in Aviation uses 'Port and Starboard' there is no confusion between right and left, because, as already stated we use Air
175 Post contains links Smcmac32msn : Exactly...... here's the RIGHT side of the aircraft. http://photos.denverpost.com/photopr...galleryV6.html#id=album-4267&num=2
176 Flyboy7974 : I've been watching this closely and quietly because just amazed how lucky all truly were. Up in response #34, I've tried to copy/paste but dont know
177 Post contains images Osiris30 : I've always wondered what the thoughts of flight crews were on this matter. I usually take that seat more for the fact that I trust myself to act app
178 Wjcandee : 41 secs after brake release doesnt mean 41 secs after takeoff power applied...
179 727forever : Possible but if the crew in 2000 was able to keep the airplane on the runway I would think that this one would have had a better shot. However, with
180 Lincoln : And that training seemed to work quite well for your colleagues! If there's ever a situation where I find myself needing to exit the aircraft through
181 Pilotaydin : thank god they didn't veer further left and hit that building!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
182 DiscoverCSG : Mea culpa ... it was on MY left in most of the early pictures, and I went for it. That, and I've always had a left/right issue.
183 Petteri : I wonder what this scene would look like if this accident had occurred at some other airports without the vast openness that DEN had. I shudder to th
184 Smcmac32msn : Put your hands out..... which one makes an "L" (with the thumb/pointer)... it won't change
185 Wjcandee : Good post. I don't know whether I'd say "most", but certainly a significant portion; I guess it's a question of whether we're talking about catastrop
186 Spacecadet : Or once the airplane became "airborne" as it went over the berm, at which time a rudder deflection wouldn't cause a continuation of the turn, it woul
187 PlanesNTrains : I thought that it had been stated that the engines were functioning normally until the point that the crew performed an abort and exited the runway.
188 Brick : RE: Photo in reply 34 Shouldn't there be three tracks showing where the aircraft immediately left the runway? I see two tracks from the main landing g
189 Smcmac32msn : You're looking at it wrong. Look how narrow the tracks are as it departed the turn from the runway vs. after the first road/taxiway. My guess is eith
190 Galaxy5007 : I've never heard of that, but okay. I figured I'd say though that C-5A 68-0228 crashed right after take off due to #4 engines reverser deploying in f
191 Osiris30 : But I don't see anything that looks like sideslip (from what I can see from the admittedly crappy photos). At this point who knows, but hopefully the
192 Hiflyer : Got to remember that the aircraft track has a large vertical component to it. The aircraft basically rolled down a hill from the runway..across a smal
193 Osiris30 : Add good point, I didn't even think to look for any elevation maps of the area.
194 Spacecadet : You're confusing two different things. We're not talking about a reverser deploying in flight. We're talking about a reverser deploying on the ground
195 2H4 : I think you meant to type "as the airplane lost speed", no? 2H4
196 Maverick623 : But if both engines were still producing takeoff thrust, a single reverser deployment would look suspiciously like what CO 1404 did. There was an HP
197 Starglider : The two tracks you see as the aircraft departed the runway are definitely the main gear tracks and perhaps the nose gear paralleled the inside left m
198 CALMSP : to many replies to search through..................... new flight number is in teh system. replaed with flight 1804.
199 Dragon6172 : Any possibility of the old rudder actuator hard-over condition? If you started your takeoff roll with the rudder hard to the left you would gradually
200 Post contains links Adam1115 : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Airlines_Flight_1404
201 HAWK21M : Wasn't that tackled by an AD? regds MEL.
202 Spacecadet : Well first, if you read the accident report from that HP flight, you'll notice that the entire reason the #1 thrust reverser was deactivated was that
203 Okie : I still waiting for the NTSB to look under the nose before I draw any conclusions. To the best of may knowledge the 37 is a pretty simple system for n
204 Brick : The local media in Denver is reporting today that the aircraft will be moved from its current location on Thursday, which is New Year's Day. Special c
205 Hiflyer : Nor does it seem any progress or reports on findings by the NTSB since prior to Xmas...including any interviews with the Captain who has been release
206 AirNZ : Aren't you both being a little bit on the dramatic side? No, I'm not condoning his particular actions but it is/was a natural aspect of human behavio
207 EWRCabincrew : You'd like to think so. Part of our commands we yell is "LEAVE EVERYTHING!". Do people listen? Who is to say. Some will, some won't. It is human natu
208 CALMSP : i give more credit to the pax sitting in the exit rows!! those are the ones who really helped everyone by actually understanding how to open the exit
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