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And Again On AA's ORD-DME Flight...  
User currently offlineAddd From United States of America, joined May 2007, 397 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 12642 times:

I commented before on seemingly dismal performance of American's Chicago-Moscow (ORD-DME) direct flight - http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...general_aviation/read.main/4208936 - has anyone taken it lately? Have loads improved significantly at least for the holiday season?

79 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQQflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2297 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 12519 times:

Load factors around holidays can vary wildly. The average load factor for flight 158 ORD-DME between 22Dec and 31Dec is 59%, while the average LF on flight 159 DME-ORD during the same dates is 95%. The high LF on the return flights will help to offset the relatively low LF on the outbound.

This is just a one week projected snapshot, however. I don't know the historical performance of the route. Looking at the numbers, coach is clearly the popular option here with less than half of the premium seats being sold on each flight. Another reason why the 777 was way too much airplane for the route. But AA knew this. They had to use the T7s until the 763s could read altitude in meters, a requirement of flying to Russia.



The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlineAddd From United States of America, joined May 2007, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 12469 times:



Quoting QQflyboy (Reply 1):
Load factors around holidays can vary wildly. The average load factor for flight 158 ORD-DME between 22Dec and 31Dec is 59%, while the average LF on flight 159 DME-ORD during the same dates is 95%. The high LF on the return flights will help to offset the relatively low LF on the outbound.

This is just a one week projected snapshot, however. I don't know the historical performance of the route.

Thanks - very interesting.... frankly, there is not much of a "historical performance" to benchmark against since this is the first winter holiday season for this flight...By the way - where is the data from?


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 12464 times:

this is clearly a difficult time to starting service to Russia but even with a possible 77% LF for a one week period, the off-peak periods in early Dec and into Jan are undoubtedly much lower. Also, holiday travel in the premium cabins tends to have a higher percentage of upgrades and free tickets compared with during the rest of the year. So, AA clearly has to do better than this to keep the route on a long term basis. Given they have scheduled it through the most difficult period, they will undoubtedly keep it through summer 2009 and then reevaluate mid-way through the summer when bookings and revenue for the summer season become more clear; those summer bookings will provide insight into how the route will do during the winter.

User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3217 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 12096 times:



Quoting QQflyboy (Reply 1):
They had to use the T7s until the 763s could read altitude in meters, a requirement of flying to Russia.

In addition to altitude indicating "0" upon landing, regardless of airfield MSL. Easy for planes like the 744, 777, etc.... but for the relatively old-technology of the 763, AA had to modify the entire fleet.


User currently offlineRIPCORDD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1197 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 11895 times:

Given what AA has done it will be around thru the end of the summer and then they will make their minds up the conv of the 767 it will be around until the end of next summer. They may reduce it to 4x a week Jan Feb. They just need to or unless they already have secured some cargo contracts this would not go anywhere.

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 11709 times:

What's interesting is this is one of the few city-pair ads I've seen done by AA-i.e.most of their ads are "general" ads but I've seen taxis in Chicago which have AA's ORD-DME flight. Not saying there aren't any, but this is the only one which comes to my mind.

I do know AA did some advertising for ORD-DEL a few years ago, but that's about it.



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 11613 times:

There are also billboards all over the center of Moscow advertising this service. I'm pretty sure DL is also running a 99% LF on SVO-JFK with Americans coming back home for the holidays.

I'm flying it tomorrow and it looks pretty oversold; I'll be sure to post a TR



What now?
User currently offlineAddd From United States of America, joined May 2007, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11416 times:



Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 7):
I'm pretty sure DL is also running a 99% LF on SVO-JFK

Well, unlike ORD-DME, JFK-SVO flight is not going anywhere... I agree, however, that, bar any surprises, AA is likely to keep the flight until at least the end of the summer schedule.

ORD-DME flight was indeed very aggressively marketed on billboards, etc. in both Chicago and Moscow during the summer; some of these billbaords are still out there.


User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (5 years 12 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 11138 times:

Yep. I'll try to get some photographs of the billboards. It seems like business is slowly picking up on the route, which is good. Slowly, but picking up.

-A



What now?
User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2401 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (5 years 12 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10908 times:



Quoting Addd (Thread starter):
I commented before on seemingly dismal performance of American's Chicago-Moscow (ORD-DME) direct flight

Since you seem to be very keen on whether this will make or break, where do you think AA should have put this route? MIA,DFW,JFK? Or do you just feel that AA can't make DME work out of anywhere? Also, what other routes do you feel are doomed, not just AA by the way.

Curious because you posted a thread about a specific airline's route twice.



"The low fares airline."
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (5 years 12 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10892 times:

isn't UA delaying its IAD-MOW service to summer 2009? the fortunes of AA in MOW seemed tied to the return of the overall economy. Whether UA comes in the market will probably determine whether AA survives. If UA comes into the market, they will probably ruin AA and UA's chances.

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (5 years 12 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10801 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11):
isn't UA delaying its IAD-MOW service to summer 2009? the fortunes of AA in MOW seemed tied to the return of the overall economy. Whether UA comes in the market will probably determine whether AA survives. If UA comes into the market, they will probably ruin AA and UA's chances.

 point  Non sequitur . They are completely different markets. AA doesn't even fly IAD-ORD so there is no connecting points in the first place.



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineJDAirCEO From Uruguay, joined Jan 2006, 280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 12 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10756 times:

Completely different markets?

AA has many daily flights on DCA-ORD. When traveling as far as DME, most people on the east coast do not mind back-tracking to ORD.



An MD-80 is great... in first class
User currently offlineOrdflier From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 12 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10721 times:

I always get a kick out of folks who think that point to point service, especially from hubs is only geared towards the local traffic. Yes, traffic between ORD-DME on AA is a substantial percentage of the few seats filled, but if UA was to start IAD-DME service then the connecting traffic from many of the same points (including most major cities on the West Coast) that both serve would become competitive.

For the same reason that customers would fly from the West Coast on Lufthansa and connect via Frankfurt, or on Delta via JFK, BA via LHR, etc the addition of a UA flight from IAD would potentially hurt AA's chances in the market.



ORDflier
User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (5 years 12 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10676 times:



Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 7):
There are also billboards all over the center of Moscow advertising this service. I'm pretty sure DL is also running a 99% LF on SVO-JFK with Americans coming back home for the holidays.

Isn't DL also doing remarkably well on ATL-SVO over the last few years? Not sure if it's just a seasonal route or not. It may be that the market for MOW from the US is well-enough served at this point between Delta and Aeroflot that any new entrant will have to compete vigorously for a share. Slacking relations between the US and Russia may also have some part as far as traffic goes.

I doubt ORD's geographic position has much to do with performance. If Atlanta can work so well for Delta as far south as it is, ORD's positioned just fine (even for DCA folks). I think it's a matter of not enough passengers to go around.



Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (5 years 12 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10618 times:



Quoting JDAirCEO (Reply 13):
Completely different markets?

AA has many daily flights on DCA-ORD. When traveling as far as DME, most people on the east coast do not mind back-tracking to ORD.

That would be flying ORD-LGA and then commuting to JFK to fly JFK-LHR. Two different airports and I would have to bet >95% of pax don't do that.

Quoting Ordflier (Reply 14):
I always get a kick out of folks who think that point to point service, especially from hubs is only geared towards the local traffic. Yes, traffic between ORD-DME on AA is a substantial percentage of the few seats filled, but if UA was to start IAD-DME service then the connecting traffic from many of the same points (including most major cities on the West Coast) that both serve would become competitive.

It all depends on the numbers, IIRC, connecting pax from various cities to this route for AA is not too large (if anyone has the exact numbers, it would be nice to see).



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineHjulicher From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 890 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (5 years 12 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10616 times:

The reason MOW has such limited service to the USA as compared to other European cities is its geographic location. Many european cities that have multiple flight to myriads of American cities have the advantage of being good connecting points for onward travel. CDG, LHR, AMS, FRA, MUC, even CPH. MOW (SVO and DME) on the other hand cater much more on O/D traffic from that point. Granted, they do see many onward connections to interior Russia, but I bet you that AA and UA will see limited traffic on their flights headed/from interior points in Russia. That's the problem that AA and UA will face, whereas SU and DL have all of Aeroflot's routes. Anyways, I think that SU and DL could make additional routes work, but I think AA and UA will have a difficult time filling their pockets because they're relying solely on much of the O/D from Moscow. Now that SU is in the skyteam alliance and you can earn miles with your Sberbank Aeroflot Visa card, many Russians have become loyal to Aeroflot, in many of the same ways that Americans are loyal to their hometown hub carrier.

If UA were to start service from IAD, I guess it could see a considerable percent of government related traffic... this might help UA. The once weekly flights on SU to IAD from SVO are there to cater for the Government employees in Washington I think.



LH 442
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7808 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (5 years 12 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10600 times:



Quoting AA767400 (Reply 10):
where do you think AA should have put this route?

ORD was the right choice. Definately not DFW or MIA. JFK has 2 carriers already flying to Moscow.

Quoting Breaker1011 (Reply 15):
Isn't DL also doing remarkably well on ATL-SVO over the last few years?

They seem to be. DL is very established in the route. Every indication seems to be that ATL-SVO is indeed a good preformer.

Quoting Ordflier (Reply 14):
Yes, traffic between ORD-DME on AA is a substantial percentage of the few seats filled, but if UA was to start IAD-DME service then the connecting traffic from many of the same points (including most major cities on the West Coast) that both serve would become competitive.

I also think that IAD-DME will hurt ORD-DME. Whether they will force AA out of the market im unsure of, but it will be tough between them for the reason that they will be competeing for the same connections.

If one survives, it will probably be ORD-DME. Chicago has the 3rd largest O&D to Moscow after New York and Los Angeles. On top of which I think SU still flies IAD-SVO a couple of times a week, so they have a little competition.

I always thought MOW was a city that was underserved for a long time, but with UA coming in, maybe it will be overserved.

AA better not back out of ORD-DME before September 2, because ill be flying it that day!  Big grin



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 12 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10580 times:



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 12):
Non sequitur . They are completely different markets. AA doesn't even fly IAD-ORD so there is no connecting points in the first place.

If anything UA has the ability to connect every one of the markets AA can serve over IAD. The local CHI market flew other carriers long before AA started service. To think that traffic is locked onto AA is not reality. And both of DL's MOW routes originate east of CHI. There is a reason why the majority of European flights originate on the east coast. It doesn't mean that AA can't be successful to Europe from CHI - they clearly are on several routes - but the geographic advantage of east coast hubs cannot be denied, esp. in a market like Russia which is smaller than other markets.

Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 17):
The reason MOW has such limited service to the USA as compared to other European cities is its geographic location.

the bilateral between the US and Russia was highly restricted for years. DL bought its way into Russia complements of Pan Am... and few other carriers have felt comfortable taking on DL up to this point. There have been rumors of new service to Russia to challenge DL for years; AA was the first to actually do it and time will tell whether they picked the right time.


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6132 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (5 years 12 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10547 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11):
isn't UA delaying its IAD-MOW service to summer 2009?

UA 964 starts March 29th....

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 18):
If one survives, it will probably be ORD-DME. Chicago has the 3rd largest O&D to Moscow after New York and Los Angeles. On top of which I think SU still flies IAD-SVO a couple of times a week, so they have a little competition.

I'm not so sure if ORD-DME would come out as top dog, IAD-DME is partially about O&D coming out of DC but its also set up to take a lot of the UA/LH JV US-Germany-DME connecting traffic and put them on the UA non-stop.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7808 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (5 years 12 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10500 times:



Quoting United1 (Reply 20):
I'm not so sure if ORD-DME would come out as top dog, IAD-DME is partially about O&D coming out of DC but its also set up to take a lot of the UA/LH JV US-Germany-DME connecting traffic and put them on the UA non-stop.

But is that a reason that IAD-DME would succeed should one of them fail? That seems more of a reason that to take a load off of UA/LH's FRA nonstops. Remember that the people in Chicago pretty much have the same options as those in DC. They arent just limited to UA/LH and AA respectively.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6132 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (5 years 12 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10458 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 21):
But is that a reason that IAD-DME would succeed should one of them fail? That seems more of a reason that to take a load off of UA/LH's FRA nonstops.

Well IAD-DME has three advantages over the AAs ORD flight in my opinion. The first is allot of DC Government traffic in addition to any O&D traffic that DC might generate is going to be captured by UAs flight, the second is by taking those US-Germany-DME connecting passengers that I was talking about and putting them on the non-stop UA already has a traffic base and third not only is UA selling this flight here in the US but LH is also going to be selling this flight in DME. The flight does have the added bonus of opening up seats on UA/LH US-Germany flights which allows those two carriers to sell additional passengers seats to other cities in Europe.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 21):
Remember that the people in Chicago pretty much have the same options as those in DC. They arent just limited to UA/LH and AA respectively.

Chicagoans are not limited to any two airlines but they do tend to fly UA, AA or WN...



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (5 years 12 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10384 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 19):
If anything UA has the ability to connect every one of the markets AA can serve over IAD. The local CHI market flew other carriers long before AA started service. To think that traffic is locked onto AA is not reality. And both of DL's MOW routes originate east of CHI. There is a reason why the majority of European flights originate on the east coast. It doesn't mean that AA can't be successful to Europe from CHI - they clearly are on several routes - but the geographic advantage of east coast hubs cannot be denied, esp. in a market like Russia which is smaller than other markets.

Hence my comment previously:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 16):

It all depends on the numbers, IIRC, connecting pax from various cities to this route for AA is not too large (if anyone has the exact numbers, it would be nice to see).




"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 24, posted (5 years 12 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10362 times:



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 16):

It all depends on the numbers, IIRC, connecting pax from various cities to this route for AA is not too large (if anyone has the exact numbers, it would be nice to see).

I don't have exact numbers, but I've been told that the biggest connecting points are - not surprisingly - LAX, MIA, SFO, FLL and SEA.

They could easily be filling this flight during the winter if they could get more MIA/FLL traffic (that's essentially how Delta's ATL-SVO flight survives during the winter), but Chicago is too out of the way.



a.
25 MOW : How big do you think the governmental traffic between WAS and MOW is? Big enough to fill a daily flight? Doubtful. Do you think that LH will be all t
26 Jacobin777 : Now that is quite interesting....certainly does bring this conversation to a new light. That being said, I'm not so sure if it will be enough to lure
27 MAH4546 : With MIA/FLL, even though major connecting points, AA still doesn't get a lot of traffic from those markets with respect to how large the O&D on SoFl
28 United1 : UA and LH split the revenue on every transatlantic flight via their joint venture. LH doesn't care if that passenger boards a UA or a LH flight if th
29 WorldTraveler : all of which can be easily served by DL and UA, even w/ UA's newcomer status. and Florida to Russia (or vv) is lower yielding than other O&Ds. as for
30 ContinentalEWR : American advertises its service out of NYC heavily in NY on top of taxis and alongside buses and phone booths and subway stations. MILAN ROME BARCELON
31 AA767400 : This qustion was geared more torward Addd, who questions the existence of AA's ORD-DME. Personally I think that ORD was the best choice for AA compar
32 Jacobin777 : I'll accept that, however I"m still curious to know what % of pax are connecting from the aforementioned cities (i.e.-LAX, SFO, ect.). That's fine an
33 Cws818 : Yes, and many of them can also be served by BA, LH, AF... Just because passengers could go on DL or UA does not mean that they will. AA has a gargant
34 Addd : Frankly, I think, if AA can not make Chicago work as the origin of the MOW route, they can not make the route work, period. My sense is that the mark
35 AmricanShamrok : A few years ago I saw an AA "Dublin Daily" billboard at Navy Pier, Chicago...
36 LAXdude1023 : Why? The market is certainly bigger than ORD-MOW. Its one of only two routes SU kept when they decided to slash US capacity.
37 Jacobin777 : K-E-W-L! Good to know AA does advertising for various cities. When I lived in Chicago, I didn't use to see too many AA ads for specific cities (thoug
38 AA717driver : Any aircraft can fly a metric altitude. There are conversion tables on the enroute charts for those countries that use meters. Having avionics that ca
39 AmricanShamrok : Yeah, long after the service has started I think they stop advertising. The Dublin Daily sign was up in summer 2006 just a few months after AA92/AA93
40 Jacobin777 : I don't know why AA doesn't keep up with advertising. Maybe they believe the market has hit a "critical point" and advertising more will only yield d
41 BestWestern : DL has the adavantage of strong ties with Aeroflot, the excellent Russian carrier. Both being members of Skyteam will aid passenger numbers greatly th
42 LAXdude1023 : DL does have that advantage, but SU is anything but excellent. About average service wise I found. Flew them from LAX to SVO and much like all the US
43 BestWestern : Never flew SU long haul. but on short haul and medium haul international and domestic, the service is superb, both in economy and business in compari
44 UN_B732 : SU on long haul is average.. they're not amazing, but they're not any worse than DL or KL long-haul. just flew DME-ORD christmas eve. Packed in the ba
45 AirNZ : Out of curiosity, unless you have access to propriatary financial information, how can YOU determine the yield on any given fare? I haven't flown AA
46 LAXdude1023 : They dont show the fare basis, just the booking class. N is a lower booking class, but there are several different N fares. Ill be back to work on Mo
47 Post contains links Odysseus9001 : Delta for all 3 airports for 2009. Link below, where you can find it if you search WAS-MOW. If UA actually starts it this year, my guess is that the
48 WorldTraveler : I was quite sure they did.... but the IAD route can't exist or live or die based on gov't contract business. it isn't worth enough. UA will have to m
49 UN_B732 : It was an assumption; like most stuff on a.net. AA has some very low published N fares (not on ORD-DME itself, as much as on connections via ORD; whic
50 BestWestern : Lots of AA discounting going on. On point to point AA's ORD lowest fare is considerably lower than DL at JFK, and DL at ATL. The direct competition fr
51 Hjulicher : Doesn't American have to account for the hire taxes associated with its tickets? I believe that tickets on America usually have around 200-300 dollars
52 LAXdude1023 : Yes this is true. When looking at the tarrif display you have to know how to read it. DL, CO, and NW include the fuel portion of thier ticket in the
53 BestWestern : AA DEN MOW 464 USD NLX7E3U DL DEN MOW 728 USD TLXSL10
54 UN_B732 : I paid $680 DME-LGA round-trip all-in (N fare). DL was $1000 for a comparable U fare. Can anyone pull the fare basis for comparison? .. And this has g
55 LAXdude1023 : Care to share what the taxes are on each ticket? If not I can do it tomorrow at work.
56 LAXdude1023 : Alright dude, Im about to explain to you what I mean DL's fares really arent higher. And they arent. Its all about how the airlines distribute their
57 Jacobin777 : Thanks dude for the info.. ..its good to see you back in action..
58 LAXdude1023 : Sometimes its not knowing the data, its knowing how to understand it. If you look at a terrif display for CO or DL, it will appear they have higher f
59 Jacobin777 : I was referring to the fact you're functioning coherently today..... . That being said, its interesting how things turn out with your numbers.... . I
60 WorldTraveler : LAXdude, there is something not right about that tax calc. AA and DL start out with considerably different base fares and the differences in their tax
61 LAXdude1023 : Here you go: American: *PENALTY APPLIES* LAST DATE TO PURCHASE TICKET: 06JAN09 $BB-1-2 C03JAN09 LAX AA X/CHI AA MOW M274.00NLX7E3U AA X/CHI AA LAX M2
62 WorldTraveler : absolutely agree. thanks for the full fare calc. Fare surcharges do offer some flexibility but the bottom line is that the out the door fare is the s
63 LAXdude1023 : Yeah. The bottom line is the bottom line. In this case DL was only about $5 more than AA. The loyal fliers would pay that in a heart beat to get the
64 Hjulicher : Thanks for the clarifications LAXdude1023
65 BestWestern : DL are to upgrade the ATL SVO flight to a 764 with lie-flat BE seats and AVOD. Service begins Jul01.
66 LAXdude1023 : Theyve done this in the past as well. I dont think anyone has ever speculated that ATL-SVO wasnt a good route. But there fares are about the same as
67 WorldTraveler : first, you picked one itinerary to show that DL and AA fares are the same.... that is hardly conclusive evidence for anything. They may be the same on
68 LAXdude1023 : In a post that was deleted on this thread, you tried to insinuate that maybe AA's route network wasnt as profitable as people thought based on the on
69 WorldTraveler : I haven't speculated anything about profitability other than to quote published statistics about each carrier. I also only am posting published statis
70 LAXdude1023 : Ill be the first to admit that I dont think UA and AA will both make it in Moscow. I dont know which one will fall. I dont think that DL will be affe
71 Post contains links Addd : Oh, by the way - here comes Delta's SVO-ATL flight on Sunday with 208 passengers on board... http://www.ajc.com/services/content/printedition/2009/01/
72 MAH4546 : The flight does very well during the winter thanks to connections to Florida. I'd bet that half the flight was connecting to MIA and FLL.
73 WorldTraveler : Based on DOT data, less than 10% of DL's passengers in 1Q08 on ATLSVO segment were flying to MIA and FLL combined.
74 Gigneil : The entirety of Chicago is covered with ads for specific cities. The Navy Pier is plastered, billboards are plastered, El trains are covered with ads
75 Post contains links Addd : ... yet another proof of softening market for direct North America - Russia flights - SU is discontinuing it 4x weekly SVO-YYZ flights effective March
76 Post contains links Addd : At the same time, United has just announced DAILY (sic!) IAD-DME flight with 763 (see the link below) for summer 2009. Have no idea what they are thin
77 Jacobin777 : Maybe now, but not when I was living in Chicago for the the greater part of 3 1/2 decades. Besides some various ads placed "here and there", I never
78 WorldTraveler : UA has planned their Moscow service for some time... but their entry at this time may ruin both AA and UA's hopes there.
79 Jacobin777 : Maybe they know it isn't the most prudent thing to do right now given the current economic climate.
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