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EK Plans To Use A380 To LAX/SFO?  
User currently offlineRyu2 From Taiwan, joined Aug 2002, 490 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6627 times:

Check out this EK presentation: http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/..._polar/CPWG5/EK_Polar_emirates.pdf

Mentions that LAX and SFO will eventually get the A380. Not sure how if anything this will change with the economy being what it is, but interesting nonetheless...

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3370 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6581 times:

If EK get all of the 58 that they have on order - they'll have to send them to everywhere but I do agree they're looking at big jumps in capacity on any routes that they deploy her on.

User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1649 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6510 times:

I knew that the problem with the A380 going to DXB was range-related. However, I think the 747-8 would be better suited for US west coast operations.
EK also got rights to fly Japan-US West Coast (so an A380 could do DXB-NRT-SFO).


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 6314 times:



Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 1):
If EK get all of the 58 that they have on order - they'll have to send them to everywhere but I do agree they're looking at big jumps in capacity on any routes that they deploy her on.

I wouldnt be so sure actually - i'd expect the LAX/SFO birds to be very low density, with huge numbers of premium seats and probably even then not till the post-2012 birds hit the fleet with the range and fuel burn bump. I bet there isnt 100 seats between the 77L and the very low density A388s at EK.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3370 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6196 times:

"I wouldnt be so sure actually - i'd expect the LAX/SFO birds to be very low density, with huge numbers of premium seats and probably even then not till the post-2012 birds hit the fleet with the range and fuel burn bump. I bet there isnt 100 seats between the 77L and the very low density A388s at EK."

True, had forgot the range part of the question!


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8244 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6158 times:
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With Emirates going to California, Houston, and Sao Paulo where will they go next in the Americas ? IAD, ORD, Miami ? 777LR's to all. Is the A380 built for 17 hour flights ? A380's were built to perform for 13-15 hours, Singapore to LHR, Sydney to LAX & LAX to HKG.

User currently offlineSsublyme From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6062 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 5):
With Emirates going to California, Houston, and Sao Paulo where will they go next in the Americas

I read somewhere Phoenix was a destination they were interested in.


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9932 posts, RR: 96
Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5901 times:
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Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 3):
I wouldnt be so sure actually - I'd expect the LAX/SFO birds to be very low density, with huge numbers of premium seats and probably even then not till the post-2012 birds hit the fleet with the range and fuel burn bump

Tim Clark is on record as saying his "improved" (i.e. c. 2012) birds will pretty much hit DXB-SFO with a "full payload".
Hard to know exactly what he means by that, of course. But overlaying some 4.5 tonne weight reduction and 2% SFC improvement on top of the A380's current range/payload would indicate that the improved bird's payload at 7 000 Nm still air (the length of the DXB-SFO sector) should be pretty much the 190 000lb which is today's plane's max payload.

Today's A380 should be able to make about 165 000lb - 170 000lb at 7 000Nm still air.

I don't know what "windage" should be applied for the westbound leg, but even 1 000Nm added on to the still-air distance would still leave today's bird with around 120 000lb payload capability (easily enough to fill 480 seats), and the "improved" one with around 140 000lb payload capability.
(vs c. 95 000lb for the 748i, according to the last ACAP Boeing produced)

Quoting Directorguy (Reply 2):
I knew that the problem with the A380 going to DXB was range-related. However, I think the 747-8 would be better suited for US west coast operations.

Again, according to Tim Clark, the 748i is unlikely to boast the range capability that the A380's that he will be receiving in the same timescale will have.

Rgds


User currently offlineDennys From France, joined May 2001, 842 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5721 times:

At the beginning the A345s were ordered for these destinations .

I doubt the A388 has the range to cover such a distance .

dennys


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9932 posts, RR: 96
Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5666 times:
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Quoting Dennys (Reply 8):
At the beginning the A345s were ordered for these destinations .

I doubt the A388 has the range to cover such a distance .

There is little doubt that EK's later A380's, with c. 4.5 - 5 tonnes off the current OEW, and 2% better SFC from their GP7000's, and a little bit of aerodynamic tweaking, will near-as-dammit match the range of the A340-500 (the original, not the IGW).

Figure on c. 7 000Nm max payload range and c. 8 600Nm nominal pax only range (pretty much the same as the A345..  Smile ).

Alternatively, there's always this in corroboration..  Wink

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 7):
Tim Clark is on record as saying his "improved" (i.e. c. 2012) birds will pretty much hit DXB-SFO (7 050Nm) with a "full payload".

He's also on record as saying the A388 will be replacing the 772LR on the DXB-IAH run (7 100Nm) , saying that, despite being unable to carry its full payload this distance, it would still be "more economic" (a phrase left open to some interpretation, but I read as "more profitable")

Rgds


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12767 posts, RR: 100
Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5488 times:
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Quoting Astuteman (Reply 7):
Again, according to Tim Clark, the 748i is unlikely to boast the range capability that the A380's that he will be receiving in the same timescale will have.

 checkmark  Nice summary as always. However, I expect *a little* more range out of the 2012 A388. They're tyring a bit of everything to improve the plane's range. All EK demands is 8,300nm 'still air' range for DXB-LAX.

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 1):
but I do agree they're looking at big jumps in capacity on any routes that they deploy her on.

'Big Jumps' assumes suddenly going from Daily 77L to Daily A380. Most likely, in the time frames of interest, it will be going from 10X to 14X Weekly 77L flights to having a small number of the flights (say 3X/week) replaced with the A388. As time progresses more of the flights would shift to A388's in a progressive capacity drive.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 3):
i'd expect the LAX/SFO birds to be very low density, with huge numbers of premium seats and probably even then not till the post-2012 birds hit the fleet with the range and fuel burn bump. I bet there isnt 100 seats between the 77L and the very low density A388s at EK.

Interesting bit... however, due to the HUGE seat area difference between the A388 and the 77L, I would bet there will be more than 100 seats difference. But I do agree that EK will likely create another seating configuration for ULH routes that would move J seats to the main deck.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineShanxz From Singapore, joined Apr 2006, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5327 times:



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 3):
I wouldnt be so sure actually - i'd expect the LAX/SFO birds to be very low density, with huge numbers of premium seats and probably even then not till the post-2012 birds hit the fleet with the range and fuel burn bump. I bet there isnt 100 seats between the 77L and the very low density A388s at EK.

 checkmark  Nigel Page, Emirates' VP of North American Ops told me in an interview that they'll be using the 489 seats (3 class, Long range) version of the A380 for their flights to LAX and SFO - both of which were to have started by Nov 30, and were meant to be non-stops from DXB. But we all now know the reality is different because of the economic climate...

Emirates' current 773ER has 385 Y-class seats and 42 J-class. So the A380 has 72 seats more...which they're looking to fill up. Guess they'll have to wait till the economy improves.



Airlines are in the service business, not transport. Brand matters...
User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5311 times:



Quoting Ssublyme (Reply 6):
I read somewhere Phoenix was a destination they were interested in.

BA barely makes it's LHR flight work from PHX, and US has never even attempted a trans-oceanic out of here. If EK lands in PHX, they are truly living in a fantasy world.

Is it just me or is it all total overkill? There will be more EK seats from the US to DXB than from the US to GRU. At some point, EK's going to have put so much idle capacity to DXB from N and S America that no one will make enough $$ to last there or anywhere in the middle east. Perhaps that's the plan. Makes you wonder about the true price of an open sky agreement sometimes. Cynical tonight.



Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlinePhxpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 80 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4966 times:



Quoting Breaker1011 (Reply 12):
BA barely makes it's LHR flight work from PHX

Source or data?


User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4933 times:

Only my anecdotal experience thru others, sorry... colleagues have flown it many times roundtrip in the last 2 years during peak/shoulder season, and not once was the ship more than 50% full, and less than that in premium cabins. I think it's too much bird for the route. Hopefully it's doing better, as it's sure a nice sight to see that 744 land from atop T-4's parking garage!

Point still - EK in PHX is not realistic.



Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineShanxz From Singapore, joined Apr 2006, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4902 times:



Quoting Breaker1011 (Reply 14):
Point still - EK in PHX is not realistic.

 checkmark  I too have no idea why all the sheikhs from Dubai will go to PHX...



Airlines are in the service business, not transport. Brand matters...
User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5283 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4532 times:



Quoting Shanxz (Reply 11):
Emirates' current 773ER has 385 Y-class seats and 42 J-class. So the A380 has 72 seats more...which they're looking to fill up. Guess they'll have to wait till the economy improves.

Thats a 2 class 77W, the long haul 3 class ones are 8F 42J 304Y.I'd imagine the EK A380 will get to LAX and SFO oneday, its just a matter of weather they can do it non stop or not.


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9932 posts, RR: 96
Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4347 times:
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Quoting Shanxz (Reply 11):
Emirates' current 773ER has 385 Y-class seats and 42 J-class. So the A380 has 72 seats more...which they're looking to fill up. Guess they'll have to wait till the economy improves.

That's ok, but Chris's comparison was to the 772LR which EK currently use for their ULR flights. How many seats do they have?

I don't think you'll see 427 seat 773ER's flying DXB-LAX (or SFO) any time soon...

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 10):
Nice summary as always. However, I expect *a little* more range out of the 2012 A388

Did you mean "748i" in this sentence?
In which case I wouldn't disagree with you..  Smile

Rgds


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5283 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4325 times:



Quoting Astuteman (Reply 17):
That's ok, but Chris's comparison was to the 772LR which EK currently use for their ULR flights. How many seats do they have?

8F 42J 216Y. Total 266.


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9932 posts, RR: 96
Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4285 times:
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Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 18):
Quoting Astuteman (Reply 17):
That's ok, but Chris's comparison was to the 772LR which EK currently use for their ULR flights. How many seats do they have?

8F 42J 216Y. Total 266.

Just the 85% (200 seat) increase in capacity, then..  biggrin 

(which is pretty representative of the respective cabin sizes, by the way..  Smile )

Rgds


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