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Future Conversion For The B772,772ER,773,773ER?  
User currently offlineBoeingdotcom From Singapore, joined Nov 2008, 89 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 12 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3191 times:

Hiya! As we know that Boeing has a B777 Cargo version, based on B777-200LR. But, as SQ, CX, Emirates are retiring their B772, some of them will find their new airlines like Transaero, South American Airlines, Iran Air, etc. How about the rest? In storage, that's probably a sad end to an airplane. So, is it possible that IAI, Boeing Conversion might covert Passenger planes like B772 non-ER to airlines who are using the DC-10? And the B773 non-ER, B772ER, B773ER to cargo planes? If it is possible or the time that Boeing and IAI starts converting B777 passenger planes to cargo planes?


Never forget to be yourself.
7 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31387 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (5 years 12 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3085 times:
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Well both the 777-200 and 777-200ER fleet would make perfect replacements for the DC-10F and MD-10F. Both models would offer roughly 25% more volume and the 772 would offer about 5t less payload lift and the 77E about 10t more.

I expect the 777-200BCF would mostly appeal to package carriers like FX and 5X who just need volume. FX could absorb the entire 777-200 fleet if they wanted to replace their DC-10F and MD-10F fleet on a 1:1 basis. Add in 5X, and current 772A operators might very well be able to unload their entire fleets.

The 777-200ERBCF would be competition for the A330-200F, offering 25% more volume and 10t or more payload lift. However, the A330-200F will be a far lighter plane so it should have much better range at similar payload weights. As such, the A330-200F will likely complement the 777F in opening new opportunities to link far-flung hubs with priority cargo while the 777-200BCF replaces the DC-10-30F and MD-10-30F.

I see no real future for the 777-300 as a passenger to cargo conversion except for FX and 5X who could use them for their volume. I don't really see where the 777-300ER would work since the 777F will almost assuredly out-haul it, so it would again be more appealing to operators who "cube out" often with lower density cargo.

[Edited 2008-12-23 08:16:28]

User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13518 posts, RR: 100
Reply 2, posted (5 years 12 months 1 day ago) and read 2865 times:
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Stitch,

Nice summary.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
FX could absorb the entire 777-200 fleet if they wanted to replace their DC-10F and MD-10F fleet on a 1:1 basis. Add in 5X, and current 772A operators might very well be able to unload their entire fleets.

I wonder if it would pay off to buy the 772A's and convert them in the downturn a la MD-11 conversions?  scratchchin  As your numbers show, the 77E is a better conversion, but could the airframes be picked up cheaply enough? I suspect not yet.

As for the 777-300ER conversion to a freighter, that will happen far in the future. There are too many profitable years ahead for those airframes in passanger duty. However, eventually they will be out of date and someone will pick them up for freight duty. Sadly that implies towards the end of the 77W service life. So I simply do not see a 77WSF package until 2020 or later!  faint 

I wonder how the freight market will handle the drop in revenue? Personally, I see quite a few JT9D powered freighters becoming beer cans.  spit  Seriously... their time has come.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3757 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (5 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 2714 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
5X who just need volume

Who is 5X ?


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31387 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (5 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 2678 times:
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Quoting 747400sp (Reply 3):
Who is 5X?

UPS.

And FX is FedEx.


User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5216 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (5 years 12 months 8 hours ago) and read 2514 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
However, the A330-200F will be a far lighter plane so it should have much better range at similar payload weights.

The air freight industry has, thus far, not considered it necessary to fly segments much greater than about 4000nm preferring to take a tech stop or use a reload centre such as ANC rather than reduce payload.
Do you see any significant change coming to that policy?


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31387 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (5 years 12 months 6 hours ago) and read 2447 times:
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Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 5):
The air freight industry has, thus far, not considered it necessary to fly segments much greater than about 4000nm preferring to take a tech stop or use a reload centre such as ANC rather than reduce payload. Do you see any significant change coming to that policy?

In general, no. But then the A332F's design range at maximum payload (69t) is 5900km, so it would need to make a stop in ANC. Even if payload is lowered to 64t, the stop would still need to be made as range would be 7400km. So to get 9000km out of it (to match the 777F), you'd likely be looking at a sub-60t payload.

Based on it's passenger profile, a 772BCF would fly 6000km with a full payload. However, the conversion is going to add weight, so I think a figure of 5500km is more likely.

A 77EBCF will do much better. It's a 10,000km passenger plane so it could even out-range the 9000km 777F, though with a payload some 20t less. However, it would club an MD-11 like a harp seal on range, though it would fall 10t short on payload, as well.

Where the 77EBCF could get real dangerous is if the converters can get that payload from ~80t to closer to ~90t and keep the range with that load at around 8000km. At that point, it would eviscerate the MD-11, hip-check the A330-200F not only into the boards, but through them and into the stands and cast a very long and dark shadow over the 777F.

 cold 


User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5216 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (5 years 12 months 3 hours ago) and read 2359 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
At that point, it would eviscerate the MD-11, hip-check the A330-200F not only into the boards, but through them and into the stands and cast a very long and dark shadow over the 777F.

Stitch, by chance are you a hockey fan that runs a chicken farm on the side ?


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