Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Delta To Delay DTW-PVG & SEA-PEK Start Up  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25784 posts, RR: 50
Posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7538 times:

Delta has filed with the DOT a deferral request on two of its new China routes.

The carrier request that DTW-PVG start up be allowed to slip from March 25, 2009 to June 3, 2009, and operate at a reduced frequency of 4x per week thru at least Summer 2010.

Additionally the start of its SEA-PEK service would be pushed back one year from March 2009 to March 2010.

Delta cited a 30% reduction in U.S.-China bookings as evidence of the “extraordinarily adverse market conditions”.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3108 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7503 times:

It's good to see that, at least for now, SEA-PEK is still planned to be launched (if later than initially hoped).

Will DTW and ATL-PVG be operated on alternate days to ensure a daily coverage?


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9559 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7489 times:



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 1):
Will DTW and ATL-PVG be operated on alternate days to ensure a daily coverage?

i would think so
ATL-PVG 4x weekly 77E
DTW-PVG 4x weekly 744
NRT-PVG daily 744(IMHO this will be changed to a A332 to help ATL/DTW-PVG)



yep.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25784 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6963 times:

Looking at July seems the proposed DTW-PVG operating days are Wed, Fri, Sat, Sun,


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineWarren747sp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1167 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6707 times:

I think CO's got a winner EWR-PVG when it starts up. I hope still be able to use NW miles then.


747SP
User currently offlineDTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6664 times:

CO can not get out of the Skyteam for 9 months after the merger date was approved. So you may be able to use them. This is per the artical in Airliner magazine back in June of 2008.

User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6440 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 2):
i would think so
ATL-PVG 4x weekly 77E
DTW-PVG 4x weekly 744

I don't mean to be difficult, but given that ATL is more than twice the hub in terms of traffic that DTW is, and I simply cannot imagine that DTW has more O/D traffic to PVG either, at least not at the moment, so why would DL utilize a larger aircraft to PVG from DTW than ATL?

I know that DTW has supported 744 flights in the past and DL has just run 772's from ATL, but I think that's less about being the best fit to route and more about other things.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineB707forever From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6378 times:



Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 6):
I don't mean to be difficult, but given that ATL is more than twice the hub in terms of traffic that DTW is, and I simply cannot imagine that DTW has more O/D traffic to PVG either, at least not at the moment, so why would DL utilize a larger aircraft to PVG from DTW than ATL?

Well, as a New Englander (NYC) I can only guess that there's traffic from the Northeast, Mideast and Midwest that would rather go north toward Detroit rather than south to Atlanta to change planes? It always frustrates me when I see Delta connections that force me to Atlanta to go North or East.


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5929 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6238 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I think the delay of the SEA-PEK service casts a larger shadow of the service ever starting. I'll believe it when I see it...anything can happen between now and then.

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5823 times:

I think I'm also a little surprised that the 744 couldn't be put to use better... but the question I guess now is, which is more valuable to DL? A 744 or a 777?

NS


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9559 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5738 times:



Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 6):
I know that DTW has supported 744 flights in the past and DL has just run 772's from ATL, but I think that's less about being the best fit to route and more about other things.

this is still if it starts with a 744. A 744 could "trade" with a 777.

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 9):
I think I'm also a little surprised that the 744 couldn't be put to use better... but the question I guess now is, which is more valuable to DL? A 744 or a 777?

read above [;us this is what NW was going to start it with Pre-merger.



yep.
User currently offlinePVG From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2004, 727 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5579 times:



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 8):
I think the delay of the SEA-PEK service casts a larger shadow of the service ever starting. I'll believe it when I see it...anything can happen between now and then.

Would there be any chance of them requesting a change so that can start LAX-PEK instead? I still can't understand why none of the US Flag carriers are running China flights from LAX?


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5929 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5553 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting PVG (Reply 11):
Would there be any chance of them requesting a change so that can start LAX-PEK instead? I still can't understand why none of the US Flag carriers are running China flights from LAX?

I would imagine DL could apply for a change with the US DOT.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7693 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 5 days ago) and read 5390 times:



Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 6):
and I simply cannot imagine that DTW has more O/D traffic to PVG either,

I havent looked at DTW, but ATL-China O&D is very small. I would think there would actually be more from DTW (at least with a healthy auto industry).

Not only that, but DTW is much better suited to pick up traffic from the Northeast than ATL is.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5350 times:



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 12):
Quoting PVG (Reply 11):
Would there be any chance of them requesting a change so that can start LAX-PEK instead? I still can't understand why none of the US Flag carriers are running China flights from LAX?

I would imagine DL could apply for a change with the US DOT.

SEA-PEK was to be started using the unrestricted NRT-CAN rights wasn't it? So why does any further change need to go through the US DOT?



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25784 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5311 times:



Quoting PVG" class=quote target=_blank>PVG (Reply 11):
I still can't understand why none of the US Flag carriers are running China flights from LAX?

United applied for LAX-PVG last year but was not chosen.

However there is plenty of competition at LAX also - there are 3 Chinese airlines here - Air China, China Eastern and China Southern plus all the connection opportunities on other carriers so its a crowded market already.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 14):
So why does any further change need to go through the US DOT?

The DOT is the gate keeper. Even if a carrier wanted to operate a route in an open-skies market, the DOT must be informed and bless the request.

In the case of China, with limited frequencies the DOT would want to make sure US consumers get the biggest bang possible for each award. So if another carrier was willing to start service sooner, offer more seats, or provide the consumer a bigger benefit it certainly possible in theory that the original carrier could loose its frequencies and be reasigned. (this has happended over the years in various markets)



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5225 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 10):
read above [;us this is what NW was going to start it with Pre-merger.

Originally, it was to be a 788. What happened pre-merger is pretty moot now because, well, you're post-merger.

So, a 777 could be put there if they felt like it.

NS


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3108 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5122 times:



Quoting PVG (Reply 11):
Would there be any chance of them requesting a change so that can start LAX-PEK instead? I still can't understand why none of the US Flag carriers are running China flights from LAX?

The benefits at SEA are:
- less competiton (HU flies SEA-PEK, but has a ways to go to be a credible competitor)
- shorter distance (easily done with a 332 - LAX would be a stretch with a 332)
- relieves overloaded SEA-NRT route and builds upon NW's years of service in the SEA-China market
- better feed via AS/QX, and shorter routing from ATL/JFK/DTW/MSP than LAX


User currently offlineZL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5019 times:

Whatever US-China routes NW/DL offers and whenever they start, what I'd like to see is that the arrival time into China is earlier to make further connections possible. In fact, all other carriers have earlier arrival time and I don't see why NW/DL can't do so. This way the aircraft may also be made better use of, instead of sleeping in China for a night.

User currently offlineLhpdx From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4967 times:

I'm pretty sure Delta's focus will be on LAX not SEA for future Asian flights.....................

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4938 times:



Quoting Lhpdx (Reply 19):
I'm pretty sure Delta's focus will be on LAX not SEA for future Asian flights.....................

I really don't see why... as it is, they don't stand a chance against whatever retaliation UA or AA would mount, not to mention their Asian partners.

SEA, on the other hand, would go relatively unanswered. With help from AS they could offer plenty of onward connectivity.

NS


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9559 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4682 times:



Quoting PVG (Reply 11):
Would there be any chance of them requesting a change so that can start LAX-PEK instead? I still can't understand why none of the US Flag carriers are running China flights from LAX?

I'm sure there is a chance. Big one? ehhh......but there is a chance.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 13):
(at least with a healthy auto industry).

Which is a big key. I'd say right now it would be pretty close but like you said DTW is better for the Northeast.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 14):
SEA-PEK was to be started using the unrestricted NRT-CAN rights wasn't it? So why does any further change need to go through the US DOT?

They don't really have to get the ok more of a letting them know that they are doing it.

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 16):
Originally, it was to be a 788. What happened pre-merger is pretty moot now because, well, you're post-merger.

After they 787 got pushed back they said it would start with a 744 then move the the 787 ASAP. So we are both right.

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 20):
I really don't see why... as it is, they don't stand a chance against whatever retaliation UA or AA would mount, not to mention their Asian partners.

what is UA going to do? same for AA one doesn't really have the A/C or gate space in LA and the other can't seem to make anything other than LAX-NRT work.



yep.
User currently onlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4658 times:



Quoting Gigneil (Reply 20):
I really don't see why... as it is, they don't stand a chance against whatever retaliation UA or AA would mount, not to mention their Asian partners.

One strength DL has that AA and UA currently don't is that they will be using some 767 equipment, which have roughly 25-60 fewer seats than current AA and UA equipment on similar routings. DL already has SEA-NRT, SFO-NRT, and LAX-NRT so they already have more routes to Asia than AA from the West Coast.

Jeremy


User currently offlinePVG From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2004, 727 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4549 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
United applied for LAX-PVG last year but was not chosen.

However there is plenty of competition at LAX also - there are 3 Chinese airlines here - Air China, China Eastern and China Southern plus all the connection opportunities on other carriers so its a crowded market already.

thanks! Let's face it, the Chinese airlines just don't cut it service wise on international flights. A US airline woud do well with this route.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Delta To Recall 65 Pilots & 200 Flight Attendants posted Fri Sep 8 2006 23:22:58 by KarlB737
Delta To Apply For ATL-PVG Instead Of PEK In 2008 posted Fri Jan 19 2007 10:30:33 by Panamair
Emirates Trims LAX & SFO Start Up Schedules posted Sat Oct 18 2008 18:11:36 by LAXintl
Private Equity & Start-up Airlines? posted Wed Oct 15 2008 12:34:20 by Qwame
AA Seeks To Delay Launch Of ORD-PEK posted Fri Aug 29 2008 14:22:46 by Miaami
ET To Invest In African Start-up posted Thu Jul 3 2008 02:04:37 by Ota1
Delta To Start New ACV-SLC Service posted Wed Feb 6 2008 09:43:40 by Airlinebrat
Neeleman Wants To Start Up An Airline In Brazil posted Wed Jan 30 2008 21:32:53 by C010T3
Delta To Start Service To Stockholm posted Wed Nov 7 2007 01:00:46 by Jlarsson
Cancun Start-up Airline To Lease 4 BAe 146-200s. posted Fri Sep 28 2007 18:32:01 by Juventus