LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22023 posts, RR: 51 Posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6175 times:
Delta has filed with the DOT a deferral request on two of its new China routes.
The carrier request that DTW-PVG start up be allowed to slip from March 25, 2009 to June 3, 2009, and operate at a reduced frequency of 4x per week thru at least Summer 2010.
Additionally the start of its SEA-PEK service would be pushed back one year from March 2009 to March 2010.
Delta cited a 30% reduction in U.S.-China bookings as evidence of the “extraordinarily adverse market conditions”.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8576 posts, RR: 8 Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6126 times:
Quoting RwSEA (Reply 1): Will DTW and ATL-PVG be operated on alternate days to ensure a daily coverage?
i would think so
ATL-PVG 4x weekly 77E
DTW-PVG 4x weekly 744
NRT-PVG daily 744(IMHO this will be changed to a A332 to help ATL/DTW-PVG)
"Oh look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky! Look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky!" LM 1922-2011 Go Dawgs! G.A.T.A.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22023 posts, RR: 51 Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5600 times:
Looking at July seems the proposed DTW-PVG operating days are Wed, Fri, Sat, Sun,
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Warren747sp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1131 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5344 times:
I think CO's got a winner EWR-PVG when it starts up. I hope still be able to use NW miles then.
DTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5301 times:
CO can not get out of the Skyteam for 9 months after the merger date was approved. So you may be able to use them. This is per the artical in Airliner magazine back in June of 2008.
FlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15 Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5077 times:
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 2): i would think so
ATL-PVG 4x weekly 77E
DTW-PVG 4x weekly 744
I don't mean to be difficult, but given that ATL is more than twice the hub in terms of traffic that DTW is, and I simply cannot imagine that DTW has more O/D traffic to PVG either, at least not at the moment, so why would DL utilize a larger aircraft to PVG from DTW than ATL?
I know that DTW has supported 744 flights in the past and DL has just run 772's from ATL, but I think that's less about being the best fit to route and more about other things.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
B707forever From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 459 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5015 times:
Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 6): I don't mean to be difficult, but given that ATL is more than twice the hub in terms of traffic that DTW is, and I simply cannot imagine that DTW has more O/D traffic to PVG either, at least not at the moment, so why would DL utilize a larger aircraft to PVG from DTW than ATL?
Well, as a New Englander (NYC) I can only guess that there's traffic from the Northeast, Mideast and Midwest that would rather go north toward Detroit rather than south to Atlanta to change planes? It always frustrates me when I see Delta connections that force me to Atlanta to go North or East.
Wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5526 posts, RR: 5 Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4875 times:
I think the delay of the SEA-PEK service casts a larger shadow of the service ever starting. I'll believe it when I see it...anything can happen between now and then.
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4460 times:
I think I'm also a little surprised that the 744 couldn't be put to use better... but the question I guess now is, which is more valuable to DL? A 744 or a 777?
DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8576 posts, RR: 8 Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4375 times:
Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 6): I know that DTW has supported 744 flights in the past and DL has just run 772's from ATL, but I think that's less about being the best fit to route and more about other things.
this is still if it starts with a 744. A 744 could "trade" with a 777.
Quoting Gigneil (Reply 9): I think I'm also a little surprised that the 744 couldn't be put to use better... but the question I guess now is, which is more valuable to DL? A 744 or a 777?
read above [;us this is what NW was going to start it with Pre-merger.
"Oh look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky! Look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky!" LM 1922-2011 Go Dawgs! G.A.T.A.
PVG From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2004, 718 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4216 times:
Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 8): I think the delay of the SEA-PEK service casts a larger shadow of the service ever starting. I'll believe it when I see it...anything can happen between now and then.
Would there be any chance of them requesting a change so that can start LAX-PEK instead? I still can't understand why none of the US Flag carriers are running China flights from LAX?
Wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5526 posts, RR: 5 Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4190 times:
Quoting PVG (Reply 11): Would there be any chance of them requesting a change so that can start LAX-PEK instead? I still can't understand why none of the US Flag carriers are running China flights from LAX?
I would imagine DL could apply for a change with the US DOT.
Humberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4899 posts, RR: 5 Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3987 times:
Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 12): Quoting PVG (Reply 11):
Would there be any chance of them requesting a change so that can start LAX-PEK instead? I still can't understand why none of the US Flag carriers are running China flights from LAX?
I would imagine DL could apply for a change with the US DOT.
SEA-PEK was to be started using the unrestricted NRT-CAN rights wasn't it? So why does any further change need to go through the US DOT?
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22023 posts, RR: 51 Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3948 times:
United applied for LAX-PVG last year but was not chosen.
However there is plenty of competition at LAX also - there are 3 Chinese airlines here - Air China, China Eastern and China Southern plus all the connection opportunities on other carriers so its a crowded market already.
Quoting Humberside (Reply 14): So why does any further change need to go through the US DOT?
The DOT is the gate keeper. Even if a carrier wanted to operate a route in an open-skies market, the DOT must be informed and bless the request.
In the case of China, with limited frequencies the DOT would want to make sure US consumers get the biggest bang possible for each award. So if another carrier was willing to start service sooner, offer more seats, or provide the consumer a bigger benefit it certainly possible in theory that the original carrier could loose its frequencies and be reasigned. (this has happended over the years in various markets)
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3862 times:
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 10): read above [;us this is what NW was going to start it with Pre-merger.
Originally, it was to be a 788. What happened pre-merger is pretty moot now because, well, you're post-merger.
So, a 777 could be put there if they felt like it.
RwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3014 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3759 times:
Quoting PVG (Reply 11): Would there be any chance of them requesting a change so that can start LAX-PEK instead? I still can't understand why none of the US Flag carriers are running China flights from LAX?
The benefits at SEA are:
- less competiton (HU flies SEA-PEK, but has a ways to go to be a credible competitor)
- shorter distance (easily done with a 332 - LAX would be a stretch with a 332)
- relieves overloaded SEA-NRT route and builds upon NW's years of service in the SEA-China market
- better feed via AS/QX, and shorter routing from ATL/JFK/DTW/MSP than LAX
ZL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3656 times:
Whatever US-China routes NW/DL offers and whenever they start, what I'd like to see is that the arrival time into China is earlier to make further connections possible. In fact, all other carriers have earlier arrival time and I don't see why NW/DL can't do so. This way the aircraft may also be made better use of, instead of sleeping in China for a night.
Lhpdx From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 326 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3604 times:
I'm pretty sure Delta's focus will be on LAX not SEA for future Asian flights.....................
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3575 times:
Quoting Lhpdx (Reply 19): I'm pretty sure Delta's focus will be on LAX not SEA for future Asian flights.....................
I really don't see why... as it is, they don't stand a chance against whatever retaliation UA or AA would mount, not to mention their Asian partners.
SEA, on the other hand, would go relatively unanswered. With help from AS they could offer plenty of onward connectivity.
DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8576 posts, RR: 8 Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3319 times:
Quoting PVG (Reply 11): Would there be any chance of them requesting a change so that can start LAX-PEK instead? I still can't understand why none of the US Flag carriers are running China flights from LAX?
I'm sure there is a chance. Big one? ehhh......but there is a chance.
Which is a big key. I'd say right now it would be pretty close but like you said DTW is better for the Northeast.
Quoting Humberside (Reply 14): SEA-PEK was to be started using the unrestricted NRT-CAN rights wasn't it? So why does any further change need to go through the US DOT?
They don't really have to get the ok more of a letting them know that they are doing it.
Quoting Gigneil (Reply 16): Originally, it was to be a 788. What happened pre-merger is pretty moot now because, well, you're post-merger.
After they 787 got pushed back they said it would start with a 744 then move the the 787 ASAP. So we are both right.
Quoting Gigneil (Reply 20): I really don't see why... as it is, they don't stand a chance against whatever retaliation UA or AA would mount, not to mention their Asian partners.
what is UA going to do? same for AA one doesn't really have the A/C or gate space in LA and the other can't seem to make anything other than LAX-NRT work.
"Oh look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky! Look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky!" LM 1922-2011 Go Dawgs! G.A.T.A.
SESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3384 posts, RR: 11 Reply 22, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3295 times:
Quoting Gigneil (Reply 20): I really don't see why... as it is, they don't stand a chance against whatever retaliation UA or AA would mount, not to mention their Asian partners.
One strength DL has that AA and UA currently don't is that they will be using some 767 equipment, which have roughly 25-60 fewer seats than current AA and UA equipment on similar routings. DL already has SEA-NRT, SFO-NRT, and LAX-NRT so they already have more routes to Asia than AA from the West Coast.
PVG From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2004, 718 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3186 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15): United applied for LAX-PVG last year but was not chosen.
However there is plenty of competition at LAX also - there are 3 Chinese airlines here - Air China, China Eastern and China Southern plus all the connection opportunities on other carriers so its a crowded market already.
thanks! Let's face it, the Chinese airlines just don't cut it service wise on international flights. A US airline woud do well with this route.
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