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733s And 777 For Surinam Aw  
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4757 times:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...13/putting-surinam-on-the-map.html

Surinam Aw will be embarked in a fleet renewal plan next year , by receiving first 2 737-300s (Later 737-700s) and in October probably 1 777-200ER to replace their 747 classic.
Great to learn they have plan to expand.

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26794 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4785 times:

I wonder what this mistake was supposed to be ?

Cairo says: "New destinations we are looking at are Kingston, Jamaica, Georgetown in Barbados and Manaus in Brazil." These will be served from July.

Georgetown , Guyana or Bridgetown , Barbados ?


User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4648 times:



Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
by receiving first 2 737-300s (Later 737-700s) and in October probably 1 777-200ER to replace their 747 classic.

Sounds good. I'd rather see a a332 and 5 weekly flights between AMS and PBM. But they are planning increased frequencies, which is good. The a332 can also be maintained by KL, but has the same issue as the 772, in that they are not easily available on the market. Even the other option, a343 may be difficult to get, with the delays of the 787, but may be a bit easier to obtain.

Quoting Oa260 (Reply 1):
Georgetown , Guyana or Bridgetown , Barbados ?

My guess is Barbados.



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User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32572 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4615 times:

Good to see they plan additional Miami flights. Their re-launch has done well.


a.
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8720 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4522 times:
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Quoting Kappel (Reply 2):
My guess is Barbados.

It will be interesting to see how the flights are routed to/from BGI and CUR, and if they begin PBM-MIA-PBM nonstop. I'm a bit surprised to see KIN on the list, and not SXM. And the article also claims that "Cairo says: "We are the only airline in the Caribbean that is not being subsidised by the government," he says. "Surinam Airways is run as a private company and we sometimes think it is unfair that others in the region are bailed out." Cairo says the airline will reach a $110 million turnover this year. For the past two years it has not been profitable, but for its financial year to March 2009 it could return to the black." It was my understanding that the Suriname government is the proprietor of Surinam Airways, and that METS N.V and Residence Inn N.V. are partners of Surinam Airways.



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User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4425 times:

Why not Qatar´s A346?
I still think there´s room for an A380 between Amsterdam and Paramaribo in the future?
Is one reason they look into flying the A343 or B772 that AF already do that to nearby
Cayenne and they can expect help from AF?

[Edited 2008-12-24 17:00:57]

User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8720 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4257 times:
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Quoting Alessandro (Reply 5):
Is one reason they look into flying the A343 or B772 that AF already do that to nearby
Cayenne and they can expect help from AF?

PY doesn't compete with AF's flight to Paris. Surinam's B743 which is based at AMS, often goes tech causing major problems for this overstaffed airline with a poorly utilized fleet. MP recently withdrew from PBM and the only other carrier on the PBM-AMS-PBM route is KL. PY desperately needs to replace its 743 and the B772 would be a perfect replacement. Also, PY operates twice weekly into MIA via AUA and would like to increase frequency to MIA via CUR. Surinam Airways is currently facing increased competition on some of their routes with Insel Air's new service from CUR and Caribbean Airlines daily service to the POS hub offering continuing service to MIA. By acquiring 2 B737s PY will be able to increase cargo revenues as well. However, I have doubts in regards to PY entering the KIN market.



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User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4222 times:



Quoting SCL767 (Reply 4):
It was my understanding that the Suriname government is the proprietor of Surinam Airways, and that METS N.V and Residence Inn N.V. are partners of Surinam Airways.

I found that quote interesting as well, not sure how much truth there is in that. AFAIK your understanding is correct. One of the most important things is that the guys in high places in the government need to stop using PY as a jobs program for their friends and relatives.

Quoting Alessandro (Reply 5):
Why not Qatar´s A346?

Could be possible, but if they want to increase frequencies, I think it's too big.

Quoting Alessandro (Reply 5):
I still think there´s room for an A380 between Amsterdam and Paramaribo in the future?

Only if KL withdraws from the route. Kl will not buy the a380. Between KL and PY, there are 6 weekly 747's (KL flies the full pax 744 to PBM). So if PY wants to fly with the a380 between AMS and PWB, there is room for about 4-5 weekly flights. KL and PY basically have the same 2 class config in there aircraft, so the a380 would seat at least 600 pax.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineLijnden From Netherlands, joined Apr 2003, 561 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4143 times:
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I thought that the plane cannot be ETOPS (767/777/a330) due to airline certification? In that case a B747-400 (ex KLM?) is the most logical option to replace PZ-TCP.


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User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6849 posts, RR: 63
Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4115 times:

Surinam Airways would prefer to secure a General Electric-powered 777, as it wants KLM to maintain the aircraft.

"We plan to lease the aircraft if the price is right and we can get financing for it. Boeing 777s are very difficult to get, but we do have an option on an aircraft."


Where would a 777-200ER with GE come from? None of the lessors have any waiting to be placed, do they? I assume it isn't a new build. So... ex-who? KLM? GE? AF? BA? The list of current GE operators isn't a long one. If they hadn't specified GE I'd have guessed SQ.

[Edited 2008-12-25 02:40:59]

User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3161 times:

I honestly dont think PY will secure a B772 in the market. Considering its financial situation no lessor would want to run the risk...

Rgs,


User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3143 times:



Quoting Kappel (Reply 7):
Only if KL withdraws from the route. Kl will not buy the a380. Between KL and PY, there are 6 weekly 747's (KL flies the full pax 744 to PBM). So if PY wants to fly with the a380 between AMS and PWB, there is room for about 4-5 weekly flights. KL and PY basically have the same 2 class config in there aircraft, so the a380 would seat at least 600 pax.

Well, I think KL/AF are going to be the operator of the A380 , not Suriname Airways.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3123 times:

Could they get one of the DL/NW A-330-300s? I wonder why they would consider replacing a B-747-300 with a much smaller B-777-200ER. I would think they would want either a B-777-300/ER or A-330-300.

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3120 times:

The distance from PBM to AMS is only 4061 nm, so I would guess they could also use the non ER B-777-200 or B-777-300.

User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8720 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3083 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 10):
I honestly dont think PY will secure a B772 in the market. Considering its financial situation no lessor would want to run the risk...

The Surinamese government has the money to lease a B772.



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User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5282 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3032 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
I wonder why they would consider replacing a B-747-300 with a much smaller B-777-200ER. I would think they would want either a B-777-300/ER or A-330-300.

 confused  A 777-200 is slightly larger than an A330-300.



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User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2990 times:

How come the B733 replacing the MD80 when there are B717 available and there's not that much difference to fly an MD80 and a B717?
If Suriname exports to the European Community have 0% import duty, then PY should well study the B747-400 Combi as a replacement to their aged B743. The amount of fresh produce (vegetables, fish, flowers) the Surinamese could be exporting would make having a combi worth while.
However, a B744 Combi PBM-MIA would be too much capacity for that route.



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User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5888 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2955 times:
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Quoting PM (Reply 9):
Where would a 777-200ER with GE come from?

Could one of the Alitalia 777-200ER's go to Suriname? Are they GE powered?


User currently offlineCaribbean484 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Jan 2007, 2634 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2892 times:

I am not sure how or where PY will get 777 from, there are non on the market and PY from what I know does not have the resources to carry out ETOPS. Most likely this a/c if found would be operated by another airline.

As for the 733 its a good call but it will be interesting to see how well they can really do with these a/cs.

Quoting Oa260 (Reply 1):
Cairo says: "New destinations we are looking at are Kingston, Jamaica, Georgetown in Barbados and Manaus in Brazil." These will be served from July.

Probably shoddy reporting, Guyana, Barbados, Jamaica and Brazil. Now Jamaica is by far unrealistic, Barbados could do good, Guyana is a good option and Brazil sounds great.



Quoting SCL767 (Reply 4):
And the article also claims that "Cairo says: "We are the only airline in the Caribbean that is not being subsidised by the government," he says. "Surinam Airways is run as a private company and we sometimes think it is unfair that others in the region are bailed out." Cairo says the airline will reach a $110 million turnover this year. For the past two years it has not been profitable, but for its financial year to March 2009 it could return to the black." It was my understanding that the Suriname government is the proprietor of Surinam Airways, and that METS N.V and Residence Inn N.V. are partners of Surinam Airways.

I don't know how much truth there is in this statement, Government of Suriname is the owner of the airline, but run as a private entity I am not sure about. Now $110m is this US currency its hard to believe.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 14):
he Surinamese government has the money to lease a B772.

From what I was told the Surinamese gov't will endorse the idea.



All ah we is one family
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8720 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2875 times:
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Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 18):
Probably shoddy reporting, Guyana, Barbados, Jamaica and Brazil. Now Jamaica is by far unrealistic, Barbados could do good, Guyana is a good option and Brazil sounds great.

I agree KIN is unrealistic and I'm surprised that SXM is not on the list. POS will most likely see more flights in the future.

Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 18):
Now $110m is this US currency its hard to believe.

Yep, but as we know some state owned airlines tend to inflate their actual turnover for political reasons.

Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 18):
From what I was told the Surinamese gov't will endorse the idea.

They have mentioned several times in the past that they are interested in acquiring the B772 for a while now. The B772 would enable them to increase yields to/from AMS, and the B743 really needs to retire soon.



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User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6849 posts, RR: 63
Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2823 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
Could they get one of the DL/NW A-330-300s?

Only if DL/NW put them on the market. If you think that's likely then you're in a minority.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
I wonder why they would consider replacing a B-747-300 with a much smaller B-777-200ER.

Because the 747-300 has proved too big? You're assuming that the airline made the right decision when they took the 747.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
I would think they would want either a B-777-300/ER or A-330-300.

Because the A330-300 is bigger than a 777-200ER? It isn't.  Confused

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 17):
Could one of the Alitalia 777-200ER's go to Suriname? Are they GE powered?

They are GE and, yes, that might be an option. Good point.


User currently offlineCaribbean484 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Jan 2007, 2634 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2790 times:



Quoting SCL767 (Reply 19):
I agree KIN is unrealistic and I'm surprised that SXM is not on the list. POS will most likely see more flights in the future.

SXM sounds good with a few weekly flights and attraction for some eco-tourism.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 19):
Yep, but as we know some state owned airlines tend to inflate their actual turnover for political reasons.

Inflate? There are airlines flying out there that have more a/c than PY and they don't have that kind of turnover. If that is truly US dollars then I would like to see PYs books and how this figure came to be.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 19):
They have mentioned several times in the past that they are interested in acquiring the B772 for a while now. The B772 would enable them to increase yields to/from AMS, and the B743 really needs to retire soon.

They have one problem and that is ETOPS, its the reason why the airline is operating 743 in the first place. My guess is that PY will lease this a/c from KLM.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
Could they get one of the DL/NW A-330-300s? I wonder why they would consider replacing a B-747-300 with a much smaller B-777-200ER. I would think they would want either a B-777-300/ER or A-330-300.

Considering how hard it is to get the A330 on the market I very much doubt that NW/DL would give up an A330 when the airline needs it.
The 743 is not a very good a/c for PY, I don't think they can really fill this a/c.

The 773ER? There are non on the markets and its not an investment the Surinamese Gov't will be making, they have a better chance of getting some 777A market a/c.



All ah we is one family
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2656 times:



Quoting Alessandro (Reply 11):
Well, I think KL/AF are going to be the operator of the A380 , not Suriname Airways.

KL won't buy any a380's and AF does not operate to PBM. So if any airline is to operate the a380 on the PBM-AMS route, it will have to be PY. If KL were to buy the a380, than PBM could for sure be a route to use that aircraft, but only for 3 x weekly IMHO.

Quoting PM (Reply 20):
They are GE and, yes, that might be an option. Good point.

Is AZ getting rid of any 772's? I thought they were only selling 763's and MD80's (and regional aircraft).

Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 21):
The 743 is not a very good a/c for PY, I don't think they can really fill this a/c.

They can, but only 3x weekly, which results in horrible utilization. A smaller aircraft would allow them to increase frequency and as such, utilization.



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User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2573 times:

Hasn't this MD-11 written all over it?

User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2542 times:



Quoting PHKLM (Reply 23):
Hasn't this MD-11 written all over it?

I believe this was one of the original options a while back. However, the article does not mention it as an option anymore (but it does mention the a343 however). Like others, I do wonder how they will hadle the ETOPS issue.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 16):
How come the B733 replacing the MD80 when there are B717 available and there's not that much difference to fly an MD80 and a B717?

I agree that the 717 could be a great aircraft for PY, especially a pair of them. Does the 733 have the range to fly PBM-MIA nonstop? I think this is one of the deciding factors in this case.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 25, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2424 times:



Quoting Kappel (Reply 24):
I agree that the 717 could be a great aircraft for PY, especially a pair of them. Does the 733 have the range to fly PBM-MIA nonstop? I think this is one of the deciding factors in this case.

Both the B717 and B733 have the range to fly PBM-MIA non-stop.
Check this from http://gc.kls2.com
SAL (13°26'27"N 89°03'21"W) LAX (33°56'33"N 118°24'26"W) 312° (NW) 2016 nm
SAL (13°26'27"N 89°03'21"W) SFO (37°37'08"N 122°22'30"W) 315° (NW) 2294 nm
PBM (05°27'10"N 55°11'16"W) MIA (25°47'36"N 80°17'26"W) 312° (NW) 1887 nm
TA flew SAL-LAX/SFO w/B733.



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