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SAA Non-stop JFK-JNB  
User currently offlineSAA201 From South Africa, joined May 2001, 514 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 years 12 months 2 hours ago) and read 10571 times:

Hi all

I see the online schedules at flysaa.com have finally been updated.

From May 2009 SA204 will now operate non-stop from JFK to JNB with departure time of 11:35am instead early evening.

The IAD-JNB flight will from May 2009 operate via DKR.

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (5 years 12 months 2 hours ago) and read 10524 times:



Quoting SAA201 (Thread starter):
From May 2009 SA204 will now operate non-stop from JFK to JNB with departure time of 11:35am instead early evening.

Shows the capabilities of the A346



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 12 months ago) and read 10410 times:

This schedule will be much better for them for JFK-Africa passengerrs. Their connecting passengers from interior US to JNB can travel via IAD.

Excellent move for SAA.


User currently offlineEwRkId From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 12 months ago) and read 10388 times:

NOOOO theres goes the chances of EWR-JNB or i guess they could always transfer over Big grin

User currently offlineAA388 From Puerto Rico, joined Sep 2007, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 12 months ago) and read 10344 times:

What was stopping this route from being non stop before??


-max



Flown on A319, A320, A321, A330-200, A340-300, 737-3,5,7,8, 747-400, 757-2,3, 767-300, 777-200
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4779 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 10298 times:

Lack of competition !


The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineSAA201 From South Africa, joined May 2001, 514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10072 times:



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 1):
Shows the capabilities of the A346

Actually it will be operated by a A343!  Wink


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8498 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 9953 times:
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Quoting SAA201 (Thread starter):
From May 2009 SA204 will now operate non-stop from JFK to JNB with departure time of 11:35am instead early evening.

There is nothing NEW about JFK to JNB Nonstops by SAA, they did it before with 744 when they operated from teh American Airlines terminal with both evening and morning departures from JFK.


User currently offlineSAA201 From South Africa, joined May 2001, 514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9881 times:

I never said it was new, I was just mentioning the schedule change. I am fully aware that SAA started non-stop JFK to JNB flights in 1993 with B744's.

For the past few years the JFK to JNB flight operated via DKR, whilst the IAD to JNB flight operated non-stop. From May 2009 the revised schedule kicks in as per my original post. (Westbound flights will continue to go via Dakar) As was mentioned, the idea is to provide better connection options to various African destinations.

The plan is for the IAD-DKR-JNB flights to eventually connect with new SAA services from Dakar to Douala, Abidjan and Libreville.

See press release dated 12 Dec 2008 on flysaa.com for more info.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9202 times:

Quoting SAA201 (Reply 6):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 1):
Shows the capabilities of the A346

Actually it will be operated by a A343!  

Whoops...my bad..  

Thanks for pointing it out...!

[Edited 2008-12-26 07:26:46]


"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineOcracoke From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 695 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8880 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 7):
There is nothing NEW about JFK to JNB Nonstops by SAA, they did it before with 744 when they operated from teh American Airlines terminal with both evening and morning departures from JFK.

The one time I flew a SA B744 JFK-JNB nonstop, we left from terminal 3 in JFK.


User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8245 times:
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HEAD MODERATOR



Quoting Ocracoke (Reply 10):
The one time I flew a SA B744 JFK-JNB nonstop, we left from terminal 3 in JFK.

That was back in the days when SA and DL had a codeshare agreement. When SA entered Star Alliance and the DL codeshare agreement ended, SA moved to T4 at JFK.



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineBirdbrainz From United States of America, joined May 2005, 480 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7901 times:



Quoting AF022 (Reply 2):
This schedule will be much better for them for JFK-Africa passengerrs. Their connecting passengers from interior US to JNB can travel via IAD.

Excellent move for SAA.

While it may be good for some passengers, it's bad for anyone connecting from the western US. There's no way to get to JFK in time to catch it without flying all night to JFK, and sitting around for about 4 hrs.

The evening departure from IAD was perfect for getting to IAD from the west coast.

It seems to me that this schedule was driven more by attempting to reduce cost by not having a plane sit around in IAD or JFK all day.



A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7467 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR



Quoting Birdbrainz (Reply 12):
The evening departure from IAD was perfect for getting to IAD from the west coast.

I agree with you. When SA started services between JNB-IAD-JNB (via ACC); the flight from IAD-JNB departed in the morning, which made absolutely no sense for connecting passengers from the West. SA eventually re-timed the departure out of IAD to ± 17h40 and it seems to work for most connecting passengers on both ends, in the States, as well as in South Africa.

I make use of IAD all the time, when arriving or departing from the USA on SA flights. Needless to say, I'm not thrilled about the one-stop from IAD-JNB. Personally I don't like JFK and IMHO Kennedy offers far less Star Alliance connection opportunities than IAD (UA hub). I don't follow the real rationale behind this decision, unless there is a possible move from JFK to EWR on the cards (unbeknown to us), once CO enters Star.

The question is: "Is the buffoon running SA actually capable of successfully negotiating something like this?



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7409 times:



Quoting Birdbrainz (Reply 12):
The evening departure from IAD was perfect for getting to IAD from the west coast.

I'm confused. Isn't IAD staying evening departure and JFK moving to morning, thus allowing connection passengers to continue to use IAD to go to JNB?


User currently offlineBirdbrainz From United States of America, joined May 2005, 480 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7117 times:



Quoting SA7700 (Reply 13):
The question is: "Is the buffoon running SA actually capable of successfully negotiating something like this?

Exactly my thoughts. SA can never figure out what it wants to do. It flip-flops between a morning departure, thus allowing the aircraft a quick turnaround, or letting the plane sit and allowing better connections.

If the IAD flight stays as an evening one, then it will be ok, but the non-stop was nice.



A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
User currently offlineDelawareUSA From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7093 times:

how do they manage the crew? One Crew flys and the other one rests until they stop in Dakar? I've been on the iad/dakar/jnb and back and didn't mind the early morning stop each way.

User currently offlineFlyLKU From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 829 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6117 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 7):
There is nothing NEW about JFK to JNB Nonstops by SAA, they did it before with 744 when they operated from teh American Airlines terminal with both evening and morning departures from JFK.

Did they also do JNB - JFK non-stop with the 744?



...are we there yet?
User currently offlineAirNovaBAe146 From Canada, joined Jun 2008, 368 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5942 times:

I'm surprised by this schedule change.

Although it makes sense from an aircraft utilization perspective, most international routes are drive by the premium passenger. Business types would much prefer a 17h00ish departure from JFK than 11h30..... As such, SAA may get more productivity out of this airplane, but if they lose business at the front end of the cabin, this may backfire on them.

The aircraft doing this rotation will get to JNB about 6 hrs earlier, which should be ~8am JNB time, which doesn't allow much from SAA's schedule, with the exception of perhaps a daylight flight to LHR - which again, doesn't make sense, as most of the SA-UK market is used to doing that flight overnight.

Not a fan of this move. The old schedule was better.

AN


User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5733 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR



Quoting AF022 (Reply 14):
I'm confused. Isn't IAD staying evening departure and JFK moving to morning, thus allowing connection passengers to continue to use IAD to go to JNB?

Yes it is, but with the stopover in DKR between IAD-JNB, the time-frame for connecting pax to regional and domestic South Africa flights, gets smaller. The plane arrives later in JNB and in my case I will now have to overnight in JNB, before I can get a connecting flight out the next morning, should I choose to make use of this service.

South African Airways should realize that this is not the 90’s anymore where passengers are merely going to accept their “milk-train” type of service with “stops everywhere” in order to connect a few passengers to Abidjan, Douala and Libreville. They have forever been trying to turn Dakar into a hub of some sort and it is not working.

Travelling via Europe on BA, LH or LX seems more attractive by the day. At least then one can get off a plane and if you are in the mood, break up the long journey home with a one night stopover in Europe. IMHO is seems more rational than stopping over in DKR, sitting on the plane and arrive too late in JNB to catch a connecting domestic flight if you are coming in from IAD.


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5441 times:



Quoting AA388 (Reply 4):
What was stopping this route from being non stop before??

There's this...

Quoting Max Q (Reply 5):
Lack of competition !

... but then there's also the desire to maximize the possible load: less distance (in other words: not nonstop), more passengers and more cargo aboard the plane. More distance, as in nonstop, and you have to leave pax or cargo - in other words revenue - behind.

Quoting Birdbrainz (Reply 12):
It seems to me that this schedule was driven more by attempting to reduce cost by not having a plane sit around in IAD or JFK all day.

I seriously doubt that SAA is saving money through this change... I do agree with Max Q - it's more a matter of competition.

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 19):
Yes it is, but with the stopover in DKR between IAD-JNB, the time-frame for connecting pax to regional and domestic South Africa flights, gets smaller.

Now I'm confused - I thought that IAD was always one-stop?



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5384 times:
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HEAD MODERATOR



Quoting Leskova (Reply 20):
Now I'm confused - I thought that IAD was always one-stop?

During the Northern winter (at least) when I usually go to the States the schedule is as follows:

SA207 JNB-IAD - one-stop via DKR
SA208 IAD-JNB - non-stop


SA are changing the non-stop IAD-JNB flight to one-stop (DKR) and the previous JFK-JNB one-stop (DKR) to non-stop service. JNB-IAD-JNB will now have stop-overs in DKR in both directions. JNB-JFK (SA203) will stop over in DKR, whilst SA204 from JFK-JNB will now be the non-stop SA flight between the USA and South Africa.

I may very well eat my words, but IMHO they are making a mistake. SA208 are scheduled to arrive in JNB at 18h20 - leaving connecting domestic passengers with little or no choice other than to sleep over in JNB and catch connecting flights out the next morning.


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5327 times:



Quoting SA7700 (Reply 21):
SA208 are scheduled to arrive in JNB at 18h20 - leaving connecting domestic passengers with little or no choice other than to sleep over in JNB and catch connecting flights out the next morning.

You're right about the northern winter - you get into JNB at 18:20, you can pretty much only connect to CPT (at 20:10 on SA369 or at 20:45 on SA377), to DUR (at 20:10 on SA581 or at 21:00 on SA585). The rest won't work.

Looking at northern summer schedules in Amadeus (for the week of 15 May), SA208 is scheduled to arrive in JNB at 17:20, leaving enough time for connections to CPT (at 19:00 on SA367), DUR (at 19:00 on SA579), even ELS (at 19:30 on SA481 except on days 4 and 5).

Then again, GRJ doesn't work at all, BFN is possible exactly on Saturdays (leaving JNB on SA1025 at 18:50), KIM (like GRJ) only works going through JFK, same as MQP or UTN.

Not great, but at least CPT, DUR and, for most of the week, ELS are covered.

Of course, it sucks if you're going to GRJ, BFN, KIM, MQP or UTN... or if you're traveling in the northern winter... not to mention if you're heading to WDH, HRE, MPM, ...

Guess we'll have to see how this works out in the end - though I can certainly understand why you'd want to avoid JFK. As far as I've read (on here - so there's at least a chance that it's true...  Wink) JFK is pretty much mostly O/D traffic, so I understand that SAA doesn't much worry about connections there - on the other hand, they're now messing up connections at JNB for all but the most standard routes on the IAD flight.

At least there's hope that they'll switch to EWR nonetheless...  Wink ... aside from CO's presence there, even UA has more flights out of there than out of JFK, if I'm not mistaken - which pretty much confirms the O/D theory...



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5255 times:



Quoting SA7700 (Reply 21):
I may very well eat my words

You may be right, but things are pretty bleak at SAA I believe so I have to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one. Granted, they have made many mistakes in the past on a variety of issues, but they really need to do something about aircraft utilization.


User currently offlineStretch 8 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 2568 posts, RR: 16
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5187 times:

And so much for lack of business/global downturn cutting down the return SAA J fare IAD-JNB, it's still $7 large!!!


Maggs swings, it's a drive deep to left! The Tigers are going to the World Series!!!
25 787KQ : SA 208 is horrible for intra-African connections, always requiring long or overnight layovers. The many international organizations use SA to connect
26 AirNovaBAe146 : The real need of the Star Alliance is to get another partner in Northern Africa. The connections from IAD - JNB - onwards on SAA's network just don't
27 SA7700 : Also with a stopover in FCO. The 763ER does not have the legs to fly non-stop from IAD-ADD-IAD. The problem is that you have to leave enough time bet
28 Pfletch1228 : Actually, what SAA are doing makes perfect sense to me for the following reasons : 1. DL are dropping their JFK - CPT service and moving it to ATL - C
29 SA7700 : The problem with JFK in my opinion – there is not all that much domestic Star Alliance feed via the United network. I’m not even mentioning US Ai
30 AF022 : Ethiopian is long overdue for Star membership. Their network in Africa is second to none, and they have great connections via their very good airport
31 Andz : No that wasn't feasible due to restrictions out of JNB. I think you meant SID. SOL is in Alaska
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