LIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5280 times:
Air China (CA) have recently released and updated its long-haul schedule for next summer season. This is the situation in Europe :
Beijing (PEK)
° Athens (ATH) : CA963 1xw (Fr) with A330 (via Paris)
° Frankfurt (FRA) : CA965 daily with A330 + CA931 daily with 747
° London (LHR) : CA937 daily with A330
° Madrid (MAD) : CA907 2xw (Th-Su) with A330 (continuing to Sao Paolo, Brasil)
° Moscow (SVO) : CA909 daily with B777 + CA993 3xw (We-Fr-Su) with B767
° Munich (MUC) : CA961 4xw (Mo-We-Sa-Su) with A330
° Paris (CDG) : CA933 daily with A340 & CA963 3xw (We-Fr-Su) with A330 (on Fr continues to Athens)
° Rome (FCO) : CA939 daily with A330
° Stockholm (ARN) : CA911 3xw (Tu-Fr-Su) with A330
Shanghai (PVG)
° Frankfurt (FRA) : CA935 daily with A340
° Milan (MXP) : CA967 5xw (daily ex Mo-We) with A340
° Paris (CDG) : CA933 daily with A340 (via PEK)
Is there any reasonable explanation to operate just 1xw to Athens (via CDG)?
Anyway, no trace of any flight to new destinations such as Dusseldorf, Vienna, Manchester, Zurich, Istanbul etc..all supposed to begin in 2009.
Danfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1780 posts, RR: 9 Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5240 times:
Quoting LIPZ (Thread starter): Anyway, no trace of any flight to new destinations such as Dusseldorf, Vienna, Manchester, Zurich, Istanbul etc..all supposed to begin in 2009.
As soon as i read the thread title this popped into my mind. What has happend to these proposals? If im not mistaken they were originally planned to use 787 aircraft so whether the delay in the delivery of those has affected these services.
I know the economy cant have helped but like you say, 1 x weekly to Athens via Paris? Surely they would get more running a service to the cities you mention above (MAN, DUS etc)
Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
I guess any expansion is off the table for chinese airlines, as the government has urged the airlines not to take any deliveries in 2009. I'm guessing this is the reason.
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 52 Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5167 times:
Quoting LIPZ (Thread starter): Madrid (MAD) : CA907 2xw (Th-Su) with A330 (continuing to Sao Paolo, Brasil)
Air China will resume GRU from March 2009 (PEK-MAD-GRU).
CA has 5th freedom rights for MAD-GRU but the problem is that the route is highly competitive with IB double daily and TAM daily. In my view CA could instead operate GRU through a different route without link to GRU such as via ARD, or SVO. Perhaps CA decided for MAD because of the density of the MAD-GRU traffic.
LIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4858 times:
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 3): In my view CA could instead operate GRU through a different route without link to GRU such as via ARD, or SVO. Perhaps CA decided for MAD because of the density of the MAD-GRU traffic.
They could also opt for ATH instead. I think there is a decent market bewtween Greece and S.America not covered (anymore) by any carriers. In addition in this way (PEK-ATH-GRU) CA would grant a direct non-stop flight between PEK and ATH too (iso stopping in CDG) and with decent frequencies (2-3xw).
In Sept 2007 CAAC (Civil Aviation Administration of China) started to allocate new international routes and frequencies to the int'l 5 airlines of China (Air China, Hainan Airlines, China Southern, China Eastern, Shanghai Airlines) for the year of 2008 and 2009.
Then, in late Nov 07 CA expressed its interest to expand worldwide, expecially to Europe. At that time they were planning to introduce several new routes and cities but nothing had been materialized.
Air China to order 40 Airbus aircraft for European routes
Friday November 30, 2007
Air China plans to order 40 Airbus aircraft in the next five years to support its European expansion, President Li Jiaxiang revealed yesterday at the EU-China Business Summit in Beijing.
CA launched twice-weekly Beijing-Dubai-Athens service aboard a 767 Wednesday, and Li said it will start serving Berlin, Istanbul and Warsaw from Beijing in March and will begin flying daily from the capital to Manchester, Zurich, Dusseldorf, Vienna and Milan and from Shanghai to Rome in 2009. "This year we have made a turnaround and earned a profit on our routes to Europe for the first time," he noted.
Separately, Li predicted Airbus will continue to increase its share of the Chinese market and will reach the same level as Boeing by 2011. Airbus currently holds a 35% share in China while Boeing grabs about 60%.
SQ773 From Spain, joined Apr 2005, 179 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4549 times:
Quoting LIPZ (Reply 5): They could also opt for ATH instead. I think there is a decent market bewtween Greece and S.America not covered (anymore) by any carriers. In addition in this way (PEK-ATH-GRU) CA would grant a direct non-stop flight between PEK and ATH too (iso stopping in CDG) and with decent frequencies (2-3xw).
Kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 11952 posts, RR: 37 Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4411 times:
I guess the late delivery of 787s has also impacted its expansion plans, as well as the economic downturn. Hopefully when the 787s have arrived and the world economy is on the upswing, we might see some further growth.
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16574 posts, RR: 11 Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4332 times:
I am really glad that we will finally get the A330 from CA, instead of the 767, even though I am a Boeing fan
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 52 Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3241 times:
Quoting LIPZ (Reply 4): They could also opt for ATH instead. I think there is a decent market bewtween Greece and S.America not covered (anymore) by any carriers. In addition in this way (PEK-ATH-GRU) CA would grant a direct non-stop flight between PEK and ATH too (iso stopping in CDG) and with decent frequencies (2-3xw).
ATH/ARD/SVO-GRU are all interesting routes currently not served. However, CA opted for MAD-GRU because of the density of the market and the extremely high yields of the route. MAD-GRU has a strong O&D traffic, the problem is that CA cannot capture this market because of the weak 2 x week schedule. Therefore AC will have to rely on density, and discount Y pax, which again MAD-GRU is also strong.
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11201 posts, RR: 61 Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2993 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 3): In my view CA could instead operate GRU through a different route without link to GRU such as via ARD, or SVO. Perhaps CA decided for MAD because of the density of the MAD-GRU traffic.
Quoting LIPZ (Reply 4): They could also opt for ATH instead. I think there is a decent market bewtween Greece and S.America not covered (anymore) by any carriers. In addition in this way (PEK-ATH-GRU) CA would grant a direct non-stop flight between PEK and ATH too (iso stopping in CDG) and with decent frequencies (2-3xw).
They can only select points in Germany, Spain and West Coast of USA.
These were the countries selected by China.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
Rutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1997 posts, RR: 5 Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2802 times:
Quote: An A330 all the way to LHR? Really?
Been a 332 since October and prior to that was a B744 combi.
Self loading freight capacity not much different. UK cargo now on the Manchester all freighter.
However as CCA are Star and therefore find FRA/MUC a more enticing opportunity over LHR !
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 52 Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2697 times:
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12): They can only select points in Germany, Spain and West Coast of USA.
These were the countries selected by China.
Quoting Avianca (Reply 13): a PEK-DUS-GRU service could be interesting (all LH code-share)
Very good point, however, I doubt LH would allow CA to operate this route. But I also agree DUS could be an interesting intermediary link between GRU and PEK. DUS has an important capture area which includes some important, industrial and very rich areas in the Netherlands and Germany. It also has very strong cargo performance.
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11201 posts, RR: 61 Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2428 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 18): Very good point, however, I doubt LH would allow CA to operate this route. But I also agree DUS could be an interesting intermediary link between GRU and PEK. DUS has an important capture area which includes some important, industrial and very rich areas in the Netherlands and Germany. It also has very strong cargo performance
Agree Hardi. Varig in the past face hard time to get approval to fly to China thru FRA or MUC, and in fact never got even being a Star partner. Varig only got rights to fly thru GVA.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
OA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4978 posts, RR: 25 Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2082 times:
Quoting Oa260 (Reply 6): Is ATH-DXB with the B767 scrapped??
Yes they decided to route the flights via CDG rather than DXB.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21467 posts, RR: 24 Reply 22, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1885 times:
Quoting Kappel (Reply 15): Quoting Gkirk (Reply 14):
An A330 all the way to LHR? Really?
Probably a -200. That would be no problem. KE sometimes uses the a333 to AMS and IIRC that is a longer flight than PEK-LHR.
AF also currently operates the 332 NRT-CDG which is much further than PEK-LHR.
NRT-CDG 5256nm
PEK-LHR 4414nm
KE also uses the 333 ICN-PRG which is slightly further (4459nm) than PEK-LHR.
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