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Air China S09 Schedule To Europe  
User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6460 times:

Air China (CA) have recently released and updated its long-haul schedule for next summer season. This is the situation in Europe :


Beijing (PEK)

° Athens (ATH) : CA963 1xw (Fr) with A330 (via Paris)
° Frankfurt (FRA) : CA965 daily with A330 + CA931 daily with 747
° London (LHR) : CA937 daily with A330
° Madrid (MAD) : CA907 2xw (Th-Su) with A330 (continuing to Sao Paolo, Brasil)
° Moscow (SVO) : CA909 daily with B777 + CA993 3xw (We-Fr-Su) with B767
° Munich (MUC) : CA961 4xw (Mo-We-Sa-Su) with A330
° Paris (CDG) : CA933 daily with A340 & CA963 3xw (We-Fr-Su) with A330 (on Fr continues to Athens)
° Rome (FCO) : CA939 daily with A330
° Stockholm (ARN) : CA911 3xw (Tu-Fr-Su) with A330



Shanghai (PVG)

° Frankfurt (FRA) : CA935 daily with A340
° Milan (MXP) : CA967 5xw (daily ex Mo-We) with A340
° Paris (CDG) : CA933 daily with A340 (via PEK)



Is there any reasonable explanation to operate just 1xw to Athens (via CDG)?
Anyway, no trace of any flight to new destinations such as Dusseldorf, Vienna, Manchester, Zurich, Istanbul etc..all supposed to begin in 2009.

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDanfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1815 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6420 times:



Quoting LIPZ (Thread starter):
Anyway, no trace of any flight to new destinations such as Dusseldorf, Vienna, Manchester, Zurich, Istanbul etc..all supposed to begin in 2009.

As soon as i read the thread title this popped into my mind. What has happend to these proposals? If im not mistaken they were originally planned to use 787 aircraft so whether the delay in the delivery of those has affected these services.

I know the economy cant have helped but like you say, 1 x weekly to Athens via Paris? Surely they would get more running a service to the cities you mention above (MAN, DUS etc)



Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6350 times:



Quoting Danfearn77 (Reply 1):
What has happend to these proposals?

I guess any expansion is off the table for chinese airlines, as the government has urged the airlines not to take any deliveries in 2009. I'm guessing this is the reason.



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User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6347 times:



Quoting LIPZ (Thread starter):
Madrid (MAD) : CA907 2xw (Th-Su) with A330 (continuing to Sao Paolo, Brasil)

Air China will resume GRU from March 2009 (PEK-MAD-GRU).

CA has 5th freedom rights for MAD-GRU but the problem is that the route is highly competitive with IB double daily and TAM daily. In my view CA could instead operate GRU through a different route without link to GRU such as via ARD, or SVO. Perhaps CA decided for MAD because of the density of the MAD-GRU traffic.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6038 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 3):
In my view CA could instead operate GRU through a different route without link to GRU such as via ARD, or SVO. Perhaps CA decided for MAD because of the density of the MAD-GRU traffic.

They could also opt for ATH instead. I think there is a decent market bewtween Greece and S.America not covered (anymore) by any carriers. In addition in this way (PEK-ATH-GRU) CA would grant a direct non-stop flight between PEK and ATH too (iso stopping in CDG) and with decent frequencies (2-3xw).


User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5995 times:



Quoting Danfearn77 (Reply 1):
What has happend to these proposals?

In Sept 2007 CAAC (Civil Aviation Administration of China) started to allocate new international routes and frequencies to the int'l 5 airlines of China (Air China, Hainan Airlines, China Southern, China Eastern, Shanghai Airlines) for the year of 2008 and 2009.
Then, in late Nov 07 CA expressed its interest to expand worldwide, expecially to Europe. At that time they were planning to introduce several new routes and cities but nothing had been materialized.


Air China to order 40 Airbus aircraft for European routes
Friday November 30, 2007

Air China plans to order 40 Airbus aircraft in the next five years to support its European expansion, President Li Jiaxiang revealed yesterday at the EU-China Business Summit in Beijing.

CA launched twice-weekly Beijing-Dubai-Athens service aboard a 767 Wednesday, and Li said it will start serving Berlin, Istanbul and Warsaw from Beijing in March and will begin flying daily from the capital to Manchester, Zurich, Dusseldorf, Vienna and Milan and from Shanghai to Rome in 2009. "This year we have made a turnaround and earned a profit on our routes to Europe for the first time," he noted.

Separately, Li predicted Airbus will continue to increase its share of the Chinese market and will reach the same level as Boeing by 2011. Airbus currently holds a 35% share in China while Boeing grabs about 60%.


ATWOnline


User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27248 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5749 times:



Quoting LIPZ (Thread starter):
Athens (ATH) : CA963 1xw (Fr) with A330 (via Paris)



Quoting LIPZ (Thread starter):
Paris (CDG) : CA933 daily with A340 & CA963 3xw (We-Fr-Su) with A330 (on Fr continues to Athens)

Great to see they are keeping CDG-ATH-CDG , Its a great route as you can see in my recent Trip report::

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...ums/trip_reports/read.main/138883/

Is ATH-DXB with the B767 scrapped??


User currently offlineSQ773 From Spain, joined Apr 2005, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5729 times:



Quoting LIPZ (Reply 5):
They could also opt for ATH instead. I think there is a decent market bewtween Greece and S.America not covered (anymore) by any carriers. In addition in this way (PEK-ATH-GRU) CA would grant a direct non-stop flight between PEK and ATH too (iso stopping in CDG) and with decent frequencies (2-3xw).

Could a 332 do ATH-GRU ?
 scratchchin 


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12565 posts, RR: 35
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5591 times:

I guess the late delivery of 787s has also impacted its expansion plans, as well as the economic downturn. Hopefully when the 787s have arrived and the world economy is on the upswing, we might see some further growth.

User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17126 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5512 times:

I am really glad that we will finally get the A330 from CA, instead of the 767, even though I am a Boeing fan  Smile


Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlinePlaneWasted From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4597 times:



Quoting B747forever (Reply 9):
I am really glad that we will finally get the A330 from CA, instead of the 767, even though I am a Boeing fan

Agree. I flew their 767 from ARN last year and the airplane felt very old. Water was dripping on me from the ceiling during takeoff and landing!


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4421 times:



Quoting LIPZ (Reply 4):
They could also opt for ATH instead. I think there is a decent market bewtween Greece and S.America not covered (anymore) by any carriers. In addition in this way (PEK-ATH-GRU) CA would grant a direct non-stop flight between PEK and ATH too (iso stopping in CDG) and with decent frequencies (2-3xw).

ATH/ARD/SVO-GRU are all interesting routes currently not served. However, CA opted for MAD-GRU because of the density of the market and the extremely high yields of the route. MAD-GRU has a strong O&D traffic, the problem is that CA cannot capture this market because of the weak 2 x week schedule. Therefore AC will have to rely on density, and discount Y pax, which again MAD-GRU is also strong.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11458 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4173 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 3):
In my view CA could instead operate GRU through a different route without link to GRU such as via ARD, or SVO. Perhaps CA decided for MAD because of the density of the MAD-GRU traffic.



Quoting LIPZ (Reply 4):
They could also opt for ATH instead. I think there is a decent market bewtween Greece and S.America not covered (anymore) by any carriers. In addition in this way (PEK-ATH-GRU) CA would grant a direct non-stop flight between PEK and ATH too (iso stopping in CDG) and with decent frequencies (2-3xw).

They can only select points in Germany, Spain and West Coast of USA.
These were the countries selected by China.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5934 posts, RR: 40
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4140 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):
They can only select points in Germany, Spain and West Coast of USA.
These were the countries selected by China.

a PEK-DUS-GRU service could be interesting (all LH code-share)



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24961 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4009 times:

An A330 all the way to LHR? Really?


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3998 times:



Quoting Gkirk (Reply 14):
An A330 all the way to LHR? Really?

Probably a -200. That would be no problem. KE sometimes uses the a333 to AMS and IIRC that is a longer flight than PEK-LHR.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24961 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3988 times:



Quoting Kappel (Reply 15):
Probably a -200.

I would have thought there would have been demand for a larger a/c such as an A340 or 777



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineRutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3028 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3982 times:
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Quote:
An A330 all the way to LHR? Really?

Been a 332 since October and prior to that was a B744 combi.
Self loading freight capacity not much different. UK cargo now on the Manchester all freighter.

However as CCA are Star and therefore find FRA/MUC a more enticing opportunity over LHR !


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3877 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):
They can only select points in Germany, Spain and West Coast of USA.
These were the countries selected by China.



Quoting Avianca (Reply 13):
a PEK-DUS-GRU service could be interesting (all LH code-share)

Very good point, however, I doubt LH would allow CA to operate this route. But I also agree DUS could be an interesting intermediary link between GRU and PEK. DUS has an important capture area which includes some important, industrial and very rich areas in the Netherlands and Germany. It also has very strong cargo performance.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11458 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3608 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 18):
Very good point, however, I doubt LH would allow CA to operate this route. But I also agree DUS could be an interesting intermediary link between GRU and PEK. DUS has an important capture area which includes some important, industrial and very rich areas in the Netherlands and Germany. It also has very strong cargo performance

Agree Hardi. Varig in the past face hard time to get approval to fly to China thru FRA or MUC, and in fact never got even being a Star partner. Varig only got rights to fly thru GVA.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2642 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3280 times:

Any updates on the flights to YYZ and IAD in '09. Have they been shelved as well?

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5351 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3262 times:



Quoting Oa260 (Reply 6):
Is ATH-DXB with the B767 scrapped??

Yes they decided to route the flights via CDG rather than DXB.



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User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25871 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3065 times:



Quoting Kappel (Reply 15):
Quoting Gkirk (Reply 14):
An A330 all the way to LHR? Really?

Probably a -200. That would be no problem. KE sometimes uses the a333 to AMS and IIRC that is a longer flight than PEK-LHR.

AF also currently operates the 332 NRT-CDG which is much further than PEK-LHR.

NRT-CDG 5256nm
PEK-LHR 4414nm

KE also uses the 333 ICN-PRG which is slightly further (4459nm) than PEK-LHR.


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