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Will UA Restart Service To India? Or Even RTW?  
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7169 times:

UA used to fly round the world route which included HKG-DEL-LHR. And they announced ORD-DEL prior to 9.11 but was put on hold after 9.11.

India is an important emerging market. Will they consider restarting service to DEL? Or even RTW?

61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16866 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7145 times:

The best route UAL could launch would be SFO-Bangalore, however UA does not have the aircraft presently capable of operating this route. Perhaps well see a IAD-DEL flight.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineN104UA From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 914 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7106 times:

If they flew IAD-DEL or LAX-DEL I could also see them flying RTW through LHR or FRA but with the LH alliance I see no reason to fly to FRA so the best guess is LHR for a RTW


"Learn the rules, so you know how to break them properly." -H.H. The Dalai Lama
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8375 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6862 times:
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Doubt United will fly RTW again. India nonstop from IAD or Chicago could happen but what plane would UA use, its 777-200ER aren't capable of USA to India nonstop. With all the capacity from India to the USA going to a place less served like South Africa might be better.

IAD to JNB sounds good to me, SAA could serve ORD via Dakar.


User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2501 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6844 times:

RTW is an "old school" route that's probably gone the way of the dinosaurs, particularly with the ever-growing *A which can efficiency connect people through Europe and Asia.

That said, UA might one day consider ORD-DEL and IAD-DEL which are a whopping 20nm difference (~6500nm) and are well within a 744's range (with few, if any, load restrictions). A 777 would seem to make more sense since I'm not sure you'd need the 744's size. If anything, I'd say IAD-DEL would be a possibility at some point due to the allure of linking capitals but as everyone has already mentioned, UA is pretty tight on aircraft at the moment.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 3):
IAD to JNB sounds good to me, SAA could serve ORD via Dakar.

Yes, but IIRC, DL already serves that route from JFK I'm not sure there's much demand left otherwise you'd have already heard rumblings about it.


777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2896 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6314 times:
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Does UA have any 747's in the dessert?


The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6208 times:



Quoting VC10er (Reply 5):

Yes at least 6 in VCV and others that have been returned to their leaser back after 9/11. If the service is started it would not be in the 747. UA just closed the 747 base in DCA and are prolly not in any hurry to re-open it.

There has been talk by some of the ALPA MECs about the legalities of the flight from IAD and that only usually happens when something is on the brink of dropping. Though the attacks have prolly really curved that idea.

So there is a good chance since some of the MECs have been talking with DL about it but who knows.


User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2190 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6155 times:



Quoting 777fan (Reply 4):
Yes, but IIRC, DL already serves that route from JFK I'm not sure there's much demand left otherwise you'd have already heard rumblings about it.

Correct. Right now the US-India market is over saturated with capacity. An example would be how DL started direct JFK-BOM flights back in 2006, and soon CO launched EWR-BOM and AI commenced nonstop JFK-BOM flights as well. Add 9W flying JFK-BRU-MAA and EWR-BRU-BOM and suddenly the original starter, DL, decides to move its BOM flight from JFK to ATL. Also with the economy in recession I don't think that the surge for flights to China and India that we saw 3-4 years ago will return for awhile.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6021 times:

Will we see the come back of HKG-DEL-LHR?

User currently offlineN104UA From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 914 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6003 times:



Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 6):
UA just closed the 747 base in DCA and are prolly not in any hurry to re-open it.

I would love to see a 744 at DCA



"Learn the rules, so you know how to break them properly." -H.H. The Dalai Lama
User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5819 times:



Quoting N104UA (Reply 9):
I would love to see a 744 at DCA

DCA domicile........


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5797 times:



Quoting 777fan (Reply 4):
That said, UA might one day consider ORD-DEL

With AA on the route, I don't see that happening anytime soon. Because of the stage length of the flight, even AA has stated it's a difficult flight to make revenues on.

Quoting 777fan (Reply 4):
IAD-DEL

That's a potential route.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 7):
Quoting 777fan (Reply 4):
Yes, but IIRC, DL already serves that route from JFK I'm not sure there's much demand left otherwise you'd have already heard rumblings about it.

Correct. Right now the US-India market is over saturated with capacity.

 checkmark 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 9423 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5765 times:



Quoting 777fan (Reply 4):
Yes, but IIRC, DL already serves that route from JFK I'm not sure there's much demand left otherwise you'd have already heard rumblings about it.

Nope its via ATL.

Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 6):
There has been talk by some of the ALPA MECs about the legalities of the flight from IAD and that only usually happens when something is on the brink of dropping. Though the attacks have prolly really curved that idea.

So there is a good chance since some of the MECs have been talking with DL about it but who knows.

Ok i have no idea what your talking about............can you say it slower?  Wink



yep.
User currently offlineEwRkId From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5730 times:

Perhaps when CO joins * alliance, UA could codeshare on the EWR-DEL and EWR-BOM route that CO is already offering.

User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5957 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5613 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 12):
Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 6):
There has been talk by some of the ALPA MECs about the legalities of the flight from IAD and that only usually happens when something is on the brink of dropping. Though the attacks have prolly really curved that idea.

So there is a good chance since some of the MECs have been talking with DL about it but who knows.

Ok i have no idea what your talking about............can you say it slower?

Allow me to translate.....

There have been rumors (supposedly as high as UA ALPA MEC) that UA is looking at starting a IAD-DEL flight. However those rumors were mostly before the attacks in BOM which may have curtailed the idea for the moment.

Quoting EwRkId (Reply 13):
Perhaps when CO joins * alliance, UA could codeshare on the EWR-DEL and EWR-BOM route that CO is already offering.

I'm sure they will, which is one reason why I'm not sure that UA would bother with a IAD-DEL route unless the market truly demands, and can support, both CO and UA non-stops that would presumably be flown under the JV agreements.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 9423 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5379 times:



Quoting United1 (Reply 16):
There have been rumors (supposedly as high as UA ALPA MEC) that UA is looking at starting a IAD-DEL flight. However those rumors were mostly before the attacks in BOM which may have curtailed the idea for the moment.

and the last part about Delta? thanks btw  Wink



yep.
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5957 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5340 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 22):
and the last part about Delta? thanks btw

No idea, I don't know why UA ALPA would discuss crew legalities with DL, UA already operates flights that are comparable to IAD-DEL in length.

Keep in mind its rumor not fact at this point....



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinePhoenix9 From Canada, joined Aug 2007, 2546 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5299 times:

I am not at all knowledgeable how the route networks work...so please don't flame me.  Smile

That being said...I think JNB might actually work out much better than expected if DEL/BOM/Bangalore is the final destination. There is a very large Indian population in JNB and South Africa in general. So a route like ORD/ATL - JNB - DEL/BOM/Bangalore might work out well



Life only makes sense when you look at it backwards.
User currently offlineShanxz From Singapore, joined Apr 2006, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5185 times:



Quoting EwRkId (Reply 13):
Perhaps when CO joins * alliance, UA could codeshare on the EWR-DEL and EWR-BOM route that CO is already offering.

 checkmark  Highly likely.

But here's a bigger question. Why would anyone want to fly United to India unless they offer the cheapest of all fares? And that's going to be hard to do with Air-India undercutting everyone generally.

Moreover, United has no differentiation whatsoever with respect to other American carriers. Recently, when Rohit Bhargava - a marketing guru, was asked "Which company desperately needs a personality?", he replied "United Airlines" without hesitation.

And if it's the charm of earning miles on Star Alliance, CO is joining, AI is joining and you can fly LH, OS, LX and a number of other carriers one stop, and earn all the miles you like.

So, why would anyone want to fly United to India?



Airlines are in the service business, not transport. Brand matters...
User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5157 times:



Quoting Shanxz (Reply 20):
But here's a bigger question. Why would anyone want to fly United to India unless they offer the cheapest of all fares? And that's going to be hard to do with Air-India undercutting everyone generally.

Moreover, United has no differentiation whatsoever with respect to other American carriers. Recently, when Rohit Bhargava - a marketing guru, was asked "Which company desperately needs a personality?", he replied "United Airlines" without hesitation.

And if it's the charm of earning miles on Star Alliance, CO is joining, AI is joining and you can fly LH, OS, LX and a number of other carriers one stop, and earn all the miles you like.

So, why would anyone want to fly United to India?

SHANXZ,
i have never heard of rohit and have not seen him quoted on a.net till now so he is nothing more than peter greenberg doing a trip report on 10mg ambien flight from phl to pit.....i flew ua from iad-fco (reconfig 3 class 763) 2 weeks ago and it was shocking to see the difference that ua done on their intl product, it was 180 degree difference from 6 months ago and any us carrier should be rethinking their intl c class after they do a hop on ual on their 763



bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineShanxz From Singapore, joined Apr 2006, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5093 times:



Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 21):
it was shocking to see the difference that ua done on their intl product, it was 180 degree difference from 6 months ago and any us carrier should be rethinking their intl c class after they do a hop on ual on their 763

 white  Well, I'm glad that there's a positive change. It's always welcome. But is this an exception rather than the rule?

I'm sure more people will agree with me than disagree that UA has had an un-differentiated product till now, especially when compared with other US carriers. And they have a long way to go to match the efficiency of LH or the service of SQ.



Airlines are in the service business, not transport. Brand matters...
User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4845 times:

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 17):
and the last part about Delta? thanks btw Wink



Quoting United1 (Reply 18):

Just talk about how DL sets up the crew breaks, flight hours, etc etc on Ultra Long Haul flights. Nothing formal just chit chat when some of the guys meet for meetings.

[Edited 2008-12-28 11:36:50]

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25332 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4736 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 16):
Quoting Klwright69 (Reply 18):
I prefer to call it a "relic of the past." A route for prestige and novelty that no one gives a SHIT about anymore, whatsoever, other than a.net folks....


Air New Zealand seems to think differently and I don't think they do it for "prestige and novelty."

NZ isn't operating RTW because it "thinks differently" than UA but because it needed a 2nd daily AKL-LHR flight which is the primary market, and AKL-HKG-LHR is actually slightly shorter (241nm) than their traditional AKL-LAX-LHR route.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25260 posts, RR: 85
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4730 times:
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Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 24):
NZ isn't operating RTW because it "thinks differently" than UA but because it needed a 2nd daily AKL-LHR flight which is the primary market, and AKL-HKG-LHR is actually slightly shorter (241nm) than their traditional AKL-LAX-LHR route.

I can still fly RTW on Air NZ. I've done so.  confused 

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineNickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4769 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 25):


Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 24):
NZ isn't operating RTW because it "thinks differently" than UA but because it needed a 2nd daily AKL-LHR flight which is the primary market, and AKL-HKG-LHR is actually slightly shorter (241nm) than their traditional AKL-LAX-LHR route.

I can still fly RTW on Air NZ. I've done so. confused

mariner

NZ do still fly RTW. I think Viscount724 was saying that in order for NZ to add another flight to LHR, they had to do it via another country than the US to bilateral requirements. Therefore, if NZ was to fly to London via an existing destination, they had to do it via Vancouver or Asia. If done via Asia, the airline would be able to offer RTW service.


25 WorldTraveler : India is an important market and UA should be looking at serving it with their own metal. Whether they can fly an airplane to do it is another questio
26 Mariner : I'm totally confused. That is the point I was making - that I can fly RTW on Air NZ - with that one airline, not with alliances or code shares. It ha
27 NorthstarBoy : Would an (Indian) government aircraft size/capacity restriction come into play again? I recall from conversations with a family friend who was a UA ca
28 Viscount724 : That was my point, that NZ isn't flying RTW because they wanted to become a RTW carrier but because they needed another routing to LHR. Since they ch
29 Mariner : I don't know that anyone does it - or has done it - just to become a RTW operator, but I could easily imagine it playing some part in Air NZ's thinki
30 BriGuyinHou : Can someone please share with me what city/airport code is RTW? I've tried looking it up and also scrolling my cursor over the letters but I get nothi
31 Viscount724 : It's not an airport code, just a common abbreviation for "Round-The-World"
32 777fan : Man, I hope you're kidding. It's 'Round The World. I think the big difference between the RTW flights of yesteryear and those offered today is presti
33 OB1783P : Yes, cute little marzipan ones on the carrot cake, but only in first class.
34 United1 : The US and India have open skies at this point so there would be no restrictions. The Hong Kong government at the time also had issues with the fligh
35 Mariner : One mo' time - I don't know of many - or any - operator who did it just to say they offered RTW. As with the Qantas routes - see post #31 - Qantas al
36 Post contains links 777fan : Well, according to the beloved "Wiki", Pan Am more or less did just that in the days following WWII: PA 001 left SFO and flew westbound to Honolulu,
37 Shanxz : I guess this was before liberalization of the Indian aviation industry - when the govt. still could dictate how many seats to be flown between which
38 Mariner : Because - in those days - Pan Am was for many people in those areas, the airline of choice, for safety, reliability and service. Because - in those d
39 United1 : Flying around the world is prestigious whether is was back in the 40s or today however PA or UA or whoever would not have started the flight if they
40 Viscount724 : Unfortunately, he rarely did. Pan Am had very few years where they earned satisfactory profits. Their safety record also wasn't the greatest, and the
41 Mariner : Even if that is true, Juan Trippe said he was "investing in the future" and the perception was something else. And I should also add that there was a
42 PP705 : In the present scenario, it is highly unlikely that UA will re-start service to India on its own metal. I think they have code share flights to India
43 Nimish : Given their close ties (and revenue sharing?) with LH - I see no reason for UA to resume service to India. They already have the desired reach and rev
44 PP705 : Agree 100%. US - DEL & BOM have too much capacity - nonstops, direct and one stops. SFO-BLR is a very lucrative market. I think UA code shares the LH
45 Shanxz : Add to that the reliability that comes with LH metal
46 CALSKYGUY : It may have been a reason DL dropped service, however CO flights to BOM and DEL frequently fly over Afghan and Iranian airspace.
47 Jfk777 : DElta and AA also have alliances with European airlines and they fly NONSTOP from teh USA to Inida in addition to connections over LHR and CDG.
48 ItalianFlyer : IMHO the UA "Round the World" flts 1 & 2 adventure of the 90s had more to do with gimmickry than economics. As many people have pointed out, now that
49 WorldTraveler : I don't believe that requirement is in effect now. The US does have a major military operation in Afghanistan - while it isn't stable yet it isn't th
50 Airzim : No, the prime motivation was they 707's couldn't make it across the Pacific without stopping somewhere. Pan Am had the luxury of traffic rights betwe
51 AirNZ : Sorry, but can you please logically explain to me how a RTW flight is "limited.....even somewhat irrelevant"? 'Limited' could easily mean you have no
52 ItalianFlyer : I was speaking in terms of North American legacy carriers. Sorry....didnt mean to offend you. UA/DL/CO/AA/AC have inked alliances with European and A
53 Timz : You guys are using two different definitions. What he's saying is "somewhat irrelevant" is an actual RTW flight, like UA had in 2001-- a flight that
54 Viscount724 : Not just Singapore Except it used 3 different aircraft if memory correct. It was only one flight due to the use of a single flight number.
55 Mariner : No indeed, not just Singapore. Naughty, naughty me. For the record - Malaysia Singapore Airlines split into two separate airlines, to become Singapor
56 Timz : In 2001 the timetable showed a thru 744. It was their earlier attempt, in 1998 or whenever it was, that went 744-763-744.[Edited 2008-12-29 17:05:24]
57 ADent : Where would UA get the metal for these flights? They are cutting back and presumably would have to cut back a route (or two) to get to India. Aren't a
58 Shanxz : Was this a legal requirement for US carriers in the past - not to fly over Iran/Afghanistan etc? And are there other carriers around the world that e
59 Post contains images United1 : UA and LH only revenue share across the Atlantic the rest of the two companies routes are simply code-shares. You will likely see UA and CO however r
60 VC10er : Moreover, United has no differentiation whatsoever with respect to other American carriers. Recently, when Rohit Bhargava - a marketing guru, was ask
61 OURBOEING : There is a very large Indian community in the Washington DC/Virginia/Maryland area and they have been waiting for a non-stop between the area and Indi
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