UPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1 Posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3999 times:
I have been wondering why is CCS not able to sustain a non-stop link to NYC giving the short distance between them and considering CCS is a major city when compared to neighbors like BOG, PTY, GYE all of which sustain one or more daily services to NYC.
Besides the political fiasco between US and Venezuela, a slow reduction in service has been made over the last 15-20 years from back in the days AA and UA had daily widebodies from JFK until recently when AA first and CO after both dropped their CCS service.
I know US-Vzla traffic is heavily oriented to Florida anyway I still think filling a daily 738 on CCS-JFK (AA) or CCS-EWR (CO) should be profitable specially with the lack of competition and the amount of onward connections NYC might offer to passengers out of CCS. At the end what's going on is that US carriers are taking the easy path routing pax through their hubs (AA=MIA, DL=ATL, CO=IAH)
Aadfw From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 34 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3975 times:
AA Currently flys the route Friday and Sunday to CCS and Saturday and Monday to JFK. The flight is currently operated using 757 equipment.
COEWRNJ From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1061 posts, RR: 21 Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3937 times:
I believe CO serves the route at least a few days per week seasonally with a 73G unless they have cancelled it all together.
Corinthians From United States of America, joined May 2008, 277 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3916 times:
Well, there isn't a huge Venezuelan population here to begin with, so that would hurt VFR traffic. Lots of Colombians and Ecuadorians live in New York, which is why you have more service to those countries. Most Venezuelans in the US are concentrated in South Florida.
Jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7350 posts, RR: 7 Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3908 times:
Blame Hugo Chavez for sticking to teh Gringos, he has made life for USA airlines flying to CCS, hell. Santa Barbara, Venezuelan airlines ,flies several times daily to Miami using 757's, I don'y know if they fly to New York.
Venezuela747 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1407 posts, RR: 5 Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3845 times:
Didn't the Vzla govt put a hold on CO EWR-CCS for some bureaucratic crap?
Alianza From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 230 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3584 times:
Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Thread starter): a slow reduction in service has been made over the last 15-20 years from back in the days AA and UA had daily widebodies from JFK
Avensa / ServiVensa served both JFK - CCS and MIA - CCS. It used to be crazy, very hard, to try to get a seat in December, to or from CCS. I flew both itineraries, round trip, about 9 years ago. I believe it was a daily 732 , and the food service was pretty good. The flights were full. Although, this was around a time when Avensa had been banned from landing in the U.S. due to violations. Then, ceased international flights about 6 years ago.
Caribbean484 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Jan 2007, 2549 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3467 times:
Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 5): Blame Hugo Chavez for sticking to teh Gringos, he has made life for USA airlines flying to CCS, hell. Santa Barbara, Venezuelan airlines ,flies several times daily to Miami using 757's, I don'y know if they fly to New York.
Yep, travel to Venezuela from the US is now a puppet show because of Chavez. NK wants to fly CCS for the longest time and has yet to get approval from the Venezuelan Civil Aviation.
Quoting Corinthians (Reply 4): Well, there isn't a huge Venezuelan population here to begin with, so that would hurt VFR traffic. Lots of Colombians and Ecuadorians live in New York, which is why you have more service to those countries. Most Venezuelans in the US are concentrated in South Florida.
While this is true, NYC is a very good business route and has performed well in the past with airlines. The problem IMO is the lack of investment by the airlines and of course the major issue Chavez and his arrogance.
NYC can perform well to Venezuela.
UPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3288 times:
Quoting Aadfw (Reply 1): AA Currently flys the route Friday and Sunday to CCS and Saturday and Monday to JFK. The flight is currently operated using 757 equipment.
Didn't know AA reinstate JFK-CCS as the last I checked about 2 years ago it was not bookable,
BTW, do you know if current 2xweekly service is what the market demands or any increase is restricted by Venezuelan authorities?
Quoting Corinthians (Reply 4): Well, there isn't a huge Venezuelan population here to begin with, so that would hurt VFR traffic.
That's true although IMO Caracas and NYC are large enough markets not to rely on VFR, bussiness and leisure traffic should be enough to fill 200 seats a day without counting on gov't officials related to UN offices in NYC area.
Jigarciar From Colombia, joined May 2005, 87 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2720 times:
Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Thread starter): I have been wondering why is CCS not able to sustain a non-stop link to NYC giving the short distance between them and considering CCS is a major city when compared to neighbors like BOG, PTY, GYE all of which sustain one or more daily services to NYC.
From BOG, we get 4 daily nonstop flights to/from NYC:
JFK:
AV20/21 on Boeing 752/762/763
AV284/285 on Airbus A319
DL396/395 on Boeing 752
EWR:
CO880/881 on Boeing 73G
I believe that some Venezuelans may connect with AV's 6 daily CCS-BOG to JFK (specially).
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4094 posts, RR: 5 Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2650 times:
Quoting Viasa (Reply 12): Viasa flow this route in the mid 90s with the Airbus A300B4 four times a week.
northbound:
VA 800 1__4___ CCS-JFK
VA 802 _____6_ CCS-PMV-JFK
VA 816 ______7 CCS-JFK-YTO
southbound:
VA 801 1__4___ JFK-CCS
VA 803 _____6_ JFK-PMV-CCS
VA 817 ______7 YTO-JFK-CCS
The existence of flights linking Caracas and New York City area were dated from several years before.
For illustrative purposes, VIASA operated the following schedules during the early 70s:
Caracas - New York...........................3x weekly..........D8S
Caracas - New York - Washington.......2x weekly..........D8S
Caracas - Washington - New York.......2x weekly..........D8S
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11201 posts, RR: 61 Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2625 times:
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Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Thread starter): I have been wondering why is CCS not able to sustain a non-stop link to NYC giving the short distance between them and considering CCS is a major city when compared to neighbors like BOG, PTY, GYE all of which sustain one or more daily services to NYC.
IMO, CCS is so connected to Florida (MIA mainly) that this reduces a lot the VFR and business market between CCS and JFK. JFK demand probably flies thru MIA, or even thru BOG as mentioned by JiGarciar on reply 14
Does a daily non-stop works ? Probably will work, but need to be launched way in advance, and something important...schedule. You demand an late afternoon departure at JFK (does not help to get connections and to improve flight performance, and increase the focus on O&D) to be in CCS late night, and the ideal schedule would be a 1:40 AM departure (terrible) to get to JFK early morning (6 AM), but them, unless is AA/DL, the plane will need to wait 11 hours to fly back to CCS. Profitable even for a 73G ? I don't know.
MIA offers a lot of options!
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
UPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2542 times:
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 16): You demand an late afternoon departure at JFK (does not help to get connections and to improve flight performance, and increase the focus on O&D) to be in CCS late night, and the ideal schedule would be a 1:40 AM departure (terrible) to get to JFK early morning (6 AM), but them, unless is AA/DL, the plane will need to wait 11 hours to fly back to CCS. Profitable even for a 73G ? I don't know.
US-CCS schedule have been forever southbound in late afternoon, aircraft overnighting at CCS and northbound early morning. It's still the way CO's IAH-CCS, AA's DFW-CCS and DL's ATL-CCS plus one of the AA's MIA-CCS operate and how past services from JFK (AA, UA, PA), IAD (UA), LAX (PA) did operate.
Getting to JFK around noon gives plenty of connections to the rest of US and Canada and even far east Asia, same way departing from JFK to CCS after 1600.
AC recently tried a redeye from YYZ to improve utilization and taking advantage of a longer flying time, but AFAIK it isn't working as expected.
RCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4284 posts, RR: 13 Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2490 times:
Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Thread starter): CCS is a major city when compared to neighbors like BOG, PTY, GYE all of which sustain one or more daily services to NYC.
Just so you know, BOG is a bigger city in population and size of the economy. Plus the immigrant colombian population in the area is huge.
PTY is a hub, and also a huge banking and tourism center in the americas.
The GYE flight is fed from lots of other cities.
But just to ask a question, doesn't CO fly CCS-EWR once per week?
CCS doesn't have a non stop daily flight because there are no strong links between venezuela and new york. All venezuelan business in north america seems to be focusing more and more in south florida. All that and the lack of decent and economically viable airlines make it very hard.
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11201 posts, RR: 61 Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2406 times:
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Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 17): Getting to JFK around noon gives plenty of connections to the rest of US and Canada and even far east Asia, same way departing from JFK to CCS after 1600
Not if you want to reach LAX or West Coast. My point is that, MIA handles very well VFR, O&D and connections. Market for JFK is so limited without strong business and VFR ties.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
Avianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5857 posts, RR: 40 Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2349 times:
Quoting Alianza (Reply 8): Avensa / ServiVensa served both JFK - CCS and MIA - CCS. It used to be crazy, very hard, to try to get a seat in December, to or from CCS.
yes it was always full with non-revs.,,
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 20): Not if you want to reach LAX or West Coast. My point is that, MIA handles very well VFR, O&D and connections.
UPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2280 times:
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 20): Not if you want to reach LAX or West Coast.
Do you mean connections out of JFK to LAX or west coast are limited after 1400? Correct me if I'm wrong but just to LAX AA has 4 or 5 flights out of JFK after 1400 and CO has another 3 out of EWR.........
Luisde8cd From Venezuela, joined Aug 2004, 2516 posts, RR: 34 Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2275 times:
Quoting Avianca (Reply 21):
I think best way is with DL via ATL-.
It's easier with CM via PTY You arrive at the US in LAX at about 2am, thus you clear inmigration and customs real quick, no need to take bags and recheck them in ATL, MIA or some other US gateway.
Saludos,
Luis
Viasa we miss you!. Good times will return after Chavez is gone!
UPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2109 times:
Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 19): CO has been flying IAH-CCS as a redeye for more than 2 years now. Leaving IAH at 11:59 pm and arriving at CCS at around 6am.
My bad, didn't know it since last time I flew it was in 06 and it still was an evening southbound and morning northbound
25 RCS763AV: Why would you add four hours flying time going through JFK when there are IAH, PTY, BOG, MIA and even ATL to choose from?
26 UPPERDECKFAN: You're getting me wrong, I just find odd not to be a non stop link between NYC and CCS. IMO Caracas is a large enough market for a flight to NYC to b
27 JMBWEEBOY: Lets go further back! I remember when Pan Am flew a 747 on the JFK-CCS route and Viasa flew their own metal (DC10s dubbed El Coloso) and 747s leased
28 RCS763AV: CCS-BOG 1 and a half hours BOG-LAX 7 hours CCS-PTY 2 hours PTY-LAX 6 hours CCS-JFK 4 and half hours JFK-LAX 7 hours So its at least three hours more.
30 Avianca: well a 2am arrival isn't that great. ATL is a breeze for immigration, specially as the CCS flight is arriving before the europe bound bank. and you a
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You arrive at the US in LAX at about 2am, thus you clear inmigration and customs real quick, no need to take bags and recheck them in ATL, MIA or some other US gateway.
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