Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
DOT: WN Largest Airline For 2008 Paxs Carried.  
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5686 posts, RR: 52
Posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4301 times:

DOT Ranking
The Department of Transportation’s Bureau of Transportation Statistics recently ranked Southwest Airlines as the top airline in terms of number of passengers. The DOT stated that Southwest flew more Passengers in 2008 than any other airline.


Got this off my employee site, couldn't find anything at DOT...

This had to be done before October, before NW/DL merged? If so..which title is WN holding for 20008, World or USA since WN holds the worlds largest for 2007.

Alex

[Edited 2008-12-29 21:34:57]


Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSirOmega From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4283 times:

I would assume that DL and NW are counted separate as far as pax goes until they're under a single operating certificate.

Good for WN. I'll be one of the last pax for the year, as I fly out NYE on WN!


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4229 times:

They've held this title for a while haven't they?


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4188 times:

Its because someone that is on a flight RSW-MCO-BNA-DEN counts as 4 passengers, WN has many of these flights. Where on DL/CO/UA etc...a pax would go RSW-ATL/IAH/ORD-DEN therefore WN is able to claim the top spot!

User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5686 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4171 times:



Quoting OOer (Reply 3):
Its because someone that is on a flight RSW-MCO-BNA-DEN counts as 4 passengers, WN has many of these flights. Where on DL/CO/UA etc...a pax would go RSW-ATL/IAH/ORD-DEN therefore WN is able to claim the top spot!

No, don't believe so..That through passenger gets ONE boarding card for the RSW-MCO-BNA-DEN. He is counted as ONE for RSW-DEN.

When a change of aircraft or rather a change of boarding pass is issued then it counts as a seperate passenger.

That was how an Ops agent explained it to me when I worked at WN.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineHAMAD From United Arab Emirates, joined Apr 2000, 1158 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4145 times:

with all the new fews, the legacies are imposing, its not surprising at all that WN earned this


PHX - i miss spotting
User currently offlineDurangoMac From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 660 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4050 times:



Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 4):
No, don't believe so..That through passenger gets ONE boarding card for the RSW-MCO-BNA-DEN. He is counted as ONE for RSW-DEN.

When a change of aircraft or rather a change of boarding pass is issued then it counts as a seperate passenger.

That was how an Ops agent explained it to me when I worked at WN.

Alex

That is exactly right. The report the DOT uses is the either the O&D report or the T-100, I suspect the T-100 which is a person is on the same flight number for multiple consecutive legs then that person is only counted once.

I might point out that this is not really true 2008 numbers, more like fiscal 2008 which I think is Jul 2007 - Jun 2008. The DOT does this so they know who is required to report for on-time and some of the other reports.


User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3878 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 4):
When a change of aircraft or rather a change of boarding pass is issued then it counts as a seperate passenger.

That was how an Ops agent explained it to me when I worked at WN.

That is correct, atleast according to what I was told recently.



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4675 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3818 times:



Quoting DurangoMac (Reply 6):
I might point out that this is not really true 2008 numbers, more like fiscal 2008 which I think is Jul 2007 - Jun 2008.

Yeah, 2008 isn't over yet!



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2194 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3520 times:



Quoting OOer (Reply 3):
Its because someone that is on a flight RSW-MCO-BNA-DEN counts as 4 passengers, WN has many of these flights. Where on DL/CO/UA etc...a pax would go RSW-ATL/IAH/ORD-DEN therefore WN is able to claim the top spot!

I don't believe this is correct. DOT states the rules and accounting process, and would want the accounting the same across the carriers.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 911 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3496 times:



Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 2):
They've held this title for a while haven't they?

They have been the largest carrier of domestic passengers in the U.S. for several years. If they are now bigger than the combine domestic and international carriage of their competitors, that would be a new (and significant) milestone.

Although without a link to the story, I don't think we can tell if this is the case from the brief snip provided by Atrude. Can we get the full article, please?  Smile


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6339 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3422 times:



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 10):
They have been the largest carrier of domestic passengers in the U.S. for several years. If they are now bigger than the combine domestic and international carriage of their competitors, that would be a new (and significant) milestone

Southwest has been the largest domestic and intl passengers (total) carried for all of 2008. This will change when the figures of DL and NW are added together, then they will be #2. Source Air Transport World.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24061 posts, RR: 23
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3399 times:



Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 9):
Quoting OOer (Reply 3):
Its because someone that is on a flight RSW-MCO-BNA-DEN counts as 4 passengers, WN has many of these flights. Where on DL/CO/UA etc...a pax would go RSW-ATL/IAH/ORD-DEN therefore WN is able to claim the top spot!

I don't believe this is correct. DOT states the rules and accounting process, and would want the accounting the same across the carriers.

I also don't think that's correct. Where there's a connection involving different flight numbers, it counts as two passengers, but as far as I know that has never applied to a through flight with a single flight number making intermediate stops. That's the same for ICAO and IATA traffic statistics also.


User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5686 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3301 times:



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 10):
If they are now bigger than the combine domestic and international carriage of their competitors, that would be a new (and significant) milestone.

Southwest already holds the WORLD's largest airline for Passengers carried for 2007.

SWA-101 million paxs
AA--98 million paxs

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 10):
Although without a link to the story, I don't think we can tell if this is the case from the brief snip provided by Atrude.

Ya I couldn't find a source at DOT website or any article, this was posted internally but I figured it would get out at some point. WN certainly doesn't hold news like this very long.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offline2175301 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3158 times:



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 11):
Southwest has been the largest domestic and intl passengers (total) carried for all of 2008. This will change when the figures of DL and NW are added together, then they will be #2. Source Air Transport World.

But, for how long. My guess is that in 5-7 years that SW will overtake the "new" Delta.


User currently offlineLindy Field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3103 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3147 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Congrats to Southwest. What are the combined DL & NW domestic numbers likely to be? Percentage-wise, how much bigger will they be than WN?


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Edward Kehler



User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2961 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
I also don't think that's correct. Where there's a connection involving different flight numbers, it counts as two passengers, but as far as I know that has never applied to a through flight with a single flight number making intermediate stops. That's the same for ICAO and IATA traffic statistics also.

There are a reasonably large number of WN routings that require double-connections still - especially in the east. Even when not required, for the lowest price, a greater amount of folks fly WN and make double connections (and sometimes still a thru-stop in between) than do on any legacy carrier. Lot's of folks don't mind this at all and some strive to book that way in fact, as WN's FFQ is based on accruing segments, not miles. Not that it would affect their numbers tremendously, I just thought I'd clarify that.



Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineB727LVR From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 630 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2900 times:



Quoting 2175301 (Reply 14):
But, for how long. My guess is that in 5-7 years that SW will overtake the "new" Delta.

Can you imagine.... Get the right partnership or right aircraft to compliment their existing fleet, things could get really big here.

Quoting Lindy Field (Reply 15):
Congrats to Southwest. What are the combined DL & NW domestic numbers likely to be? Percentage-wise, how much bigger will they be than WN?

If I had to make a rough guess, i would say anywhere from %125 to %150 more pax, if not more. Which would be larger a CO/UAL merger or this merger between NW & DL?



I'm like a kid in a candy store when it comes to planes!
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5686 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2891 times:



Quoting Breaker1011 (Reply 16):
There are a reasonably large number of WN routings that require double-connections still - especially in the east. Even when not required, for the lowest price, a greater amount of folks fly WN and make double connections (and sometimes still a thru-stop in between) than do on any legacy carrier. Lot's of folks don't mind this at all and some strive to book that way in fact, as WN's FFQ is based on accruing segments, not miles. Not that it would affect their numbers tremendously, I just thought I'd clarify that.

Don't believe this is true either. WN has never offered a scheduled double connection in any itinerary, even with ATA included.

All you see is.
1 (1 stop no change)
2 (2 stop no change)
3 (3 stop no change)
1/MDW (1 stop, and a change)
2/MDW (2 stops but one requires a change)

That it.

As for point accrual, also false. You get one point period from BWI-LAS, doesn't matter how many times you stop or change planes along the way. Just one point. 2 pts r/t.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2837 times:



Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 18):
Don't believe this is true either. WN has never offered a scheduled double connection in any itinerary, even with ATA included.

You're incorrect. I've made double connections on WN at least 3 times in the last 4 years or so. PHX-LAS-MDW-CLE was one I remember, and PHX-BNA-MCO-MIA was another. You don't HAVE to do it that way, but sometimes it's the best option versus longer layovers, seat availability, or time of departure/arrival desired.

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 18):
As for point accrual, also false. You get one point period from BWI-LAS, doesn't matter how many times you stop or change planes along the way. Just one point. 2 pts r/t.

My bad there, I always get more than 1 point per one-way because I fly business select.



Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5686 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2838 times:



Quoting Breaker1011 (Reply 19):
You're incorrect. I've made double connections on WN at least 3 times in the last 4 years or so. PHX-LAS-MDW-CLE was one I remember, and PHX-BNA-MCO-MIA was another. You don't HAVE to do it that way, but sometimes it's the best option versus longer layovers, seat availability, or time of departure/arrival desired.

Right, you CHOSE or set the itinerary up right? WN did not offer this to you in one itinerary?

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2793 times:

Most of my WN trips are booked through a corporate travel center that always hunts the lowest fares unless I ask otherwise. It wouldn't get booked if it didn't show up that way in a CRS.

Note that most every carrier I can think of presents double connection service in their bookable itineraries, even when nonstop service is offered. Sometimes, it's all you can get to get a lower fare or another desired characteristic. AA, DL (especially Delta) will offer PHX-LGA as nonstop, one-change, two-changes. US and UA as well, it's quite common to see this and nothing unusual. Try Delta's website in particular.



Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5686 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2760 times:



Quoting Breaker1011 (Reply 21):
Most of my WN trips are booked through a corporate travel center that always hunts the lowest fares unless I ask otherwise. It wouldn't get booked if it didn't show up that way in a CRS.

Note that most every carrier I can think of presents double connection service in their bookable itineraries, even when nonstop service is offered. Sometimes, it's all you can get to get a lower fare or another desired characteristic. AA, DL (especially Delta) will offer PHX-LGA as nonstop, one-change, two-changes. US and UA as well, it's quite common to see this and nothing unusual. Try Delta's website in particular.

I see, that is different. It is practically a WN policy to AVOID and never publish on southwest.com a double connection because it raises the risk of losing bags on WN.

I do know that other airlines offer double connections on their website I have done it many times on AA.com to get more mileage and segments myself.

I checked WN's site for tomorrow BWI-LAX where I'd find the max of stops and connections and all I see is...
1485/3801 8:25am 1:55pm PHX/2 8:30
1099/3597 3:00pm 8:35pm LAS/2 8:35

Which shows two stops, but one change of aircrafts, as well as the other through flights WN offers and one stop/connections too.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2705 times:



Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 22):
Which shows two stops, but one change of aircrafts, as well as the other through flights WN offers and one stop/connections too.

Great point about the potential bag loss - I'll remember that next time! WN has never lost my bag even once. In fact, WN has been picture perfect in my eyes every time I've flown them. Truly!

I found the same as you on every WN routing I tried on their site. I guess in the end, CRS's can show different routings than WN's site, and travel agents can do crazy things to keep to their corporate account's guidelines.



Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5686 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2661 times:



Quoting Breaker1011 (Reply 23):
Great point about the potential bag loss - I'll remember that next time! WN has never lost my bag even once. In fact, WN has been picture perfect in my eyes every time I've flown them. Truly!

I found the same as you on every WN routing I tried on their site. I guess in the end, CRS's can show different routings than WN's site, and travel agents can do crazy things to keep to their corporate account's guidelines.

Buddy, after having worked in the bag office at STL for WN and seeing the bags we lost I find it hard to believe, but am relieved you did not have to experience a bag loss on us!  Silly

The bag office were some of my most trying times in trying to keep Customers happy and updated in a situation where they probably had every right to be angry at Southwest.

CRS programs are indeed set up differently then southwest.com. When I was a CSA I could force a double connection when booking folks but I had to over ride the system with a Sup permission, otherwise all I could see myself were at max 2 stops and 1 connection or 3 stops, no change.

Thanks for flying Southwest and hope they continue to treat you right!  Smile

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
25 Grain : i see double connections ever now and again when working the ramp at mdw. usually they are coming from small texas towns (crp,ama,maf,lbb) going from
26 Bobnwa : Well from Jan - Jul 2008 the pax boarded fiures were DL-42,231,000 NW-30,311,000 ------72,542,000 WN-61,695,000 The new DL is about 17% larger in pas
27 AirNZ : But surely they can't be added together until they operate under under one Operating Certificate as one airline.
28 Bobnwa : Who would stop them from reporting passengers boarded as one carrier? All it takes, is to add the two numbers together. There is no official largest
29 WorldTraveler : for years, DL alone carried more passengers than any other airline in the world. it isn't a given that WN will continue to pursue their existing strat
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
DOT's #1 On-Time Airline For 2003 Is... posted Fri Feb 6 2004 18:55:21 by OH-LGA
Boeing Weekly Order Update For 9/2/2008 posted Thu Sep 4 2008 10:10:02 by NYC777
Airport (Concourse) Lockers: Any Active For 2008? posted Wed Sep 3 2008 07:16:31 by PHLBOS
UAL Official Airline For The Democratic Convention posted Sun Aug 24 2008 12:33:30 by LAXintl
Airline For The U.S. Olympic Swim Team posted Tue Aug 12 2008 18:52:24 by Sqffp
Boeing Weekly Order Update For 8/5/2008 posted Thu Aug 7 2008 08:39:34 by NYC777
UK:Celebrities Operate Airline For Reality TV Show posted Mon Jul 14 2008 14:23:34 by Tcxdegsy
Worlds Busiest Airport For 1 Day posted Sat Jul 5 2008 03:01:54 by NEMA
CO, WN Report LF Declines For June posted Wed Jul 2 2008 06:49:16 by WorldTraveler
Italy's "Volare " Airline For Sale.. posted Fri Jun 13 2008 08:31:49 by Beaucaire
Airport (Concourse) Lockers: Any Active For 2008? posted Wed Sep 3 2008 07:16:31 by PHLBOS
UAL Official Airline For The Democratic Convention posted Sun Aug 24 2008 12:33:30 by LAXintl
Airline For The U.S. Olympic Swim Team posted Tue Aug 12 2008 18:52:24 by Sqffp
Boeing Weekly Order Update For 8/5/2008 posted Thu Aug 7 2008 08:39:34 by NYC777
WN "Airline" Crew Still Onboard? posted Fri Jul 18 2008 17:22:16 by N801NW
UK:Celebrities Operate Airline For Reality TV Show posted Mon Jul 14 2008 14:23:34 by Tcxdegsy
Italy's "Volare " Airline For Sale.. posted Fri Jun 13 2008 08:31:49 by Beaucaire
Boeing Weekly Order Update For 6/3/2008 posted Thu Jun 5 2008 07:28:29 by NYC777
Private Airline For Syria posted Tue May 27 2008 11:56:38 by ENU