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QF A332 Similar Event To A Previous Event Again  
User currently offlineJetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2254 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6385 times:

2009/01
Qantas Airbus A330 incident, 480km North West of Perth on 27 December 2008
02 January 2009

The Australian Transport Safety Bureau was advised on 27 December 2008 of an occurrence that day involving a Qantas Airbus A330-300 aircraft while in cruise at FL360 (36,000 ft) enroute from Perth to Singapore.

At about 0829 UTC (1729 Local Time), the autopilot disconnected and the crew received an ECAM message (NAV IR 1 Fault) indicating a problem with ADIRU Number 1. The crew actioned the Airbus Operations Engineering Bulletin (OEB) procedure by selecting the IR 1 push-button to OFF and the ADR 1 push-button to OFF. Both OFF lights illuminated. The crew elected to return to Perth and an uneventful overweight landing was conducted. At the time that the autopilot disconnected, the aircraft was approximately 260 nautical miles (NM) North-West of Perth airport and approximately 350 NM South of Learmonth airport.

It is very early in the investigation and too soon to draw any conclusions as to specific causal factors involved in this incident. As it appears to be a similar event to a previous event involving an A330 aircraft (AO-2008-070 on 7 Oct 2008) it will be included as part of the earlier investigation. The ATSB investigation will explore all aspects of the operation of the aircraft, including examination of recorded data, and any commonalities with past occurrences.

While the investigation is likely to take a number of months, the ATSB has been working with a number of national and international parties on this investigation and plans to release an Interim Factual report by about mid-February 2009.

Should any critical safety issues emerge that require urgent attention, the ATSB will immediately bring such issues to the attention of the relevant authorities who are best placed to take prompt action to address those issues.

ADIRU = Air Data Inertial Reference Unit
ECAM = Electronic Centralized Aircraft Monitor
IR = Inertial Reference
ADR = Air Data Reference
NAV = Navigation


Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offline707lvr From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 585 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6352 times:

I was intrigued by the title.

Reading on,

".. received an ECAM message (NAV IR 1 Fault) indicating a problem with ADIRU Number 1. The crew actioned the Airbus Operations Engineering Bulletin (OEB) procedure by selecting the IR 1 push-button to OFF and the ADR 1 push-button to OFF."

pretty much represents the excitement of flight in the modern era. Not much seat-of-pants these days I guess.


User currently offlineQF744FAN From Australia, joined Jan 2007, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5923 times:

Ok..... I'm going to repeat something that I posted in one of the discussions when the first incident happened last year, at the the time it lead to me being pretty much ripped apart by other a.netters, and yes I'm laughing at it.

BUT

With a very similar incident taking place, is this a sign of something wrong with A330?

Surely with such a new fleet of these aircraft there's nothing QF could have failed to do yet that could lead to two seperate occurences.

Thoughts?


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21583 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5921 times:



Quoting QF744FAN (Reply 2):
With a very similar incident taking place, is this a sign of something wrong with A330?

Possibly something uncommon but repeatable. Considering the number of A330 flights each day that don't have those problems, it seems rare, but also needs to be addressed lest something really bad happens in the future.

Maybe an errant line of code somewhere in the vast code of today's pushbutton aircraft…



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1920 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5839 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
Maybe an errant line of code somewhere in the vast code of today's pushbutton aircraft…

I suppose Airbus has to look at what is new in QF A330s computers, either introduced by Airbus or required by QF (if anything).


User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8589 posts, RR: 54
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5826 times:
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Quoting QF744FAN (Reply 2):
With a very similar incident taking place, is this a sign of something wrong with A330?

- Given how long ago the original A330's entered service and the numbers flying today, it is quite unlikely.

What is interesting is QF have had 2 issues in such a short space of time.



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineSpeedBirdA380 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 539 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5720 times:

Quoting QF744FAN (Reply 2):
With a very similar incident taking place, is this a sign of something wrong with A330?

Yet again though this has happened near Perth as did the earlier A330 incident.

And I think I am correct in thinking that a 777 also suffered an in flight upset due to uncommanded flight control inputs a few years ago which again happened near Perth.


Are we not seeing something of a pattern recurring in this particular region?

Not a judgement- Just an Observation.

[Edited 2009-01-02 06:40:02]

User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1920 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5704 times:

Quoting SpeedBirdA380 (Reply 6):
Are we not seeing something of a pattern recurring in this particular region?

You mean the famous "Perth triangle"?
Seriously, earlier reports on the first incident mentioned a powerful military transmitting station of sort.
I mean this:
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24505353-661,00.html
"Powerful signals from a secretive naval base are being probed as a possible cause of a Qantas jet plunge last week."

[Edited 2009-01-02 06:41:50]

User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 6535 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5638 times:



Quoting SpeedBirdA380 (Reply 6):
Are we not seeing something of a pattern recurring in this particular region?

Not a judgement- Just an Observation.

You aren't seriously suggesting a Bermuda Triangle situation are you. The Bermuda Triangle has proved to be pure fiction, so please no more of that. I doubt it has anything to do with area 51 either.


User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4069 posts, RR: 33
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5558 times:



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 8):
You aren't seriously suggesting a Bermuda Triangle situation are you.

No, it is not a triangle, just the third reported IRU failure in the same place.
And on the ground is The radio station that transmits to submarines, not only Australian, but USN as well, using huge amounts of power to send signals round the world.

Quoting SpeedBirdA380 (Reply 6):
nd I think I am correct in thinking that a 777 also suffered an in flight upset due to uncommanded flight control inputs a few years ago which again happened near Perth.

Yes it was a Malaysia B777 which also had an IRU failure.


User currently offlineSpeedBirdA380 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 539 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5388 times:



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 8):
You aren't seriously suggesting a Bermuda Triangle situation are you. The Bermuda Triangle has proved to be pure fiction, so please no more of that. I doubt it has anything to do with area 51 either.

I was merely pointing out that the three simular incidents all occured in the same region. I was not suggesting anything like "The Bermuda Triangle".



And as "Briez" and "TristarSteve" have pointed out the idea of a Military base and the radio signals it transmits possibly having something to do with these incidents is not impossible.

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 9):
Yes it was a Malaysia B777 which also had an IRU failure.

Thanks.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5147 times:

Also worth noting that this was not an A332.

NS


User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5220 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3169 times:

The effective difference between the two incidents appears to be that the first put the aircraft into a dive, presumably with the auto-pilot engaged and the second disengaged the auto-pilot before any harm could be done.
No doubt the investigation will determine any connection between the two incidents. Informed sources say the first is suspected to have been caused by software issues.


User currently offlineQF744ER From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2436 times:

CX, TG, MH, GA (seasonal) and D7 all operate A330's in and out of Perth...CX have been flying their A333's here since the mid 90's, long long before QF even ordered theirs and I too find it odd that these 'occurances' seem to be isolated to QF A333's.

User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4780 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2068 times:

Plenty of seat of the pants skills still required, and quite commonly these days because our 'magic' computerised systems are malfunctioning on a regular basis..

And there are those that still support completely autonomous aircraft !



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineNZ1 From Australia, joined May 2004, 2277 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1878 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

I'm also wondering if the incidents on the 2 QF A330's could be linked in ANY way to the NZ A320 crash off Perpignan back in November. The 2 QF aircraft were at altitude, and had time to recover, whereas the A320 did not.

Just my thoughts racing away again.

NZ1


User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1920 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1641 times:



Quoting NZ1 (Reply 15):
I'm also wondering if the incidents on the 2 QF A330's could be linked in ANY way to the NZ A320 crash off Perpignan back in November.

Are you suggesting that you down-under people have some mystical powers disturbing Airbus' computers? Aboriginal like? Crocodile Dundee, here we go. That's even more weird than the Perth Triangle! Smile


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