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NW/DL At DCA  
User currently offlineOsubuckeyes From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 865 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7025 times:

I was wondering how the DL/NW merger would effect them both in DCA. Will NW move over to the DL gates? I didn't think they would have the space for that but what do I know. Or will DL move to A and switch with FL and Midwest and Spirit so they get all of A. Also what will be the level of ops out of DCA which is one of DL's major outstations. Will flights be cut added or shuffled? Thanks for any and all input

58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6731 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6966 times:

The only way that I can see NW fitting in B with DL is to move CO/AC out (AS can stay). Otherwise, I don't see how NW fits, unless some flights are cut. I don't see DL moving over to A as there aren't enough gates, not to mention that A's facilities aren't quite up to par.

I don't expect the level of ops to change much. Some tweaks no doubt, but nothing major.


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8913 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6898 times:

The one thing I can see is moving the Delta Shuttle over to Terminal A and having NW use the former DL Shuttle gates in Terminal B. That would give DL the entire Terminal B pier, and I think NW has only three gates over in Terminal A, so that would allow the Shuttle to be fine (they need 2 gates). The combined DL/NW has about 55 daily flights at DCA (discounting the Shuttle) and 7 gates on the B pier, with 14 RONs or so. With some good scheduling, you should be able to fit these flights into these 7 gates.

User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5600 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6879 times:



Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 2):
The one thing I can see is moving the Delta Shuttle over to Terminal A

A disadvantage of A is the distance to the Metro, and I'd guess a good percentage of the shuttle pax are Metro riders.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineOsubuckeyes From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 865 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6676 times:

What are the chances of CO or AS or both moving to A so that NW can join DL in B?

User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1037 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6563 times:

I've been thinking about this a bit myself, as I frequently fly Northwest from DCA.

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 2):
I think NW has only three gates over in Terminal A

Actually they use four: Gates 2, 3, 4, and 5. The CRJs usually seem to use 2 and 3, the Airbii use all four, and 757s usually seem to use 5 (not really sure why this is the case... perhaps an employee or someone with knowledge of DCA could explain).

Other considerations include the fact that both NW and DL have lounges at DCA: DL's is supposed to be quite nice (I've never used it), whereas NW's is very small and is of their old, early-90s design (think LAX and the Gold Terminal WorldClub at MSP). The NW club at DCA is not only small, I don't think it could be expanded. One would think that the merged airline would want to use the nicer DL lounge, but I can't imagine trying to route all of NW's mainline flights through the existing DL gates together with DL and the Shuttle. Nor can I think of a scenario in which CO or AS would want to move to the A Terminal... that place needs serious renovations and I doubt if they will happen any time soon.

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 2):
The combined DL/NW has about 55 daily flights at DCA (discounting the Shuttle) and 7 gates on the B pier, with 14 RONs or so. With some good scheduling, you should be able to fit these flights into these 7 gates.

AA RONs a lot of aircraft at DCA as well; I think the south ramp and the hangars, etc., are pretty much full every night. Maybe NW will move to B temporarily (i.e., for several years while the MWAA gets its act together and refurbishes A Terminal) until the entire merged airline can move into renovated facilities. That said, in the meantime A and B seem to be running at full capacity already.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5600 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6506 times:

CO's gates aren't actually *that* close to DL's, although they are much closer than the A Terminal. CO's gates 10, 11, 12,and 14 are in the northernmost portion of the old terminal, to the right (from the security check point) of the new finger pier that DL uses. CO also has a big President's Club at gate 11. It would be expensive to provide equivalent facilities and convince CO to move.

If the price were right, CO (22 flights) could probably accommodate AC (9 flights) and AS (3 flights) at their gates without a lot of trouble. And if DL could double park some RJ's, which, IIRC, don't use the jetbridges anyway, they just might fit into gates 15-22.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6613 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6472 times:

I've always wondered why NW was the only legacy left out of the new terminal? Why was this?  Confused


Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently onlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6402 times:



Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 7):
I've always wondered why NW was the only legacy left out of the new terminal? Why was this? Confused

Just a guess, but because they have been there, literally, forever. I am sure the leases on the "A" gates are a little better (read: cheaper) than the newer piers too. You will notice at many NWA outstations, their gate(s) tend to be the furthest and/or oldest...I doubt that its a coincidence.

Just a little off topic but always been curious, the CO gates in the far north A terminal are the old DCA Eastern gates...correct? I have always wanted to pop in their (when i had a DCA SIDA badge) and see what they look like...i remember as a kid, when EAL was there, it was a big, dark holding room with multiple gates and a zoo-like atmosphere lol.


User currently offlineNwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3408 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6348 times:



Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 8):
You will notice at many NWA outstations, their gate(s) tend to be the furthest and/or oldest...I doubt that its a coincidence.

I can't speak for every station, but at PDX, when we were on the "new" C concourse, we were all the way at the end specifically because the further from the terminal you were the cheaper it was...



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineGsosbee From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6306 times:

Everyone don't forget there is really not Delta and NW gates anymore - they are all Delta gates. This is part of the cost savings process, and I would expect that Delta is looking at only total space needs on these consolidations.

User currently offlineKGAIflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4326 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6286 times:
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Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 8):
Just a little off topic but always been curious, the CO gates in the far north A terminal are the old DCA Eastern gates...correct?

Incorrect.

Continental's gates are an extension of the B concourse and are completely separate from A concourse gates. Possibly you are thinking of old gates formerly projecting from the historic, old terminal building.


User currently onlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6237 times:

OK...thanks KGA, that answers my question.

User currently onlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4136 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6237 times:

Is the combined carrier going to have to give up any slots? Is it intended to keep all hubs within the service perimeter and those outside (SLC) continuing service?


DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5600 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6153 times:



Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 8):
Just a little off topic but always been curious, the CO gates in the far north A terminal are the old DCA Eastern gates...correct?

CO's gates are part of the original terminal and not part of B, although they are accessed through B security. I don't think the gates precisely match the old terminal's gates, but the area of the lower numbered gates was Eastern, 14 may have been United. What you really want to see is the President's Club - 1940's Streamline Modern style.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently onlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6070 times:

Oh really? Thanks Massey......I was not clear in my original question guys, sorry about that...I know that there was no A,B,C etc in the original terminal. It just seems that the proximity of the CO gates area in the same general area as the old EAL area. Lord knows, the terminal is a 150% improvement over the mess it replaced, but I love the aesthetics of the "historical" terminal and, of course, the banjo!

User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7564 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6034 times:



Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 2):
and I think NW has only three gates over in Terminal A

4

Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 5):
whereas NW's is very small and is of their old, early-90s design

Its from the DCA hub they had then.

Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 5):
Gold Terminal WorldClub at MSP).

I don't know when the last time you were there was, but while it might be smaller than the huge club at G/F the C club is much much nicer and reminds me of something from Minnesota.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineJustplanenutz From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 553 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6014 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 16):
Its from the DCA hub they had then.

NW leased a decent number of slots out (to US I believe) when they drew down DCA afterwards. Would DL now have interest in reclaiming those?


User currently offlineNwafan20 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5355 times:



Quoting Gsosbee (Reply 10):
Everyone don't forget there is really not Delta and NW gates anymore - they are all Delta gates. This is part of the cost savings process, and I would expect that Delta is looking at only total space needs on these consolidations.

Not true, as of right now NW and DL ops are separate. A DL gate is a DL gate, a NW gate is a NW gate. This is likely to change soon, but for right now, they are separate.

At DTW for example, DL can still ONLY park at its gates at the end of B, they are also ONLY using DL ground handling, not NW, this will consolidate soon, but for right now it is different.



Long live the Red Tail! | WMU Flight Science major
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4952 times:



Quoting Justplanenutz (Reply 17):
NW leased a decent number of slots out (to US I believe) when they drew down DCA afterwards. Would DL now have interest in reclaiming those?

The DOT has made it pretty clear that if DL wants ant more slots at National they will have to starts using the ones they already have first.

So to answer your question if DL wants/needs more DCA flights they will have to start going for thr sub-leased slots



yep.
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3217 posts, RR: 16
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4897 times:



Quoting Gsosbee (Reply 10):
Everyone don't forget there is really not Delta and NW gates anymore - they are all Delta gates.

Do you seriously just troll the forums trying to find any thread NW/DL where you can remind us for the 1,047th time that "It is DL, not NW"??

We get it. We heard you on the 1,046th time, we hear you on the 1,047th time, and I'm sure everyone looks forward to the inevitable 1,048th time.  Yeah sure


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4824 times:

Keep in mind CO and UA are consolidating their ticketing and ground ooer

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 4):
What are the chances of CO or AS or both moving to A so that NW can join DL in B?



Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 6):
CO's gates aren't actually *that* close to DL's, although they are much closer than the A Terminal. CO's gates 10, 11, 12,and 14 are in the northernmost portion of the old terminal, to the right (from the security check point) of the new finger pier that DL uses. CO also has a big President's Club at gate 11. It would be expensive to provide equivalent facilities and convince CO to move.

CO likes where they are, they have a top notch Presidents Club there so they are not moving. One thing, CO and UA are consolidating their ground operations and ticketing/check-in counters as part of their new alliance. Could UA fit with CO at their gates?..



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6132 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4805 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 21):
Could UA fit with CO at their gates?..

I don't know can COs gates accommodate an extra 16 daily flights? (15 to ORD & 1 to DEN)



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineGsosbee From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4696 times:



Quoting Nwafan20 (Reply 18):



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 20):

I have no dog in the fight. (In fact since Delta abandoned Texas I could really care less about them.) However, to read these threads where some people are attempting to infer that NWA is alive and well shows a naivety that affects what the casual reader sees. When people who hold themselves out as knowledgeable people commit the simplest of mistakes, their creditability takes a hit. Reality hurts at times, but continuing an illusion does no one any good.

Northwest airlines is owned lock stock and barrel by Delta Air Lines. Nothing happens at the Northwest Delta subsidiary without Delta's approval (hint - who is Northwest's CEO?) Delta is responsible for all Northwest debt and expenses and, more importantly, all Northwest actions.


User currently offlineGXMan From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4665 times:

DCA is my home airport. I don't see Continental moving anywhere except maybe to the UA/AA C pier, though that would displace AA. I can't imagine CO or AA wanting to go to terminal A. Not only is A really outdated, as stated above it is much further from the Metro and the parking garages. One of the best qualities of DCA is that you can walk from the garage/subway to the B and C security lines in 10 minutes.

I usually fly the USAir shuttle, but I don't think the Delta Shuttle passengers would appreciate departing/arriving at A. Both shuttle ops have check-in counters at the B/C garage/subway bridges and another adjacent to their security lines.



Steve
25 Transpac787 : While this may be true, you happen to be wrong quite often. Just read reply 18. DL ground handling cannot yet work a NW plane, and NW ground handling
26 DeltAirlines : I encourage you to fly through MSP sometime at night then. DL often parks its mainline jets at its own gates (E11, E13, E15), but will board (in the
27 KGAIflyer : I think what the folks who actually use Reagan-National realize is that unlike ATL or DTW or MSP or SLC, DCA is relatively small property built in a
28 Gsosbee : Parking at a gate and working the flight are two different issues. When all of the Delta gates are together, it will be easy to allocate who works th
29 KingAir200 : Be that as it may, NWA is not working these flights. "Things you are qualified to speak on?" Wow. Evidently you, unlike others in this forum, are qua
30 ItalianFlyer : So perhaps on the flip side, the Delta Shuttle operated by Shuttle use B, along with the ATL (and perhaps DTW) hourlies while MEM/CVG/random P2P use
31 KGAIflyer : That's a brilliant idea.
32 Transpac787 : It seems at that time, you will be completely out of things you are qualified to speak on. I do it once or twice per month. Yes. And they are still h
33 KingAir200 : As has AA and US.
34 VC10DC10 : About two months ago. Don't get me wrong -- I like the Gold Concourse WorldClub better than the Green Concourse WorldClub. Despite the improved furni
35 Gigneil : As the crow flies, yes, but there's no direct path... you have to walk up the walkway and go through security again to get from A to B and vice versa
36 VC10DC10 : I'm not quite sure what to make of your statement. Although it's true that some of the non-Northwest gates don't get heavy use on the A concourse (#1
37 MasseyBrown : The A Terminal is NW plus low-cost carriers; I doubt if the lcc's would be eager to pay B or C Terminal rentals; DL would have to underwrite not just
38 Gigneil : I really meant gate utilization is low on the non NW gates, as you deduced as well. I still can't quite figure out what they should do... I see two ch
39 Gigneil : The other problem is while it is being extended then 3 gates at least will be unusable. Like I said above, this is a situation without a clear, logic
40 JustPlaneNutz : Google DCA--you'll see the pier can't be extended. The shadows off the Widget Tails are already in the taxiway.
41 MasseyBrown : Ahhh.....yes, you're right - as is Gigneil. No easy way to make everybody happy. Fewer flights and bigger planes may become the LaHood answer - to a
42 KGAIflyer : The only gates I know of that are *completely unused* are the two gates (1-A and 9-A) formerly used by TWA for turboprop flights, and they don't have
43 CatIII : Just out of curiousity, but why doesn't Air Canada use the US or UA gates at DCA? It would seem to me that it would make sense to colocate with Star A
44 DCA-ROCguy : So, no matter who owns whose soul or body, unless there is extensive reconstruction at Washington-Reagan, Delta and Northwest *might* have to remain s
45 MasseyBrown : When A was built, TWA and NW were the main users. The "funky stone-wall tunnel" was similar to the tunnels used in TWA's JFK terminal, which were tho
46 Gigneil : Then perhaps ousting Spirit and Midwest might be the way to go... and then have DL/NW increase their util. NS
47 KGAIflyer : Spirit has never had a gate of its own--shared with AS and ATA. Out in the ticketing lobby, its teeny tiny check-in area near the doors (where Travel
48 Post contains links and images Cactus742 : Whether or not NW/DL vacates the A concourse, the consolidated website will likely bring about the end of NW's very, very outdated DCA terminal map: h
49 KGAIflyer : True. The gates are now numbered 1 to 9.
50 NorthstarBoy : Just out of curiosity, as i havent flown NW to DCA in probably 15 years, are the NW gates still fixed position? Also, wasn't the "Northwest Corner" de
51 KGAIflyer : A good question. As a flyer simply walking around looking at sutff, I'd say with the gates numbered 1 to 9, as far as I can see, only 2, 4, and 5 hav
52 VC10DC10 : Um, that's not all... look at the rest of the building
53 KGAIflyer : Hmmm. That does date the map, doesn't it? That appendage-thingy next to the A concourse was removed about 20 years ago. Last time I remember using it
54 Post contains links and images DCA-ROCguy : The "appendage-thingy" was a two-level concourse. The first floor, with gates only on the east side, was home to USAir, which you would have used on y
55 Gigneil : I know DL offers some... I have connected before from somewhere to the Shuttle. With a consolidated route system, some gates, and all those slots, DL
56 Post contains links and images DCA-ROCguy : Here's a shot of two fixed-position gates at the A satellite from the inside, also from November 2007. That's an ATA 753 at Gate 6, shortly before the
57 Mainland : I know for sure that 3 & 5 have your traditional style jetway bridges attached to their fixed position nodes. NW runs the CRJ Airlink flights out of
58 AmtrakGuy : You're correct -- I flew Midway out of Gate 1 few times -- they were flying CRJ to Raeigh NC. This was before AirTrans came to DCA.
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