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Will AA Ever Return To ALB  
User currently offlineAirMatt From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 90 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4668 times:

With gas pricing finally dropping (at least temporarily) is there a chance that AA or Eagle will return to ALB?

Matt

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDolphinflyer From Canada, joined May 2005, 199 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4636 times:

... not unless/until they get a pilot contract revision with a scope clause favorable to Eagle pilots flying 70-100 seat aircraft (such as EMB170s/190s). Barring this, I wouldn't hold my breath, if I were you. It's sad, as ALB was my home airport, growing up (1970-1985) and I flew AA out of ALB a number of times. Unfortunately, AE's CR7s don't have the legs to do flights like ALB-DFW or ALB-MIA. American Eagle needs some EMB170s/190s in their fleet, but I don't see this happening anytime soon. I do not foresee AA bringing mainline service back to ALB. Even if there was an economic recovery, AA has ceded their former marketshare to WN and other carriers. It would be difficult to regain/reistablish that. Pray for Embraer RJs and then ALB-ORD, ALB-DFW and ALB-MIA could become realistic possibilities.

User currently offlineLovetojetblue From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4602 times:

A) what is the range of the CR7?
B) This goes under the same category as PVD
C) Werent the northeast flights from ALB/PVD profitable with the ERJ's?

On a different note, im surprised MQ still has the SF3 on their website under "our planes"



Jetblue: The official airline of Springfield! And Eventually: The official airline of Quahog, RI
User currently offlineBatonOps From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 746 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4576 times:



Quoting Dolphinflyer (Reply 1):
B) This goes under the same category as PVD
C) Werent the northeast flights from ALB/PVD profitable with the ERJ's?

Add MDT to that list. We lost service the same time as ALB and PVD.


User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3740 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4509 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Yes, I remember AA in ALB very well. I used to fly them quite a lot when I was a student at RPI (it's an engineering school) in the early 90's. It was the time the Super 80 was new, at that time AA mainline was still flying the 727 on most of the routes in the system. I do remember ALB-ORD flown with the 727 and the S80, and the F100 later on, ALB-RDU flown with the 727 and the Super 80, as well as ALB-JFK flown by American Eagle which operated the Shorts 360 turboprop at that time. Anyone remembers the Shorts 360?

I don't think it's impossible that AA mainline starts nonstop service DFW-ALB and MIA-ALB with 737-800 equipment, unlikely but not impossible. If these routes turn out to be unprofitable then they will drop it and Eagle will take over. Didn't AA mainline flew SWF-DFW nonstop at one time? I believe they did. ORD-ALB would be flown by Eagle if they ever restart this flight.

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2272 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4470 times:

Its really hard to say. Right now I wouldn't hold my breath but perhaps sometime down the road. You never know how things shake out in this industry. Its too bad ALB doesn't see any AA service at all, considering nearby LGA and JFK are considered focus and hub cities by AA. AA has ruther shrunk in this region in recent years. I could envision if something ever happened to US, AA would want to grab up the CLT hub to get a bigger presence on the east coast. Its a shame RDU was shut down. I realize it was done in favor of MIA, but MIA is too far south to function as a domestic hub. AA really needs a hub along the east coast to connect the dot to smaller/medium cities.

User currently offlineFlyingbronco05 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3840 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4461 times:



Quoting Dolphinflyer (Reply 1):
Unfortunately, AE's CR7s don't have the legs to do flights like ALB-DFW or ALB-MIA.

What are you talking about? Our CRJ's go ORD-ABQ, XNA-LAX so why can't they do ALB-DFW? MIA is not an eagle base, it's an executive base.



Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
User currently offlinePanam330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2669 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4442 times:



Quoting Dolphinflyer (Reply 1):
Unfortunately, AE's CR7s don't have the legs to do flights like ALB-DFW or ALB-MIA.

Not to nitpick, but the CR7s can absolutely do ALB-MIA. They did SYR-DFW daily for a couple of years, and ALB-MIA is 96nm shorter and also doesn't face the winds that westbound SYR-DFW flights did.
Anyway, the question isn't whether or not the CR7 can make it - it's whether or not AA wants to introduce another fleet type to their MIA hub, and my guess would be absolutely not. They'd have done it by now if they thought it was worth it, and they're probably not going to do it to reintroduce a station they just cut. It sucks, but it's the way things work these days.


User currently offlinePanam330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2669 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4425 times:

Quoting Flyingbronco05 (Reply 6):
ORD-ABQ, XNA-LAX so why can't they do ALB-DFW?

Both the routes you mentioned are shorter than ALB-DFW, 271nm and 56nm, respectively. AFAIK, XNA-LAX was the longest CR7 route at AE while it was flown (is it cut yet?), and anything beyond that distance would weight restrict the aircraft.

[Edited 2009-01-03 09:23:53]

[Edited 2009-01-03 09:25:03]

User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3037 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4325 times:

I would love to see AE/AA return to ALB but its not gonna happen unless they get bigger and more longer range AE craft.

Haha..An ALB article that I didn't start.

Maybe AE seasonal service?



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4271 times:

Just playing devils advocate here, so dont jump my back folks: I do think at some point down the road the legacies will have to jump back into medium sized markets like ALB,PVD,MDT,DAY, ROA, etc. It is not a matter of if but when. As fixed seat mile costs come down the legacies will be forced to look at new traffic & revenue streams. The traffic growth between mature domestic markets (eg..ORD-LGA or BOS-MIA) is just not there...and basically market share ebbs and flows between competitors. There is only so much demand between the top 25 Metropolitan Statistical Areas and the point2point model does not work with the bottom 25 to 30 MSA's (ExpressJet anyone?).

WN has done a great job at picking up the scraps and moving into the ALBs, PVDs, SDFs,MICs & BNAs since the demand is still there...its just that legacy cost structures could not do it profitably. After all, the legacies will have to find traffic streams to fill all this new int'l capacity coming on line (in theory).

So to answer your question I think the answer is yes...eventually.


User currently offlineBuddys747 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 523 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4248 times:

As mentioned earlier, they need more CR7's and/or clauses to allow CR9's or E70's. With only a handfull of smaller aircraft like the CR7, it might be some time. The CR7's that were flying the smaller cities (like MDT-DFW) went to cities like PHL where they lost a few mainline flights and went to AE.

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 10):
Just playing devils advocate here, so dont jump my back folks: I do think at some point down the road the legacies will have to jump back into medium sized markets like ALB,PVD,MDT,DAY, ROA, etc. It is not a matter of if but when. As fixed seat mile costs come down the legacies will be forced to look at new traffic & revenue streams. The traffic growth between mature domestic markets (eg..ORD-LGA or BOS-MIA) is just not there...and basically market share ebbs and flows between competitors. There is only so much demand between the top 25 Metropolitan Statistical Areas and the point2point model does not work with the bottom 25 to 30 MSA's (ExpressJet anyone?).

WN has done a great job at picking up the scraps and moving into the ALBs, PVDs, SDFs,MICs & BNAs since the demand is still there...its just that legacy cost structures could not do it profitably. After all, the legacies will have to find traffic streams to fill all this new int'l capacity coming on line (in theory).

So to answer your question I think the answer is yes...eventually.

I'll have to agree with that. Side note, I was at MDT in November and all of AE's signs are still there if that means anything, since MDT officials are working hard for DFW to return. I'm sure the folks at ALB are trying hard also.


User currently offlineBatonOps From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 746 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4218 times:



Quoting Buddys747 (Reply 11):
I'll have to agree with that. Side note, I was at MDT in November and all of AE's signs are still there if that means anything, since MDT officials are working hard for DFW to return.

As far as I know the MDT-DFW was a very good market. You are right about the AE signs. I saw them in early Nov when I flew out. I'm flying out this week and will see if they are still in place.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32611 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4214 times:



Quoting Buddys747 (Reply 11):
I was at MDT in November and all of AE's signs are still there if that means anything,

They're still there since American Eagle is still flying MDT-ORD.



a.
User currently offlineSFOHORIZON From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4186 times:

I flew back into ALB for Christmas, my UA Express flight out of ORD was delayed so I got into ALB at around 2 AM. I saw five WN jets parked there ready to leave first thing in the morning. I was reminded of the inexorable creep of WN and clearly in ALB, AA was the casualty. Not sure how the largest carrier in the world (until recently) was booted out of my hometown market while CA, DL, UA, NWA, and US all managed to stay. ORD, MIA, JFK, LGA, all should be able to accept good feed from ALB...

I never quite understood AA's slash and burn policy over the past three years relatively to Delta's grow international policy. With the combination of DL and NWA and the newfound union between UA and CA, I really think AA's management has just left AA the odd man out.


User currently offlineBatonOps From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 746 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4145 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
They're still there since American Eagle is still flying MDT-ORD.

Since when? AE service was terminated in October to ORD. DFW ended in September.

Take it from a guy that works at MDT five days a week.

[Edited 2009-01-03 16:31:12]

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32611 posts, RR: 72
Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4065 times:



Quoting BatonOps (Reply 15):
Since when? AE service was terminated in October to ORD. DFW ended in September.

Take it from a guy that works at MDT five days a week.

Correct. My mistake, I totally forgot.

I wouldn't hold my breath on any return, though.

I do think they will resume Albany, however.



a.
User currently offlineBillReid From Netherlands, joined Jun 2006, 989 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4030 times:



Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 10):
Just playing devils advocate here, so dont jump my back folks: I do think at some point down the road the legacies will have to jump back into medium sized markets like ALB,PVD,MDT,DAY, ROA, etc. It is not a matter of if but when. As fixed seat mile costs come down the legacies will be forced to look at new traffic & revenue streams. The traffic growth between mature domestic markets (eg..ORD-LGA or BOS-MIA) is just not there...and basically market share ebbs and flows between competitors. There is only so much demand between the top 25 Metropolitan Statistical Areas and the point2point model does not work with the bottom 25 to 30 MSA's (ExpressJet anyone?).

WN has done a great job at picking up the scraps and moving into the ALBs, PVDs, SDFs,MICs & BNAs since the demand is still there...its just that legacy cost structures could not do it profitably. After all, the legacies will have to find traffic streams to fill all this new int'l capacity coming on line (in theory).

So to answer your question I think the answer is yes...eventually.

I love your logic. But it assumes that AE management has a clue, and they do not. Their route analyst left to work for a consultant during very uncertain times even though AA offered him a position. Tells me something is critically wrong. They killed the SRQ one month before the Superbowl and as Florida is entering its peak season.

But what can you expect from a business that has NIL analysis capability!



Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
User currently offlineKstateinALB From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 748 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4007 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
I do think they will resume Albany, however.

Within the year if oil stays to where it is now, I'd say. As mentioned many times before, the flights before were not profitable when oil was so high. Now, eh, it will be a little better, but they don't have the a/c to do it.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 9):
Maybe AE seasonal service?

There's nothing seasonal about ALB-ORD when UA serves it 4x daily, and WN flies 3x and 4x daily to MDW.

Why go once daily in a market where you will have twice the competition?



ALB, DTW, ORD, MDW, MCI, JFK, LGA, LHR, MAD, MSP, IAD, DCA, MCO, ATL, CVG, TUL, MHK, PHL, PIT, DFW, DAL, CLT, IND, AUS,
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3960 times:



Quoting Dolphinflyer (Reply 1):
Unfortunately, AE's CR7s don't have the legs to do flights like ALB-DFW or ALB-MIA.

What makes AE CR7s different? IIRC, UAEx did RDU-DEN with the CR7, which is the same distance as ALB-DFW (well, literally a difference of 1 nm according the great circle mapper).


User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2669 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3952 times:



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 19):
UAEx did RDU-DEN with the CR7, which is the same distance as ALB-DFW (well, literally a difference of 1 nm according the great circle mapper).

Though I doubt it's a major difference, UA's CR7s have only 66 seats. 4 pax + their baggage could be the factor there.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16820 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3940 times:

They should move some AT7s up to JFK to bring back some of the former routes Eagle was flying from there:

JFK-
BDL, PHL, BWI, ALB, BUF, ROC, SYR, MHT, PWM etc..



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3037 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3672 times:



Quoting Buddys747 (Reply 11):
I'll have to agree with that. Side note, I was at MDT in November and all of AE's signs are still there if that means anything, since MDT officials are working hard for DFW to return. I'm sure the folks at ALB are trying hard also.

I am flying MCO-ALB today, see if they are still there. I believe that Cape Air took the Indy Air space, but IDK if they are still there at ALB. I think ALB desperately wants FL to come.

Quoting SFOHORIZON (Reply 14):
I saw five WN jets parked there ready to leave first thing in the morning

They need more than 2 gates. Last week there were 4 planes trying to load up with 2 gates.

Quoting KstateinALB (Reply 18):
WN flies 3x and 4x daily to MDW.

MDW is 2x daily.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 21):
They should move some AT7s up to JFK to bring back some of the former routes Eagle was flying from there:

JFK-
BDL, PHL, BWI, ALB, BUF, ROC, SYR, MHT, PWM etc..

Not gonna happen, enough seats on it already. DL,US,CO fly the NYC route.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineMilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1991 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3571 times:

What is sad here, is that ALB was an AA city, long before RJ's, long before dereugulation, long before jet aircraft. AA was the dominant carrier from ALB for years. AA pulling out of Albany just illustrates the "commodity" state of the airline business, and why marketing has taken a backseat to price. Longterm business and market relationships seem to mean nothing in this industry anymore.

User currently offlinePanam330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2669 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3484 times:



Quoting USAirALB (Reply 22):
DL,US,CO fly the NYC route.

And at BUF/ROC/SYR, B6 probably has more seats than those three combined.


25 KstateinALB : At this time it is, I'm pretty sure it had 3x during the summer months. What's sad is that the FF's who had AA as their primary carrier in ALB were s
26 USAirALB : What I don't understand is why SYR/ROC didn't loose service. AA flew the 738 to HPN, but what about any other upstate city.
27 Lat41 : There were some circumstances around the dismantling of that operation that perhaps someone can recap for us. Years ago, they flew Shorts 360s then S
28 Cws818 : SYR, ROC don't have WN. I am not at all saying that WN was the deciding factor in determining which city to drop, but WN's presence in a market does
29 USAirALB : ROC has both FL and B6 and SYR has B6. Although none of these airlines fly to CHI from those cities.
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