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Cape Air To Fly LNS/HGR-BWI  
User currently offlineBatonOps From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 752 posts, RR: 4
Posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6859 times:

Looks like Cape Air will be coming to LNS, HGR, and BWI.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...cape_air_to_link_lancaster_to.html

Good news for both Lancaster and Hagerstown!!

49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6853 times:

WOW, I didn't see this coming. But i dont see it staying around for too long either. CapeAir has not done well with these weird off the wall little routes outside of their comfort zone that they try. By this I mean that strange Indiana routes and thos upstate NY routes that they cut some of.

User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5601 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6843 times:

The trouble with flying to BWI is the airline with all the non-stops doesn't interline. Unless pax can reclaim their bags at the gate, they will have to pass through security twice. So either they put up with that annoyance or they use other airlines, which mostly fly to their own hubs, which will create lots of 2-connection trips. The ugh-factor in using Cape will be huge.

I think I'd rather drive to PHL or IAD, which is what people have been doing since the previous service terminated about two years ago.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6823 times:



Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 2):
The ugh-factor in using Cape will be huge.

Due in large part to those scary little Cesspools they fly. That doesn't help their credibility in this day and age either.


User currently offlineAirPortugal310 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3718 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6804 times:

Quoting TDubJFK (Reply 3):
Due in large part to those scary little Cesspools they fly. That doesn't help their credibility in this day and age either.

What poor credibility do you speak of? I think Cape Air is a well managed company, that despite being smaller than most regionals, carries nearly 750,000 pax a year in those 'cesspools" and interlines with every major airline out there that allows interlining. And codeshares with JetBlue to boot! I wont even go on about flying Part 121 in Guam for Continental Connection   

To go even further, they issued profit sharing checks to employees this year (as well as a few years back)...

Hardly the crappy airline you make it out to be. Your profile said someone called you snarky...I think misinfomed about aviation is more fitting.

[Edited 2009-01-03 11:43:40]


I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6755 times:



Quoting AirPortugal310 (Reply 4):
What poor credibility do you speak of? I

Flying old piston powered 9-seat planes is not going to impress or win many people over on a new route. Witness their failed attempt at Intra-Indiana and the upstate NY routes they attempted.

I did not say Cape Air was a bad airline. I was merely referring to the Cessnas they fly.


User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3420 posts, RR: 16
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6725 times:

What upstate NY routes have they dropped??

User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6700 times:



Quoting PVD757 (Reply 6):
What upstate NY routes have they dropped??

Ahh .. my mistake. I thought I had read that they discontinued Saranac Lake and Plattsburgh to BOS. I just checked their website and they do still exist.


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5844 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6666 times:



Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 2):
The trouble with flying to BWI is the airline with all the non-stops doesn't interline. Unless pax can reclaim their bags at the gate, they will have to pass through security twice. So either they put up with that annoyance or they use other airlines, which mostly fly to their own hubs, which will create lots of 2-connection trips.

Great Lakes is using the same strategy in California, flying Merced-Visalia-Ontario.

So far the lower ticket prices on WN out of ONT seems to offset the inconvenience of no interline, Great Lakes is seeing good loads.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5601 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6636 times:



Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 8):
Great Lakes is using the same strategy in California, flying Merced-Visalia-Ontario.

Those cities are not an hour's drive from major hubs.

It will be interesting to see how Cape does; the history of commercial flying in HGR isn't encouraging. Still, the subsidy rate was calculated when fuel was near its peak, so maybe Cape sustain the route if fuel stays low.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineKGAIflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4328 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6626 times:
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Quoting BatonOps (Thread starter):
Good news for both Lancaster and Hagerstown!!

I know that Hagertown's previous EAS contractor flew to Pittsburgh. But with the decrease of flights into PIT, that service was doomed. However, connecting through BWI will give the nice folks of Washington County more choices ( AA, AC, BA, CO, DL/NW, FL, JM, U5, UA, US, WN plus Air Mobility flights and Apple Vacations charters) .


User currently offlinePanova98 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6622 times:

In this day and age, any city/town/village getting new air service, 9-passenger prop or not, ought to be shooting off fireworks celebrating the accomplishment!

The local Lancaster banks can use the flights to bring back more TARP money from the Treasuy, and the many, local farmers, including the Amish living literally only a few feet from the Lancaster Airport runways (I know, they deny that they do such things) can get their farm and crop subsidy checks more quickly!

More debt for us taxpayers.., and what else is new? Happy New Year!!


User currently offlineBuddys747 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 535 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6568 times:

How did LNS do with flights to PIT before US downgraded it from a hub ? Not only do you have BWI and PHL, but MDT is also only around 35 minutes away. There has been an increase in Lancaster passengers using MDT.

User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5844 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6545 times:



Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 9):
Those cities are not an hour's drive from major hubs.

1 hour no.

But people in this part of California have commonly driven the 3 hours to LAX, SFO, SJC, SMF, OAK, BUR, etc. to get better fares.

Fresno has one of the highest driveaway rates in the country due to the cost of airfare in this region and mulitple larger airports within a few hours.

Visalia and Merced have the same behavior.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6498 times:



Quoting Panova98 (Reply 11):
the Amish living literally only a few feet from the Lancaster Airport runways (I know, they deny that they do such things) can get their farm and crop subsidy checks more quickly

the best argument for EAS subsidies I've heard so far!!


User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6491 times:

I think the state of Indiana has some kind of revenue guarantee for the Indiana flights..

User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5601 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6488 times:



Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 13):
1 hour no.

But people in this part of California have commonly driven the 3 hours to LAX, SFO, SJC, SMF, OAK, BUR, etc. to get better fares.

For HGR (I'm not familiar with LNS driving) it's an EASY drive of about an hour to Dulles, using Route 15 through Leesburg.

Depending what BWI gate Cape uses (Concourse E?), the passengers will go through security twice. If they use WN, they have to claim and recheck bags. If they use another carrier, they may have to go through another connecting point.

It seems easier by far just to drive to Dulles.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6475 times:



Quoting COSPN (Reply 15):

I think the state of Indiana has some kind of revenue guarantee for the Indiana flights..

HAD. The flights are gone now.


User currently offlineKGAIflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4328 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6449 times:
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Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 16):
For HGR (I'm not familiar with LNS driving) it's an EASY drive of about an hour to Dulles, using Route 15 through Leesburg.

Easy, Massey? Really?

What happened to all the traffic?

Isn't Washington area traffic the worst in the nation?

Besides, Maryland has to sign a guarantee for EAS funds, no? So BWI it is.


User currently offlineNWAdeicer From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 187 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6399 times:

Just wanted to add that my wife, daughter and I had the pleasure of flying CapeAir from STT to SJU a couple weeks ago. This was due in large part because of the *%$* at the American Eagle counter who refused to let us on their flight because "I have a half hour left on my shift and I have a ton of paperwork to do, I cannot help you with your zed fare" This was their last flight of the day. I saw a CapeAir agent walk past and asked her if she could help us get to SJU with my zed fare, she said no problem, that there was only one passenger on the flight and they would hold the plane until we passed thru customs and the TSA. Aah, the TSA, that is for another thread...Anyways, I have never been in that small of an airplane and it was a really nice 35 minute flight.


I miss the Red Tail
User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6371 times:



Quoting KGAIflyer (Reply 18):
Besides, Maryland has to sign a guarantee for EAS funds, no? So BWI it is.

No... the US DOT handles everything and awards contracts independent from the states. Local and state input regarding a contract is supposedly considered though.


User currently online777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6292 times:



Quoting KGAIflyer (Reply 18):
Isn't Washington area traffic the worst in the nation?

Yes, but in theory, if you're driving from HGR to IAD, you'll bypass a good deal of the really bad stuff by cruising down U.S. 15.

I'm not sure if there's really much to be gained by linking HGR, LNS, and BWI, but it's safe to assume that Cape Air has done their homework. Then again, I'd be curious to see what their CASM and RASM look like so long as they're flying 9-seaters. A quick look at their website suggests that tickets probably won't be cheap ($175-$300 r/t) but again, if you only have nine seats to book and you can consistently fill 2/3 of them, it might work. If they can somehow grab a gate down in the old US commuter gates in the D concourse, it may be possible to connect to CO flights (one of their partners) without having to recheck and go through security one more time. Either way, good luck - BWI can use the service, too.


777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5601 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6249 times:



Quoting KGAIflyer (Reply 18):
Easy, Massey? Really?

What happened to all the traffic?

Isn't Washington area traffic the worst in the nation?

As 777fan said, I-70 (better yet - back roads) to US 15 to the Dulles Greenway is a much easier drive that I-70 to the Washington Beltway to the Dulles Access Road, which route the state of MD told the DOT was the customary (and greater than 70 mile) route - thus technically justifying the revival of the discontinued HGR flights.

Washington highway authorities claim that LA traffic is worse; but, having lived in both places, I'm not sure I believe it.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineAirPortugal310 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3718 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6231 times:

I have worked (on and off) at Cape for about 5 years now...and again, while not having heard a single thing about this...interesting to see what comes of it.

Cape Air has a great product and management that truly cares about people. If things fail, its because the thought was there but the passengers maybe werent (ala Indiana). If they succeed, its because the want and will to keep something going were there.

Quoting NWAdeicer (Reply 19):
Anyways, I have never been in that small of an airplane and it was a really nice 35 minute flight.

Its enough time to really appreciate flying as it really is. Remember, on 9K, every seat comes with a window view  Wink



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5951 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6184 times:
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I kind of wish Cape Air would venture out here in the Pacific Northwest.

25 KGAIflyer : That would be a great idea since USAir currently uses only two of the gates down there. As a matter of fact, the last time I was in that area, securi
26 Cubsrule : One of the drawbacks of BWI seems to be the lack of a local market. LNS-PIT probably wasn't a huge local market either, but 2 or 3 local passengers c
27 MtnWest1979 : Well they tried to, but folks at SeaPort complained about how the State of Oregon decided who should get money tho serve Astoria and Newport, they re
28 Wedgetail737 : They should try and get a codeshare agreement with AS/QX to serve some of the smaller communities surrounding SEA to places like Friday Harbor, Sequi
29 P3Orion : Isn't Cape Air wanting/trying to start service between ERI and PIT? I thought I read that in the Erie newspaper a month ago. Also, how are they doing
30 KGAIflyer : I know you are talking about Baltmore residents fyling out to Lancaster Pennsylvania (or to Hagerstown Maryland). But, it is remarkable *who* uses BW
31 Cubsrule : If people will drive down to BWI to fly, they'll certainly go ahead and drive to Baltimore rather than flying when they need to go (only) to Baltimor
32 KGAIflyer : True, but I do believe you missed the point.
33 Mainland : If they got something down there they'd probably get one of the D-40+ gates at the far end of the terminal. I don't know about you, but that whole co
34 777fan : It is depressing, but it's within the secured area so pax wouldn't need to reenter when connecting (on some flights). I walked down there a few month
35 KstateinALB : From my neighbor ( I know, a very "reliable" source for A-Net standards), who uses Cape Air to get to some of the smaller communities here Upstate, s
36 P3Orion : I hope they do well. I was sad to see Commutair leave after witnessing the glory years of their "microhub." I know Cape Air won't have the schedule U
37 Cubsrule : I'm afraid we've both missed the other's point. Mine was simply that the local markets on both of these flights are essentially nonexistent.
38 Panova98 : I would love to see some academic endeavor by one of the local colleges (F&M, Millersville, Elizabethtown, even Penn State), for a real study of the a
39 SaabFA71 : Great to see service once again at LNS! Even though the service is offered only on a 9-seat Cessna, it's better than no service at all. Maybe sometime
40 MtnWest1979 : One thing that I notice about the majority of responses is the use, or lack of, in the service originating in HGR. There doesn't seem to be much discu
41 777fan : There is some potential since the State of MD has eyed a potential slots parlor in Allegany County (about 70 miles down the road from HGR). KCBE woul
42 KcrwFlyer : Has it been confirmed whether they're going to offer connections to other carriers or not?
43 Buddys747 : Higher income populations? Lancaster is very conservative and has a history of lower wages (especially in the construction free enterprise trade). It
44 MasseyBrown : I was sorry to see that go, also. Unfortunately, CommutAir seems to have remarkably high costs; they were nowhere close to competitive in the last fe
45 BOStonsox : This was rumored for a while. I think someone at 9K said they may try to codeshare or interline with WN at BWI, but it may have been someone else, lik
46 Cubsrule : Doesn't BWI have significantly lower fares than MDT, though, in addition to having service to many more destinations? ZK's operation at STL is sort o
47 Access-Air : I recently read an article in AIRWAYS magazine about Cape Air...It was great!!! Unfortunately, our mentality is that if you cant serve it with and RJ
48 Buddys747 : MDT compared to BWI in destinations ? - Yes BWI has more. Lower fares , not necessarily. Point I was trying to make is if your going to make a connec
49 Cubsrule : In terms of this service, I think it's a moot point. Most people will drive to either BWI or MDT.
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