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Additional DL 772LR And 764ER Flights Loaded  
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4792 posts, RR: 25
Posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 11908 times:
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Courtesy of a post over on Flyertalk, it looks like some new 772LR and 764ER flights have been loaded for the spring/summer:

In addition to the previously announced ATL-BOM, ATL-JNB, and ATL-SYD, here are some other updates:

Now loaded 772LR flights:
ATL-DXB daily April to mid-June then 4/week
ATL-KWI ad-hoc days April-July
ATL-PVG 4/week starting in June
ATL-TLV May31 & Jun29
JFK-TLV every other day from May21-Jun02

Now loaded 767-400ER with lie-flat BE flights:
JFK-GRU begins Jul01
JFK-SVO begins Jul01

105 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4792 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 11900 times:
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Stupid Edit function is a PITA...

Anyway, it looks like JFK-TLV will be upgauged to a 777-200ER for the summer as well, as part of the aircraft rotation with the new JFK-NRT flight (so 3 77Es doing daily JFK-NRT and JFK-TLV concurrently).


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5225 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 11868 times:

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
ATL-KWI ad-hoc days April-July

So I guess the rumor that this route was being dropped is not true after all.

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
JFK-GRU begins Jul01

(sarcasm on) But I thought this route was struggling and a poor performer. Why upgrade it? (sarcasm off)

Quoting Panamair (Reply 1):
Anyway, it looks like JFK-TLV will be upgauged to a 777-200ER for the summer as well, as part of the aircraft rotation with the new JFK-NRT flight (so 3 77Es doing daily JFK-NRT and JFK-TLV concurrently).

Not at all unexpected given that DL has decided against flying the 4 additional weekly flights that were previously announced. Good to see DL seemingly doing well on JFK-TLV.

[Edited 2009-01-03 11:36:26]

P.S. since this is somewhat related to this topic but does anyone have any idea when the rumored upgrades of certain JFK and ATL routes to A330's will be loaded. IINM the rumor posted here was that they would be loaded on the 21st of December and they have yet to be.

[Edited 2009-01-03 11:42:53]


Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9081 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 11790 times:



Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
ATL-KWI ad-hoc days April-July

Wait you maen the route which is being dropped?  duck 

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
JFK-GRU begins Jul01

Right this is to "make up" for it lossing the 1x weekly to LA. Now the question in With ATL and JFK- GRU going 764 how will the LAX plane get into the system? Or could we see more 763ER routes out of LAX so they can base some planes out in LA?  Wink

Quoting Panamair (Reply 1):
Anyway, it looks like JFK-TLV will be upgauged to a 777-200ER for the summer as well, as part of the aircraft rotation with the new JFK-NRT flight (so 3 77Es doing daily JFK-NRT and JFK-TLV concurrently).

Which is why it will just be daily and not 11x weekly. IIRC they talked about doing 1x daily 777 4x weekly 763 though.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 2):
P.S. since this is somewhat related to this topic but does anyone have any idea when the rumored upgrades of certain JFK and ATL routes to A330's will be loaded. IINM the rumor posted here was that they would be loaded on the 21st of December and they have yet to be.

Its still not in there and all the routes are still showing what they got last year.



yep.
User currently offlinePanam330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2660 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 11792 times:



Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
ATL-KWI ad-hoc days April-July

I thought this was gone in March?  confused 

Great to see DL placing these birds on existing routes for the time being. When do the non-stop ATL-JNB and LAX-SYD flights start?


User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3147 posts, RR: 35
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 11785 times:



Quoting OA412 (Reply 2):
So I guess the rumor that this route was being dropped is not true after all.

There were concerns about slow early bookings, but it appears that KWI is an exceptionally late booking market, so it got a stay of execution.

Its a good lesson, though, to those jumping to conclusions based on rumor.


User currently offlineFlyguy1 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1736 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 11691 times:

When are the 767-400 JFK-LHR flights, and the third JFK-LHR via AF going to be loaded?


727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
User currently offlineExaauadl From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 11646 times:



Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 5):
There were concerns about slow early bookings, but it appears that KWI is an exceptionally late booking market, so it got a stay of execution.

yields should be good. Dont think it will do as well as UA's IAD-KWI due to govt traffic on UA going to Iraq


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4692 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 11479 times:



Quoting Panam330 (Reply 4):
Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
ATL-KWI ad-hoc days April-July

I thought this was gone in March?

Probably the route will be gone by March, the flights operating as Adhoc flights hints the route with-drawl...

Quoting Panam330 (Reply 4):
LAX-SYD flights start?

I believe the ATL-LAX-SYD route will commence in July...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 11470 times:



Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
Now loaded 767-400ER with lie-flat BE flights:
JFK-GRU begins Jul01

Fantastic news for GRU! This will certainly provide a boost on DL yields in this important market.

Rgs,


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 11452 times:

with all due respect for both sides, the Middle East has been a difficult area in terms of peace for a very long time. that being said, we all should pray for the peace of Jerusalem and for all the inhabits of this world.

DL made the decision after 2001 to pull out of the Middle East including TLV but CO stayed and has prospered; DL stayed put during the Israel conflict a year or so and it doesn't seem to have hurt them. I tend to think that DL will not be pulling down as they have before... The 777 will help DL further compete in the cargo market from TLV, although I tend to think by next summer the 777s will be deployed to new routes and the 330s will be used for JFK-TLV.

Putting 2 764s on SVO (ATL and JFK) and using the best seats available on the 76 fleet indicate DL is pulling out all the stops to maintan its position in Russia against new competitors.


Panamair,
what are the sellable configs of the 764s w/ lie flat BE? There rumors that DL would be moving some or all of the crew rest facilities off the main cabin floor, potentially to an undercabin lobe similar to what is available on the 330. Any confirmation on that?


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9081 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 11236 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11):
Panamair,
what are the sellable configs of the 764s w/ lie flat BE? There rumors that DL would be moving some or all of the crew rest facilities off the main cabin floor, potentially to an undercabin lobe similar to what is available on the 330. Any confirmation on that?

lie-flat 39C 206Y
non-lie-flat 41C 200Y

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11):
with all due respect for both sides, the Middle East has been a difficult area in terms of peace for a very long time. that being said, we all should pray for the peace of Jerusalem and for all the inhabits of this world.

I agree



yep.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 11162 times:
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Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
Now loaded 767-400ER with lie-flat BE flights:
JFK-GRU begins Jul01
JFK-SVO begins Jul01

Seems that DL is trying to get better yields on this route. It's a nice decision to improve the product and also, expect that the 3 mature markets got the 764 during next summer (ATL-GRU/GIG and JFK-GRU)



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16948 posts, RR: 48
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 11162 times:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 2):
But I thought this route was struggling and a poor performer. Why upgrade it?

Why cut it once a week in March-May?

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3):
Right this is to "make up" for it lossing the 1x weekly to LA.

Nope. It loses the one weekly flight three months prior to GRULAX starting.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 10):
This will certainly provide a boost on DL yields in this important market.

Not likely. DL runs a low load factor in the market, so adding more seats, and therefore ASMs, is going to likely reduce RASM.

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
In addition to the previously announced ATL-BOM,

ATLBOM has also been reduced to 5x weekly. ATLPVG's reduction to 4x weekly extends through the Summer now as well.

[Edited 2009-01-03 14:56:21]


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9081 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 11138 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
Nope. It loses the one weekly flight three months prior to GRULAX starting.

the 764 start on JFK-GRU after LAX-GRU does it not?



yep.
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16948 posts, RR: 48
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 11115 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 15):
the 764 start on JFK-GRU after LAX-GRU does it not?

It starts one month after GRULAX starts.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 11096 times:
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Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
Not likely. DL runs a low load factor in the market, so adding more seats, and therefore ASMs, is going to likely reduce RASM

They will got more travellers for their BE product. I will be one that can consider flying DL (i'm PM) product with more comfort. Not while going to Rio, but when i need to go to São Paulo.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4792 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 10740 times:
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It looks like other upgauging has also been loaded:

JFK-ACC goes 764ER (though according to the seatmap, not with the new lie-flats, but the existing BE seats) starting in June

JFK-BCN also goes 764ER (same as ACC, with the existing BE seats) starting in June...

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11):
There rumors that DL would be moving some or all of the crew rest facilities off the main cabin floor, potentially to an undercabin lobe similar to what is available on the 330. Any confirmation on that?

I believe that's still the plan. If I'm not mistaken, the new seat map of the lie-flat 764ERs reflect this; the existing international 764ERs have seats 43FG and 44FG in the back blocked out for FA rest, whereas the new ones don't.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11):
Putting 2 764s on SVO (ATL and JFK) and using the best seats available on the 76 fleet indicate DL is pulling out all the stops to maintan its position in Russia against new competitors.

It looks like only JFK-SVO is getting the 764ER; ATL-SVO so far looks to be a 763ER during that period. Funny thing is the 764ER already starts on JFK-SVO in June but with the old seat map; the new one with the lie-flats starts Jul 1 and runs through Aug 31, but then the 764ER apparently remains on JFK-SVO in September but with the old config again...I'm sure they are still tweaking everything...

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
Why cut it once a week in March-May

Slow seasons...DL always does this kind of frequency reductions in many markets during slower periods.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
DL runs a low load factor in the market,

DL's JFK-GRU load factors have improved steadily since the start and were very decent )i.e., not low) during 2007 and the first half of 2008. Traffic to/from Brazil started falling off a cliff in the latter part of 2008 (the global financial crisis, but also the drop of the Real which made it more expensive for Brazilians to visit the U.S., since a lot of the Brazil-US traffic was Brazilian-originating). IIRC, AA's load factor for Latin America showed some pretty big declines in November 2008 as well, though I'm not sure of the split with Brazil versus other parts...


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 10641 times:

according to DOT data, DL's LF for Jun 08 on JFKGRU was 83% while AA's was 87. JJ's LF is unknown since they don't have to report to the DOT but DL is clearly holding their own and their LFs would hardly would be considered low.

Other carriers reduce frequencies to Brazil at other times of the year compared to waht they operate during the peak seasons; what DL is doing is not out of the ordinary.

These latest upgrades indicate that the 764ER will be a regular visitor to JFK - which was what was rumored. ATL will get more 330s while JFK will get more 764s. Since the 764 wingspan is less than the 330, it makes sense.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 10589 times:
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Quoting Panamair (Reply 18):
DL's JFK-GRU load factors have improved steadily since the start and were very decent )i.e., not low) during 2007 and the first half of 2008. Traffic to/from Brazil started falling off a cliff in the latter part of 2008 (the global financial crisis, but also the drop of the Real which made it more expensive for Brazilians to visit the U.S., since a lot of the Brazil-US traffic was Brazilian-originating). IIRC, AA's load factor for Latin America showed some pretty big declines in November 2008 as well, though I'm not sure of the split with Brazil versus other parts...

You're right, but you should add the fact that there were additional flights and several aircraft upgrades compared to last year. Also, US-Brazil market also show decline after November. The stronger US$ against BRL can help to offset the economic problems, but only after January we will know.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 10031 times:



Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
ATL-KWI ad-hoc days April-July

What does a-hoc mean?

Quoting Exaauadl (Reply 7):

yields should be good. Dont think it will do as well as UA's IAD-KWI due to govt traffic on UA going to Iraq

Not only to Iraq. A large part of US-KWI markets continue to Saudi, Qatar, and Bahrain (for the government at least). A lot of the guys taking leave in Bahrain have taken advantage of DL's DXB-ATL flight. I can see some of the traffic now being split between DXB and KWI.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 9):
I believe the ATL-LAX-SYD route will commence in July...

Yep, 1 Jully 2009. Can't wait! Is this the first time Delta metal will be in the Down Under (scheduled service)?

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 21):



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 23):

I didn't know what IIRC mean for a loooong time! And yes, Google is the best thing since sliced Wonder Bead.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16948 posts, RR: 48
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7323 times:



Quoting Panamair (Reply 17):
Slow seasons...DL always does this kind of frequency reductions in many markets during slower periods.

Spring break/Easter is not slow season for Latin America

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 18):
Other carriers reduce frequencies to Brazil at other times of the year compared to waht they operate during the peak seasons; what DL is doing is not out of the ordinary.

No US carrier has reduced their GRUNYC schedule since at least as early as DL's first month on the route.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7315 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 18):
according to DOT data, DL's LF for Jun 08 on JFKGRU was 83% while AA's was 87. JJ's LF is unknown since they don't have to report to the DOT but DL is clearly holding their own and their LFs would hardly would be considered low.

Thanks for the information. I personally do not have any doubts that DL JFK-GRU is holding strong. The fact that DL will introduce the B767-400ER refited with the new lie-flat BE seats in GRU will certainly provide DL with a clear edge over competition in the busy JFK-GRU market.

Rgs,


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7122 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 21):
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 18):
Other carriers reduce frequencies to Brazil at other times of the year compared to waht they operate during the peak seasons; what DL is doing is not out of the ordinary.

No US carrier has reduced their GRUNYC schedule since at least as early as DL's first month on the route.

GRUNYC is not the only flight to Latin America - nor the most important for any carrier.

You act as if DL is doing something that other carriers are not. The facts are overwhelming that there are capacity changes to Latin America just as there are to other regions.

Would you like me to start a post on the variation of frequency AND capacity EVERY US airline uses in their flights to Latin America including in capacity restricted markets?


User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1534 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6721 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 20):
What does a-hoc mean?

No consistent schedule in this case.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 20):
Not only to Iraq. A large part of US-KWI markets continue to Saudi, Qatar, and Bahrain (for the government at least). A lot of the guys taking leave in Bahrain have taken advantage of DL's DXB-ATL flight. I can see some of the traffic now being split between DXB and KWI.



Quoting Exaauadl (Reply 7):
yields should be good. Dont think it will do as well as UA's IAD-KWI due to govt traffic on UA going to Iraq

Fort Bragg/Pope AFB, Fort Benning, Fort Stewart, Camp Lejune, Maxwell AFB, Fort Rucker, Blackwater's training facility in North Carolina etc... are all relatively close to Atlanta. Add to that all the bases in Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana and that's a whole lot of traffic to/from Iraq, Afghanistan and the Gulf. Plenty of contractors and soldiers on R&R going to and from the region are going to these bases, not to mention that CENTCOM is based at MacDill AFB. Ever seen the USO at ATL?

[Edited 2009-01-04 10:22:46]

25 Mayor : They pulled out originally, pre 2001, because even tho the flights were 75% full, most of those pax were PanAm FF's redeeming miles. TLV was referred
26 OA412 : The M11 was used on the nonstop JFK-TLV that was flown briefly in 2001 and cancelled right after 9/11.
27 MaverickM11 : It is. It's the only carrier reducing GRUNYC, particularly during Easter/Spring break, in a highly competitive, 5 airline, business market. GRUNYC is
28 WorldTraveler : but you seem to think there is something particularly noteworthy about DL reducing its schedule from JFK, even it means not operating every day, when
29 LipeGIG : Isn't that busy right now. TAM, DL, AA and CO probably can report a drop of up to 30% on Business Class sales and up to 50% on First Class compared t
30 LipeGIG : So far the 764 DL schedule for July uses 16 frames: ATL-GRU 2x (old) ATL-BCN 1x (old) ATL-AMS 1x (old) ATL-LIM 1x (old, now seems to become BE destina
31 FlyASAGuy2005 : The ther 5 are being rotated through MTC/domestic, etc?
32 DeltaL1011man : 744 IIRC its going to become A330 You also forgot ATL-LHR 1x daily 764 (39C/206Y config)
33 WorldTraveler : so what is the reason DL is upgrading JFK-SVO? Surely you aren't going to argue that DL is doing poorly there. Carriers upgrade for many reasons - to
34 DeltaL1011man : It likely it isn't done yet.
35 Hardiwv : Agree 100%. You have a point. However, you may even sell discounted Z fares but we do not know the yields or full fare business fares sold in differe
36 DELTA7478 : I can't wait till I non-rev on that LAX-SYD flight. What is it, like 12 hour flight????
37 LipeGIG : Thanks for the correction. Without the HNL flights, plus LHR, and less also the AMS flight, produces use for 14 frames WT, they can upgrade to provid
38 Nickofatlanta : Usually scheduled for about 14 1/2 hours on LAX-SYD and 13 1/2 hours from SYD-LAX.
39 WorldTraveler : but offering a better product in a competitive market does not mean they are doing poorly and need to upgrade the product. Moscow has long been one o
40 MaverickM11 : In the case of JFKLHR, it most certainly does. It's probably the same with GRUJFK. JFKSVO I assume is different. It depends on the market--airlines p
41 WorldTraveler : it simply says it is a competitive product that needs a higher quality product but assumptions about how the market is doing based solely on the upgr
42 Incitatus : It definitely does. Just look at where DL is planning to deploy its new product - they are all competitive markets where DL lacks an edge for multipl
43 Gigneil : This is actually a really big deal. Using the 764 on as many near-field European routes that require high capacity or the premium products makes as l
44 WorldTraveler : DL gives nothing to anyone at SVO; they are the only US carrier that serves SVO; they are the only US carrier from NYC; their brand is preferred to A
45 Incitatus : With United starting service to Moscow and American already there, it makes perfect sense as a defensive move. BCN also makes sense with DL being edg
46 OA412 : How exactly does CO's 1 additional daily flight EWR-LHR put them in the same league as BA, AA, or VS presence/schedule wise? I don't exactly follow.
47 LipeGIG : Moscow is a good performer, no doubt. GRU is at the same time, a market with strong competition as well as with capacity constrain in both sides. So
48 Hjulicher : Actually, as a passenger without direct service to SVO, I always have to connect to get to SVO. DL's product is at best convenient for NYC passengers
49 FoxBravo : I wouldn't be so sure. I know people who fly JFK-SVO on business fairly often and actually prefer Aeroflot over Delta, or at least rank them equally.
50 Panamair : Actually, name one carrier that is actually not doing poorly on NYC-LHR. In the current situation, it is actually a benefit to DL that they don't hav
51 Gigneil : Eventually, those 767s will get an upgraded product. Just nobody knows when. Arguably, none of those markets local traffic warrant an upgraded premiu
52 DeltaL1011man : ........IIRC the 75 seats came from the D10.........Thats old Fact is ALL the majors have or are upgrading F/C seats. To say CO is upgrading there no
53 WorldTraveler : with all due respect, let me help you. Based on the most recent DOT data 2Q08, DL's JFKGRU had an average fare of nearly $700 and carried 50% local t
54 FoxBravo : Systemwide? No doubt. How about on JFK-SVO? Both fly one 767-300 each day, and from what I understand both generally go out pretty full, so it's hard
55 WorldTraveler : we have no way of knowing since SU doesn't have to report the same type of statistics to the DOT. There are some statistics that can be compared. The
56 Incitatus : It seems AF does not have their LHR-JFK flight available for sale yet. If the market is in the toilet and after a disaster experiment on LHR-LAX shou
57 Hjulicher : Not true.... NYC of course is the mecca, but DTW surely has premium traffic. There was a reason why they operated two flights with First Class cabins
58 Gigneil : Do we think that was O/D DTW traffic, or NW's connecting traffic? NS
59 Hjulicher : It's defenitely O/D traffic. Who do you think connects onto LH in DTW, and where do they connect from? It's automotive related traffic from all the s
60 Hjulicher : Sorry I was rereading the post 57 and I realize that I forgot to mention that it was LH. NW doesn't have any First class service, but there defenitely
61 Panamair : Glen Hauenstein had mentioned in the Investor Day conference call (Dec 9) that Delta would have 2 evening departures JFK-LHR next summer, though he w
62 DeltaL1011man : or DL/AF could be going 4x daily on JFK-LHR (WHILE ATLANTA IS ONLY 1 DAILY!!!!!!) The morning DL flight and the three afternoon DL/AF flights. (I don
63 Panamair : Never say never, but I doubt DLAF will be that crazy to dump that much capacity into NYC-LHR in an "off" year like 2009. If they even retain the dayl
64 Hardiwv : Thanks for the interesting data. It makes a big difference when real data is provided instead of subjective statements which cannot be proven againts
65 MaverickM11 : He gave you one month, and it's not even correct. According to the DOT stats, DL ran a 77% in JUN08, and a 77% for the 12 months ending JUN08, which
66 DeltaL1011man : I agree..........and if not Atlanta would be glad to have it
67 Hardiwv : I find the difference minimum and again proves how well DL is doing. Only 4pt lower than TAM, which runs a major hub in GRU and double daily flights,
68 LipeGIG : Remember June is a high season month and well, so we should compare data with other airlines: Load Factor GRU-JFK - DL 70% GIG-GRU-JFK - AA 88% GRU-J
69 Panamair : OK, folks, I just pulled the RAW DOT T-100 data off of the BTS website, and here's the RAW traffic stats for both AA and DL in the JFK-GRU market for
70 Panamair : Edit: also, looks like for June 2008, GRU-JFK DL had a LF of 72% and 83% for JFK-GRU so both WT and MaverickM11 are right since WT was talking about J
71 Keesje : ATL-SYD? Missed that. When?
72 Panamair : Sorry supposed to be ATL-LAX-SYD...wouldn't let me edit
73 WorldTraveler : no we shouldn't. DL doesn't route plan for anyone else except itself and those airlines with which it has ATI. It is worth knowing what other carrier
74 DeltaL1011man : but it is same flight number and same plane.
75 LipeGIG : This is not smart for a route only reach 90% one or two months per year. What do you expect with more seats ? Lower fares to fill the plane ? For me
76 WorldTraveler : DL's LF on JFK-GRU is more than satisfactory and above average based on their traffic stats. You should know that other carriers have variability in
77 Jetlanta : This about sums it up.
78 Panamair : Indeed, the average LF for JFK-GRU in 1H 08 is around 80%...that is definitely above average compared to many other international routes not only at
79 MaverickM11 : Except for the whole "cutting a flight" during Easter in Latin America thing... Quite the contrary--in fact you have yet to put forth a single bit of
80 Gigneil : I agree that we have absolutely no evidence that they're doing all that well. NS
81 OA412 : Do you have access to the actual profit/loss numbers for the route? If not, you can no more say that the route is struggling/making a loss than anyon
82 Jetlanta : Mav, Gigneil.... It does fine. Absolutely fine. Nobody is going to be able to spell it out better than that on here. Either you can believe it or not
83 Gigneil : Hey I'm not really saying they weren't... I was just agreeing we really didn't have anything to go on either way. I'm a reasonable human being. JFK-GR
84 Flighty : My friends use the flight via connect. JFK is no picnic to connect thru. Delta could solidify things at JFK by cultivating their connectivity there. B
85 Jetlanta : Its cool. I understand the skepticism, especially when comparing revenue data to other carriers. However, there is no context available in terms of f
86 Hardiwv : It seems all airlines are doing prety well on JFK-GRU. It is important to remember that LF dont tell us much in such a high yielding routes with stro
87 LipeGIG : JFK is the best long-haul JJ route. Yields are higher than any other and cargo volumes are amazing. I think we agree now, DL does not performs badly,
88 Incitatus : Let me try to hammer on this single fact again: Looking at specific cost/revenue information is not necessary. If Delta took the action of going from
89 MaverickM11 : True, but it's still pretty hard to escape the fact that DL is the only carrier cutting the route back, and that speaks louder than any of the other
90 Mayor : Speculation is much different than saying something is definitely true. From Merriam-Webster "1 a: to meditate on or ponder a subject : reflect b: to
91 Hardiwv : We all know DL is the "weak player" for GRU-JFK because 1) it currently has the poorest product overall; and 2) it is the "new kid on the block" cons
92 LipeGIG : Not a surprise to me because of the fare level and considering all flights from GIG and GRU got more than 75% loads, in general above 80%.
93 Hardiwv : Not bad then I would say! Btw, have a look at the report above. Rgs,
94 Jetlanta : Oh wow. Here we go again. I am going to say this very clearly. This route is a good performer for Delta. I'm not guessing. We can argue about whether
95 OA412 : I'm all for speculation and never made any claims to the contrary. What I don't agree with is deciding that something is true without all pertinent i
96 Incitatus : I believe you in entirety of the statement above. Not accurate. It should be "They aren't going to be losing *much* quality premium traffic". There i
97 UN_B732 : JFK-SVO goes to the 764? Wooohoooo! Finally decent entertainment on my flights out of Moscow!!! Anyone know if ATL will go 764 as well? -A
98 MaverickM11 : I'm sure it was. Absolutely. They clearly want to build a presence at LAX, increase connectivity between South America and Asia, and they have the ri
99 Hardiwv : Thats another good angle of viewing DL strategy for Brazil which must take into account the airline's overall services to the country (ie ATL-GIG, AT
100 Panamair : No, ATL-SVO looks like it's a 763ER this summer so far. JFK-MXP is one.
101 DELTA7478 : WOW 13 hour I better get Business Elite on that one. I need to try that new lie-flat suite..
102 MaverickM11 : True...but Italy is *very* seasonal and not capacity controlled the way GRU is.
103 Nycbjr : In what way is DL's product inferior? I've always found DL to be on par with any other US carrier. Admittedly BE needs an update but it is in the pro
104 MaverickM11 : I'd argue that product is almost irrelevant. You're gonna fly DL if your company has a corporate agreement with them, regardless of product, and that
105 LipeGIG : Considering JFK-GRU/GIG route, DL offer a 763 without PTV for example. AA, JJ offers. Also AA and JJ offers flat/lie flat beds on Business, DL wont
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