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767-777 At MSP  
User currently offlinePatches From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 296 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5409 times:

Now that Delta and NWA have merged, what I really mean to say is: Now that Delta has TAKEN over NW, when will we start to see some 767 and 777 action at MSP. We never get to see that type of aircraft at MSP really at all. It would be quite a change to finally see those beautiful birds instead of the same old stuff like A320's, 757's DC-9;s etc. Whats the time-table on the big Boeings coming to MSP?

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5381 times:

There are threads floating around out there where DL announced some routes for '09 that will include a/c swaps between both carriers. One being the ATL-NRT that is going to a 744.

I'm sure those in the know will help you out.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineNwarooster From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1154 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5315 times:
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Before Delta can operate 767s and 777s out of MSP, Delta will have base Delta flight crews out of MSP. Northwest employees are fenced out these aircraft, plus they are NOT qualified on them.  old 


Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8913 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5287 times:



Quoting Nwarooster (Reply 2):
Before Delta can operate 767s and 777s out of MSP, Delta will have base Delta flight crews out of MSP. Northwest employees are fenced out these aircraft, plus they are NOT qualified on them.

They don't necessarily need to base flight crews out of MSP. The route most likely to go 777 is MSP-NRT, and if that does happen, it could easily be done as a 7 day trip out of JFK or ATL that involves 4 trans-Pacific crossings.

Same is true for the LHR/CDG/AMS flights that could go 767. They could easily be done as 7 day trips out of ATL/JFK/CVG.

As for domestic flights, I tend to doubt you'll see 767s on these flights. They've been pretty much limited to just ATL now, and the NW 757-300s accomplish many of the same objectives that the DL 767-300s tend to fill. I think it's been said that even when the fleets migrate around a little bit (and we see A320s and DC-9s at DL hubs and 737s and MD-80s at NW hubs), the 757-300s were going to be the exception to this migration and stay in DTW/MSP as Delta already has the 767-300s for ATL and don't need such an aircraft operating out of SLC/CVG.


User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5246 times:

MSP-CDG will start on April 1, 2009 and will be operated with a DL 767-300ER.

Jeremy


User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2714 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5220 times:

I would prefer staying an airport with A330s and 747s. But sadly the international concourse will have mostly just 767s and one or two 777s.  Sad Would a 763 or 764 be used on MSP-HNL and a 777 used on MSP-NRT? Both of those routes get a big load factor so it would seem to make sense to keep it A330/747 service.


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5042 times:



Quoting Nwarooster (Reply 2):

That's absolutely not true. There have been announced 767/A330/747 swaps. The plan was to do longer trips but for now, no new crew bases are needed.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4946 times:



Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 3):
the 757-300s were going to be the exception to this migration and stay in DTW/MSP as Delta already has the 767-300s for ATL and don't need such an aircraft operating out of SLC/CVG.

/they have 763 routes out of SLC and LAX

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 5):
Would a 763 or 764 be used on MSP-HNL and a 777 used on MSP-NRT? Both of those routes get a big load factor so it would seem to make sense to keep it A330/747 service.

Loads can be high and the flight may not be making money. Yields sre what matters. To get better yield you reduce the number of seats in the market. (swap 767s for 330s and 777s for 744)

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 6):
That's absolutely not true. There have been announced 767/A330/747 swaps. The plan was to do longer trips but for now, no new crew bases are needed.

Thats only half true. DL will be adding FA bases to some NW bases (PDX and SEA) and NWA will be doing the same (ATL and SLC IIRC)



yep.
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8913 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4920 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 7):

/they have 763 routes out of SLC and LAX

Nothing out of SLC (HNL is a 767-400, OGG is a 757). Out of LAX, OGG/HNL are indeed 767-300s, but they feed via ATL (I believe, for HNL, the plane routing goes ATL-LAX-HNL-LAX-HNL-LAX-ATL).


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4912 times:



Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 8):
Nothing out of SLC (HNL is a 767-400, OGG is a 757). Out of LAX, OGG/HNL are indeed 767-300s, but they feed via ATL (I believe, for HNL, the plane routing goes ATL-LAX-HNL-LAX-HNL-LAX-ATL).

SLC-ATL and IIRC JFK are 763s........plus CDG.  duck 
LAX has 2x daily HNL 1x daily OOG and a s**t ton of ATL flights (MCO may be 763 too I cant remember



yep.
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6535 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4868 times:



Quoting Nwarooster (Reply 2):
Before Delta can operate 767s and 777s out of MSP, Delta will have base Delta flight crews out of MSP. Northwest employees are fenced out these aircraft, plus they are NOT qualified on them

Why would DL have to have pilot bases in MSP to operate 767/777flights out of there? DL flies out of there already with other equipment with-out a base. If is because the 767/777 are wide bodies then look at NW flying widebodys out of BOS,MEM,LAX,SFO.PDX with having crews based there.(pilot). To my knowledge no airline in the word has crews based at every city they fly out of. Why should DL and MSP be any different?


User currently offlineNWA757300 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 299 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4824 times:

So far the only route swap in MSP is MSP-CDG. A330 to 763. DL will be opening AFPs in MSP and DTW as well.

User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3408 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4803 times:



Quoting Patches (Thread starter):
We never get to see that type of aircraft at MSP really at all. It would be quite a change to finally see those beautiful birds instead of the same old stuff like A320's, 757's DC-9;s etc. Whats the time-table on the big Boeings coming to MSP?

What? A 747 doesn't count as a "big boeing?"



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8913 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4769 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 9):
SLC-ATL and IIRC JFK are 763s........plus CDG. duck
LAX has 2x daily HNL 1x daily OOG and a s**t ton of ATL flights (MCO may be 763 too I cant remember

SLC-ATL is all 737-800/757/767-400 - no 767-300s. JFK-SLC is all 737-800/757.

LAX-ATL is a 767-300 route, but the point I was trying to make was for flights beside ATL. LAX-OGG and LAX-HNL (x2) are the only three 767-300 Domestic config flights in the system that don't include ATL.

Wasn't including SLC-CDG either since that's a totally different configuration than the 767-300 Domestics.


User currently offlineN104UA From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 921 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4676 times:



Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 3):
They don't necessarily need to base flight crews out of MSP. The route most likely to go 777 is MSP-NRT, and if that does happen, it could easily be done as a 7 day trip out of JFK or ATL that involves 4 trans-Pacific crossings.

They do not need to do that they could just dead head crews from JFK-MSP



"Learn the rules, so you know how to break them properly." -H.H. The Dalai Lama
User currently offlineNwarooster From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1154 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4570 times:
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Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 10):
Quoting Nwarooster (Reply 2):
Before Delta can operate 767s and 777s out of MSP, Delta will have base Delta flight crews out of MSP. Northwest employees are fenced out these aircraft, plus they are NOT qualified on them

Why would DL have to have pilot bases in MSP to operate 767/777flights out of there? DL flies out of there already with other equipment with-out a base. If is because the 767/777 are wide bodies then look at NW flying widebodys out of BOS,MEM,LAX,SFO.PDX with having crews based there.(pilot). To my knowledge no airline in the word has crews based at every city they fly out of. Why should DL and MSP be any different?



Quoting N104UA (Reply 14):
Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 3):
They don't necessarily need to base flight crews out of MSP. The route most likely to go 777 is MSP-NRT, and if that does happen, it could easily be done as a 7 day trip out of JFK or ATL that involves 4 trans-Pacific crossings.

They do not need to do that they could just dead head crews from JFK-MSP

Deadheading flight crews form one city to another is not always reliable. If there is a mechanical problem, crews can run out of time. Also, the stage lengths of these flights would most likely will be international. Not short domestic flights.  old 



Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6535 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4548 times:



Quoting Nwarooster (Reply 15):
Deadheading flight crews form one city to another is not always reliable. If there is a mechanical problem, crews can run out of time. Also, the stage lengths of these flights would most likely will be international. Not short domestic

As said before, what about NWA doing Intl trips out of BOS,MEM,BDL,EWR,LAX,SFO,PDX without pilot crew bases in those cities. The crews do not all deadhead, they may do a trip that runs DTW-AMS-BOS-AMS-DTW, or SEA-NRT-SFO-NRT-SEA. I do not know if those are actual trips, but is an example of how Intl trips can be flown without a crew base. So DL could easily do ATL-NRT-MSP-NRT-ATL. Requires zero deadheading.


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8913 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4511 times:



Quoting Nwarooster (Reply 15):
Deadheading flight crews form one city to another is not always reliable. If there is a mechanical problem, crews can run out of time.

Also, the opportunity cost is a huge question mark too. If you're deadheading pilots, it's quite possible that their contract, if flying in that day from another city, might require F cabin seats. Push comes to shove, that's two-three less seats you can sell (even if their coach seats since you can upgrade elites into F). The airline has to consider the potential lost revenue from not being able to sell these seats but to use them for crew instead. Not to mention the potential for delays, etc. Generally, in cases like this, it would appear that the opportunity cost of deadheading a crew in for a flight is lower than the associated expenses (hotel, etc.) of doing a four-leg international trip.


User currently offlinePatches From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 296 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4079 times:



Quoting NWAESC (Reply 12):

Hey NWAESC, I know MSP has 747's but they don't have 777-767 hardly ever. thats all I was trying to say.


User currently offlinePanAm788 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3427 times:



Quoting Nwarooster (Reply 2):
Before Delta can operate 767s and 777s out of MSP, Delta will have base Delta flight crews out of MSP. Northwest employees are fenced out these aircraft, plus they are NOT qualified on them.

NW's 757 pilots can fly the 767 with minimal training..same cockpit.



You know nothing Jon Snow
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8913 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3366 times:



Quoting PanAm788 (Reply 19):

NW's 757 pilots can fly the 767 with minimal training..same cockpit.

But they can't touch the 767 until they are on the same operating certificate.


User currently offlinePanAm788 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3335 times:



Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 20):
But they can't touch the 767 until they are on the same operating certificate.

When will that happen?



You know nothing Jon Snow
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3196 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 9):
LAX has 2x daily HNL 1x daily OOG and a s**t ton of ATL flights (MCO may be 763 too I cant remember

LAX - MCO is a 737-800


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8913 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3112 times:



Quoting PanAm788 (Reply 21):
When will that happen?

Probably anywhere between 16-20 months from now. Plenty of issues that are of much greater concern right now than getting the two certificates merged - that's generally one of the last steps for the airline to take.


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