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Flags On Planes In Reverse?  
User currently offline1821 From Greece, joined Jul 2007, 271 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 22333 times:

Just a qucik one , my usual Sunday spotting at SYD and have not paid too much attention but when i was drooling  drool  at QF's A388 ( by the way it was over 30 min late from it's scheduled 15:05pm departure to LAX ) i noticed that the Australian flag was painted " backwards". Just wandering y do airlines do this? Thanx in advance!!!!!


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62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8451 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 22331 times:
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SAA do the same on the right side of the aircraft and it looks particularly stupid because the airline's livery is a stylised version of the flag, so the flag and livery clash. Ironically on the other side where the flag is the right way round it still looks odd!

It would make more sense to have the flags on the opposite sides that they are now.


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After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineShanxz From Singapore, joined Apr 2006, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 22304 times:



Quoting Andz (Reply 1):
SAA do the same on the right side of the aircraft

Same for SQ. I wonder why...



Airlines are in the service business, not transport. Brand matters...
User currently offlineGothamSpotter From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 22307 times:



Quoting 1821 (Thread starter):
i noticed that the Australian flag was painted " backwards". Just wandering y do airlines do this? Thanx in advance!!!!!

Flag protocol dictates that flags painted on vehicles such as planes and trains appear as if they are flying the way the wind would be blowing them when the vehicle is moving forward.


User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8451 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 22260 times:
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well that makes sense I suppose.


After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2237 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 22253 times:



Quoting GothamSpotter (Reply 3):
Flag protocol dictates that flags painted on vehicles such as planes and trains appear as if they are flying the way the wind would be blowing them when the vehicle is moving forward.

That is correct. A simpler way to look at it is to imagine that the front-cockpit is the flag mast and that the wind blows from front to back.

JAT's planes also have the flag "in reverse".



Kafa, čaj, šraf?
User currently offlineLASoctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 22240 times:

I know every "N" registered plane in the US has it's flag painted in reverse on one of the sides..


[NOT IN SERVICE] {WEStJet}
User currently offlineKL5147 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 326 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 22173 times:



Quoting GothamSpotter (Reply 3):
Flag protocol dictates that flags painted on vehicles such as planes and trains appear as if they are flying the way the wind would be blowing them when the vehicle is moving forward.

Some (former) airline companies seems not to know this protocol, or act according to it.

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(or are there different rules for flags on engines) Big grin



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User currently offlineShanxz From Singapore, joined Apr 2006, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 22167 times:



Quoting JoKeR (Reply 5):
That is correct. A simpler way to look at it is to imagine that the front-cockpit is the flag mast and that the wind blows from front to back.

Good explanation. Is there a reason for this convention though?



Airlines are in the service business, not transport. Brand matters...
User currently offlineFlexo From St. Helena, joined Mar 2007, 406 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 22127 times:



Quoting Shanxz (Reply 8):
Good explanation. Is there a reason for this convention though?

The US army does it the same way on their uniforms and a guy I spoke to told me that it is done that way because otherwise the flag would look like they are retreating backwards, which is not an impression the army wants to give.


User currently offlineGST From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 930 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 21999 times:



Quoting Flexo (Reply 9):
the flag would look like they are retreating backwards

Isnt that going forewards?  Big grin

I really like JoKeR's view on it, never thought about it like that before.


User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1917 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks ago) and read 21887 times:

Here is the AF example:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-F...rev_id=1460406&next_id=1457443

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-F...rev_id=1446797&next_id=1429012

Reversed flag on starboard side.

[Edited 2009-01-04 05:06:39]

User currently offlineTymnBalewne From Bermuda, joined Mar 2005, 947 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 21788 times:

Interestingly flags on both side of JL aircraft are backwards. Or are they forward?  duck 


Dewmanair...begins with Dew
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 21627 times:



Quoting KL5147 (Reply 7):
Some (former) airline companies seems not to know this protocol, or act according to it.

I know its an Act in the US and most of the world, but not all countried may abide by it, I know that there are very stiff "Flag laws" here in the United States. IE no flag may touch the ground and if it shall it should be sent in to the government for burning, if one burns a flag its punishable by a minimum of like $1000 and 30 days in jail for a first offense etc.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineDragon6172 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1202 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 21513 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 13):
if one burns a flag its punishable by a minimum of like $1000 and 30 days in jail for a first offense etc.

Pretty sure Texas v. Johnson and United States v. Eichman stated and reaffirmed that flag desecration was protected under the First Amendment.



Phrogs Phorever
User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4926 posts, RR: 43
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 21494 times:



Quoting TymnBalewne (Reply 12):
Interestingly flags on both side of JL aircraft are backwards.

Odd ... I noticed the same thing on Canadian airplanes.  Smile



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineArgonaut From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 2004, 422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 21358 times:

Actually, this question has been asked and answered many times before on a.net.

Yes, it's done to make the flag appear from both sides to be streaming rearwards from an imaginary flagstaff. And, as someone mentioned, the same thing is usual on official and military vehicles and uniforms (e.g. flags on shoulders).

Illustrations of flags conventionally show them as they would look with the flagpole to the left, so that's what we're used to seeing. As a result, they can look 'backwards' when seen from the other side.

AFAIK there is no general convention, although some individual countries probably have their own rules about it.

The U.K. flag is traditionally streamed rearward on both sides of an aircraft, too, so it can look peculiar on the starboard side. (No, the Union Flag is NOT symmetrical, although plenty people don't seem to be aware of the fact---in the U.S.A., I'm sorry to say, it's absolutely normal to see it flying upside-down.  sigh  Wink



rj



'the rank is but the guinea stamp'
User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 21309 times:



Quoting Shanxz (Reply 8):
Good explanation. Is there a reason for this convention though?

This is just an assumption, but a lot of aviation practices come from maritime traditions.

A flag is flown at the stern of a military ship, and when people started painting flags on the rear of aircraft - they wanted it to look like a flag flown from a ship - with the flagpole at the front of the aircraft.

But a ship provides a three dimensional frame of reference, while an aircraft side only provides a two dimensional frame.

And yes you are going to find many examples where the flag is painted on the aircraft opposite to what should be the convention - just as you will find many examples of a flag displayed improperly.

I once got a very pointed and detailed explaination about flying the UK flag upside down from a Royal Navy LT. I did not even know there was a top and bottom of the UK flag at the time.

But I danged well remembered.


User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8451 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 21247 times:
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Quoting Argonaut (Reply 16):
it's absolutely normal to see it flying upside-down

I was at the British MotoGP at Donington in 2006 and the track announcer called someone in the crowd out about flying the flag upside down.

For those who don't know...



In the bottom left quadrant (with the flag pole on the left), the diagonal red stripe must be closer to the bottom than the top of the diagonal white area.



After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8229 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 21007 times:

As has been said, the mast is the front of the airplane.

You can also think of it as that you're only seeing one side of the flag. If you turned the US flag around, for example, the union would be immediately opposite the union on the other side, not all the way across the flag on the other side of the stripes. The flag you see on one side of the plane is only half of the whole thing, the other half is on the other side!



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineBA1978 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2004, 185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 20549 times:



Quoting Argonaut (Reply 16):
I'm sorry to say, it's absolutely normal to see it flying upside-down.

...traditionally sign of distress! Although I'm sure that's not the intention in these cases



There are other ways and there's British Airways
User currently offlineAirbusA370 From Germany, joined Dec 2008, 253 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 20319 times:



Quoting JoKeR (Reply 5):
Flag protocol dictates that flags painted on vehicles such as planes and trains appear as if they are flying the way the wind would be blowing them when the vehicle is moving forward.

Ok, but what is with helicopters, in particular when they are flying backwards?  duck 


User currently offlineA350 From Germany, joined Nov 2004, 1100 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 18933 times:



Quoting Andz (Reply 18):
I was at the British MotoGP at Donington in 2006 and the track announcer called someone in the crowd out about flying the flag upside down.

But in fact they only fixed the right hand side instead of the left hand side of the flag to the flagstaff  duck 

Cheers

A350



Photography - the art of observing, not the art of arranging
User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2306 posts, RR: 21
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 18865 times:



Quoting Breiz (Reply 11):
Here is the AF example:

How come AF doesn't fly their current flag in their current color scheme? Or is it represented by the stripes on the tail?



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineKU747 From Kuwait, joined Mar 2008, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 18618 times:

NW logo does not make sense.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/North...-Airlines/Boeing-747-451/1369597/M

http://www.airliners.net/photo/North...Airlines/Boeing-747-451/1367040/M/

Starboard side is pointing to Northeast and the other side points to Northwest.

It seems that both sides should reflect each other. anyway NW is gone, too bad.



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25 77411 : Exactly what I have been told also. All flag protocols. The US flag is to always be displayed with the blue field forward. Another example would be i
26 Antoniemey : Actually, a flag is not supposed to touch the ground, but nowhere in the laws regarding treatment of the flag does it say that it should be burned. I
27 Post contains images VV701 : Some countries require all aircraft locally registered to carry the national flag. An example is Germany. Other countries have no such requirement. E
28 Phileet92 : Yea, ive thought about that one too
29 Olympus69 : I think the way flags are displayed on aircraft goes back to the days when a country's flag carrier had a small mast above the cockpit. When the plane
30 Phelpsie87 : From what I've heard, the logo is supposed to symbolize the airline moving forward, so the "arrow" is always pointed toward the front. Not sure if th
31 United787 : I wonder how long a flag would last on a 747? Would look damn cool taking off!
32 Robsaw : The code isn't a law or regulation per se, but rather a "guide": "This code is the guide for all handling and display of the Stars and Stripes. It do
33 SSTsomeday : I would assume the deciding factors are: 1) Whether it is the actual flag; or a graphic BASED on the flag, but still looking like "a flag," 2) Whethe
34 Post contains images 1821 : Hope this photo helps. Cheers for the reply's guy's and girls.
35 Chuchoteur : ... and if the White Enseign (Royal Navy Flag), means mutiny on board!
36 EK413 : Sorry, I didn't catch the rego. of the Retrojet by Air France... EK413
37 LH526 : YES!! One of the most stupid and awkward mistakes EVER done by a branding agency ... I simply can see them working and designing the livery on one si
38 B727 : I had no clue the Union Jack could be flown upside down. thanks for pointing that out Andz. B727 Glenn
39 Oldeuropean : Yeah, also the same for LH. Misterious ... Axel
40 Olympus69 : If it's so stupid and awkward why has it never been corrected? I'll tell you why. Because of the shape of the fin, the design doesn't work very well
41 Post contains images Argonaut : You're absolutely right. Back in the 1950s, BOAC did this routinely. Shortly after touching down, the flight crew would reach out of the cockpit DV w
42 Breiz : That would have marred the harmony of the white fuselage As you guessed, the nature of the stripes on the fin makes the flag redundant.
43 Post contains links and images DUALRATED : BIG mistake especially if you look at the original which the current NW logo is based of off, It pointed northwest, It was also a letter N, and a let
44 SXDFC : If he is coming from Tokyo and he is flying east then he is pointed in the right direction
45 KL5147 : Strange ........ it happens on Dutch planes too, I wonder why?!?! .........
46 Post contains links and images CitationJet : If you are viewing a flag flying on a flag pole, the flag is "reversed" half the time. No one questions that concept. Here is a good example of the a
47 BrightCedars : You'll have noticed that on the same picture good old Sabena did the reverse trick for the European flag, odd they didn't do it for the national flag
48 Post contains links and images CitationJet : Agreed. But actually when viewing a flag pole, the pole is only on the left side 50% of the time. Here is a flag pole on the right, and the right sid
49 Post contains links and images Rikkus67 : Wardair in Canada actually had a small pole painted onto their Canadian Flags. View Large View MediumPhoto © Sunil Gupta It's actually sort of fu
50 FlyASAGuy2005 : It makes sense. Pretty simple. The image (on eaither side) depicts the flag actually flying in the wind of the a/c was moving forward.
51 Sphealey : Except that this "protocol" has only come into general use in the last 10 years as far as I can recall. Before about 1995 the only place I ever saw t
52 Beertrucker : If you look at it from what you all saying. If the plane is flying which was will the flag be flying. Maybe that is what they were trying to make it l
53 Post contains links and images Andz : Have a look at this V Australia 777. The Union Jack on the rear of the fuselage is back to front. I'd be interested to see what the other side looks l
54 Post contains images Birdwatching : The US logo is also wrong on the right side of the plane. Soren
55 LH526 : NOT a big mistake at all! Granted on the background tail. BUT the larger tail in front (and that is the liery I'm refering to) clearly shows the comp
56 Post contains links and images RootsAir : Another one : The Kuwaiti flag on Kuwait Airways is also reversed! View Large View MediumPhoto © Udo K. Haafke Regards BM
57 Post contains links and images OtnySASLHR : Dan-air London (1953-1992) always portrayed the House flag as if lying in the wind on both sides of the aircraft (ie reversed on the starboard side)
58 Breiz : Which does not matter because, as you wrote, it is a logo, not a national flag.
59 Contrails15 : Our planes B6 used to have the flags backwards and then one day they changed the planes that had the ones backwards and all the new planes coming in h
60 Post contains links and images DUALRATED : Umm............. Thats what I'm saying I'm just stating that the new logo is based off the old logo which was perfect no matter which way it was faci
61 LongHauler : Exactly. Fashioned after a stylized US flag, it is still a logo. However, if you look at the actual US flag on both of those shots, you will see that
62 Olympus69 : OK. I get your point now. However, NW presumably approved it Anyway it's too late to change it now
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