Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
BWI Airport And Transatlantic Flights  
User currently offlineAirsrpska From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 52 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6905 times:

How to explain that BWI have only BA with direct flight to London and Europe?
What about other airliners, I know that BWI is 'only' secondary airport for Washington DC area but still, it would be nice to have other airlines on BWI with direct flights to Europe.
I wish Southwest Airlines will start in near future their international flights and as BWI is one of it's hub, it will be wonderful to see flights from BWI to all across Europe! Such as, BWI-FRA,
BWI-CDG,BWI-MUC, BWI-AMS, and so on... Wouldn't be great that?!
And of course, is that real and possible?

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3123 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6906 times:

I believe Icelandair either has flown in the past or is still currently flying KEF-BWI.

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineAMS From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1691 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6887 times:

Martinair Holland as well as KLM used to fly from AMS-BWI.

BWI-FRA BWI-ORY BWI-FCO was also operated by Express One (Charter flights in the 90's)

Aer Lingus flew DUB-BWI

I believe there were some more European routes as well.'

Best Regards,

AMS


User currently offlineAirsrpska From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 52 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6882 times:

Thanks AMS,

So, it's possible to see flights to Europe again, I hope so!


User currently offlineMats From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 629 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6659 times:

TWA also used to fly from Baltimore. I believe the flight was to Charles de Gaulle.

El Al had a counter at BWI Terminal E, but I think it was for flights operated by North American Airlines, connecting to El Al in New York or Miami.

Greenlandair tried flying from Baltimore to Sondre Stromfjord.

I believe the USAir's initial BWI-London/Gatwick flight was taken over from Piedmont, or was that just the Charlotte flight?

And let's not forget Goldfinger, whose Lockheed JetStar landed in Baltimore en route to Kentucky.


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5048 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6630 times:

I think most of the armchair CEO's here on A-net (myself included) are of the opinion that if significant low fare transatlantic ops begin, BWI will be one of the main beneficiaries.

Southwest have already laid the groundwork for codeshares to Canada and Mexico. A Euro partner would be the next logical step, with BWI being the prime candidate as a transfer point.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5401 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6623 times:



Quoting Airsrpska (Thread starter):
How to explain that BWI have only BA with direct flight to London and Europe?

The BA flight exists because the state of Maryland is committed to subsidizing it.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2920 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6536 times:



Quoting Mats (Reply 4):
TWA also used to fly from Baltimore. I believe the flight was to Charles de Gaulle.

TWA operated BWI-LGW-FRA for awhile.


User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6477 times:

Back in the 80s...when World was trying scheduled service, they had a 'hub' at BWI and I believe flew to FRA and LGW.

User currently offlineIaddca From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 286 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6410 times:

This issue comes up every couple of months here.

As a previous poster mentioned, the one BA flight is subsidized by the state of MD, and the airline has threatened to cut it in the past.

BWI's biggest problem in not IAD, PHL, or any other airport, but rather weak demographics for int'l travel in the Baltimore region. In addition to all the diplomats and int'l companies doing business along the Dulles Toll Road, the huge population of college educated grads in Fairfax, Loudoun, Arlington, Alex, DC, and Montgomery towers over the far more modest number of such grads in Howard, AA, Harford, Carroll, Balt City and County.

Demograhically, metro Baltimore looks a lot more like Cleveland or St. Louis than other cities on the 95 corridor. It might get CDG or AMS service someday, but BWI's strength will continue to be great fares, not great destinations.


User currently offlineDstc47 From Ireland, joined Sep 1999, 1468 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6322 times:



Quoting AMS (Reply 2):
Aer Lingus flew DUB-BWI

Indeed they did - twice, stopped post 9/11, resumed and then stopped again.

Now serving IAD in place of BWI, but loads by all accounts not too spectacular at IAD.


User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1644 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6107 times:



Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 8):
Back in the 80s...when World was trying scheduled service, they had a 'hub' at BWI and I believe flew to FRA and LGW.

Yes, I remember that. My one-and-only ever trip to Baltimore was on WO's DC10 from LGW-BWI.



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlineStarAlliance38 From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1445 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6081 times:

If I'm not mistaken, Mexicana served BWI once.

If only US kept it's hub in BWI, there may have been trans-atlan. flights



Roar, lion, roar
User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2496 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6043 times:



Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 1):
or is still currently flying KEF-BWI.

Was. I believe they stopped in 2005 or 2006.

Long term, BWI's best hope for international traffic lies with WN but even then, pax connecting from overseas (read: not Canada, Mexico or the Caribbean) will have to arrive in the E pier and then make their way over to the A pier. Not a big deal, but not ideal either.

As a resident of Baltimore, I feel qualified to say that the city is in need of an extreme image makeover. There is much history here, a great food and arts scene, and some of the best medical R&D in the world. That said, most everyone focuses on the blight and crime; rightfully so in many ways. Until the city makes a robust effort to attract business (reducing the astronomically high property taxes would be a start), and a concerted effort to better tout its wares, it's doubtful that BWI will attract much international traffic. Likewise, despite MD's ranking as the "wealthiest" per capita income state in the Union, BWI is likely to play second fiddle to IAD in terms of international departures. IAD has the luxury of already being the home to O&D international traffic from just about every flag carrier in the world; BWI is in the disadvantageous position of having to lure, steal or compete against that very fact which explains (as others have pointed out), it needs to subsidize BA flights. Those flights, as I understand, don't draw particularly high loads, either.


777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineSL1200MK2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 32 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5966 times:

Good Point about Baltimore, I always found the same thing in relation to the perception and then the reality of the city. Agreed, much of the criticism is indeed true but also there is a ton of great stuff in Baltimore.

That being said, as a former DC resident and wanna-be traveler I never found BWI to be that much of a pain to get to. Agreed, IAD is indeed a teeny bit easier but never enough for me to ignore a great fare domestically from BWI. With this in mind I would find it even easier to get out to BWI for a flight to Europe.

Alas though, one would assume that if there was money to be made flying trans-Atlantic from BWI it would exist.


User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2496 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5946 times:



Quoting SL1200MK2 (Reply 14):
never found BWI to be that much of a pain to get to

BWI is uber-convenient from 95, 295, 97, and rail. It's a mere 15-20 minutes from downtown Baltimore and literally right off of the aforementioned highways. Easy in, easy out, plenty of parking and nice terminals.


777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9191 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5877 times:



Quoting SL1200MK2 (Reply 14):

Good Point about Baltimore, I always found the same thing in relation to the perception and then the reality of the city. Agreed, much of the criticism is indeed true but also there is a ton of great stuff in Baltimore.

There is a ton of great stuff there. I went down there for the first time in 2006, and I fell in love with what I saw down there. The National Aquarium, the World Trade Center, the Inner Harbor, only to name a few places in that city.

It is true, that there is some blight, and even at the Inner Harbor, there were a lot of pan-handlers. THere is this neat looking fountain down there as well, and there was talk of removing that because of the homeless/pan-handelers that hang out there. My twocents on that: removing that feature will not remove the panhandelers. Laws are not being enforced. I think they need to enforce the laws. If you ask me, features like that bring people into the cities. Remove something like that, and you just cut off your nose to spite your face IMO.

They want to put in some mediocre park there instead of that fountain. Why not design a new park/garden around it and enforce panhandling/loitering laws...

Coming back to the topic, I also think it would be nice to have additional European service, but I guess subsidized London service would suffice for now. Not that many small-to-medium-sized cities have European service unless there are subsidies. Look at PIT and their DL CDG flights beginning later on. There are subsidies of up to 9 million bucks from state and local support that kick in if profits fall short of expectations...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1537 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5805 times:



Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 6):
The BA flight exists because the state of Maryland is committed to subsidizing it.

To the tune of an eight figure subsidy/incentive or whatever you want to call it.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 16):
There is a ton of great stuff there. I went down there for the first time in 2006, and I fell in love with what I saw down there. The National Aquarium, the World Trade Center, the Inner Harbor, only to name a few places in that city.

Baltimore has beautiful parts to it, but the city is a dump. It, for all intents and purposes, is Mogadishu with a high speed rail line through it.

The Wire, for what it's worth, is pretty close to the truth. The city needs a miracle, and it came half heartedly in the form of a revitalized waterfront, but that development needs to spread beyond the water front.

Not to crap on the Big Easy, but Baltimore is the New Orleans of the Northeast. There is a reason that that there is little transatlantic service to Baltimore, and it's Washington Dulles and Philadelphia. The catchment area is split in half, and what isn't picked up by those two is probably routed over New York, Atlanta, etc...


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5401 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5599 times:



Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 17):
To the tune of an eight figure subsidy/incentive or whatever you want to call it.

Up to $5.5 million a year for the next two years.

http://www.topix.com/forum/com/bab/TN887ERE72MT8CDLU



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineKGAIflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4262 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5573 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting StarAlliance38 (Reply 12):
If I'm not mistaken, Mexicana served BWI once.

As well as Ghana Airways.


User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3342 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5251 times:

I experienced my first Transatlantic crossing from BWI with Tower Air on BWI-CDG


There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlineGOCAPS16 From Japan, joined Jan 2000, 4339 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4978 times:



Quoting KGAIflyer (Reply 19):
As well as Ghana Airways.

Yup, that flight seemed to always arrive 6-7 hours late. Operated by a DC-10.

ATA did schedule charter flights from Frankfurt, Germany on weekends.


User currently offlineCityofAthens From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4887 times:

I've operated to BWI a few times and the flight is never particularly busy. We stay right by the harbour, and to be honest I quite like this small part of the city ... I enjoyed the National Aquarium (one of the best I've visited anywhere in the world), the cafes around the harbour and the fact that one can hire a car and drive up to DC or the Udvar-Hazy museum up at IAD.

I didn't know the flight was being subsidised ... what are the benefits to the state of MD and Baltimore itself? To cover BA's costs to the tune of $5.5million, there must be some concrete benefits ...


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32689 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4876 times:

I personally believe that when AA/BA have ATI, AA 75Ls will replace BA's 763s on the BWI-LHR route.


a.
User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4840 times:

Maybe a non-stop flight to London by FR, but I'm not sure if FR is interested in going TATL. A non-stop flight to CDG by AF or DL I think is also a possibility.


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
25 MasseyBrown : International flights are considered a benefit in promoting business for the city of Baltimore and its environs. It's the same reason Raleigh and Pit
26 TheGMan : Interesting. Does this mean the loads to LHR are rather light most days? 767 service, correct?
27 PITrules : Pan Am also served Europe way back (flying boat era). Although it never came about, Maxjet initially planned their operations from BWI, including flig
28 N770WD : The affluent demand wasn't there versus NYC, so when the model switched to affordable C the origin shifted to JFK. BWI has a reasonable leisure base,
29 FI642 : BWI's biggest problem is that they pandered to Southwest, put all of their eggs in one basket, and now have a mess. There is no feed to support Intern
30 MasseyBrown : WN at some point will decide to do international flying themselves. Their business plan requires constant growth to keep unit costs manageable; and,
31 OA412 : For the record I do not know the loads on BWI-LHR but loads are not, in and of themselves, indicative of yield or profit. There have been many flight
32 Post contains links Lawair : Regarding the BA flight: BWI's passenger stats (Nov 07 - Oct 08) are posted here: http://www.bwiairport.com/pdfs/stats/oct2008.pdf#zoom=100 Assuming t
33 Donindc : I beg to differ. Southwest is BWI's greatest asset. They offer approximately 160 flights/day to over 40 destinations, and without gouging the people
34 Profpete : those load factors look pretty decent, I should think BA do quite nicely with this route including the state subsidy. I did the BWI-LHR round trip re
35 AMS : I forgot to mention that LADECO also operated from BWI in 1994 I believe they flew 757's to South America. BWI has been famous for charter flights in
36 Richcandy : Hi I am sure there is lots to do in the Baltimore area but the problem is that most Europeans know nothing about the area and some probably have never
37 777fan : Hmmm, so how do you explain LGW? I think it's safe to say that many Americans see it as a viable alternative to LHR. Given the right circumstances, B
38 BAC111 : Couldn't have said it better. All WN's domestic options and low fares v. a couple of TATL flights? Easy choice.
39 Richcandy : But its not since open sky's CO, NW, DL, AA & US have moved some or all their services to LHR.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Transatlantic Flights- Aircrafts And Airlines posted Tue Jun 24 2008 07:16:36 by AlexEU
AF And BWI Airport posted Tue Nov 8 2005 04:57:28 by AAFLT1871
Delta Business Class On Transatlantic Flights posted Thu Jul 3 2008 15:32:42 by Ben88
YQL Seeks YVR And YYZ Flights posted Mon Apr 21 2008 21:47:16 by CYQL
YYZ: Spotting The Transatlic And India Flights posted Sun Feb 10 2008 21:04:43 by CA228
Website For Scheduled And Charter Flights posted Fri Jan 18 2008 20:31:01 by Phlhnl001
LHR And LGW Flights To BHX 07th Jan posted Sun Jan 6 2008 10:26:13 by Revo
SQ Keen To Launch Transatlantic Flights posted Wed Nov 28 2007 05:44:58 by Revo
SAS To Reduce Transatlantic Flights? posted Fri Sep 28 2007 15:03:55 by Jlarsson
Green Light For BA Transatlantic Flights From Euro posted Tue Aug 21 2007 11:35:18 by Revo