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LH 747-8I Delayed  
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7027 posts, RR: 4
Posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 15498 times:

According to a German Forum LH will get their first 747-8I in the second quarter of 2011 instead of the fourth quarter of 2010 as originally planned.
Reason behind this was said to be the Boeing strike.


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
94 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29674 posts, RR: 84
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 15377 times:
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So about four to six months. The strike was two months. I expect planned production ramps for the 747-400 are also running months late. And then there is the line-conversion time.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21415 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 15236 times:



Quoting Columba (Thread starter):
According to a German Forum LH will get their first 747-8I in the second quarter of 2011 instead of the fourth quarter of 2010 as originally planned.
Reason behind this was said to be the Boeing strike.

Boeing already confirmed that the 748 would be 4-6 months late.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
So about four to six months. The strike was two months.

Double the strike time was the estimate for delays in most new programs.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineJonathan-l From France, joined Mar 2002, 501 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14342 times:

Boeing had confirmed this in a Nov 14 2008 press release:

"Delivery of the first 747-8 Freighter will move from late 2009 to the third quarter of 2010. The first 747-8 Intercontinental passenger jet delivery moves from late 2010 to the second quarter of 2011"


User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2152 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 13951 times:
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Will this cause massive headache for LH or will they simply keep the B744 flying for longer?


Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7027 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 13946 times:



Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 4):
Will this cause massive headache for LH or will they simply keep the B744 flying for longer?

They can fly the 744 a little longer and by 2011 they should have gotten some A380s as well.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 13778 times:

I am quite sure that delay of the 748i, and to a lesser extent of the A380, is paying out quite well for DLH.
to have such aircraft delivered in such bad economical times means a great increase in capacity which needs to be sold and also deliveries also mean heavy investments.



If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
User currently offlineSpeedmarque From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 684 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13745 times:

I think it's a shame that this aircraft seems destined to be a white elephant. Why after so long is there still just one airline customer? That has to say something?

Do we expect more orders once in service?

Or will it be cancelled altogether and be delivered as a freighter?

I love the 747 dearly having worked on it for many many years however I think the plane is dead.

Shame


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10359 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13608 times:



Quoting Speedmarque (Reply 7):
That has to say something?

1. Most airlines do not yet need to replace 744s urgently.
2. Some may wait for experiences with the A380
3. Others may and can wait until the 748F flies and the true values of the 748 become known
3. The economical crisis
4. Anyone heard about a sizable new 77W or A380 order since the crisis began?


User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3945 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13334 times:

Cue the arrival of Keesje any second now and how the LH 748Is won't be built...

R


User currently offlineSpeedmarque From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 684 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13313 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 8):
1. Most airlines do not yet need to replace 744s urgently.
2. Some may wait for experiences with the A380
3. Others may and can wait until the 748F flies and the true values of the 748 become known
3. The economical crisis
4. Anyone heard about a sizable new 77W or A380 order since the crisis began?

1. Then why did Boeing launch the 748?

2. But the two aircraft are not in competition with each other, so why would they do that?

3. (both of them  Wink. OK

4. No, but these aircraft have sizeable orders anyway and backlogs so not in same league

Not wanting to start a silly war of words, just offering my thoughts and opinion which is what this forum is all about.


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10359 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 12981 times:



Quoting Speedmarque (Reply 10):
1. Then why did Boeing launch the 748?

2. But the two aircraft are not in competition with each other, so why would they do that?

3. (both of them  . OK

4. No, but these aircraft have sizeable orders anyway and backlogs so not in same league

Not wanting to start a silly war of words, just offering my thoughts and opinion which is what this forum is all about.

No silly war of words, just my answer:

1. Because the 744 ran out of time, being in production for more than 15 years when the 748 was launched. Also the fine seller 748F is seen as the more important version of the last 747-variant by Boeing.
2. You know that they are, not for LH, but for some of the projected customers (see ANA, which have just postponed the decision between A380 and 748I)
4. But the crisis is why now only the urgent orders are placed, not the ones, which could still be placed by 2011. The small 748I backlog also means that orders can be placed rather shortterm before delivery, something airlines cant do in the case of A330s, A380s, 777s or 787s. I wouldnt be surprised if we rather soon see some cancellations for the latter types (especially A330 and 777)


User currently offlineSpeedmarque From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 684 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 12852 times:

Thanks for answering, however I believe Boeing themselves has stated that the 748 is NOT a competitor to the A388.

Cheers


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10359 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 12714 times:



Quoting Speedmarque (Reply 12):
Thanks for answering, however I believe Boeing themselves has stated that the 748 is NOT a competitor to the A388.

Most a.netters will agree that was just Marketing bla-bla. In some cases (like LH) it might be true, but in most cases airlines apparently (sad fact for us enthusiasts) opt between A380 or 748I when choosing a VLA (and some "poor" 744 operators apparently even dare to add the 77W to this competition).


User currently offlineManfredj From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 12022 times:



Quoting Speedmarque (Reply 7):
I love the 747 dearly having worked on it for many many years however I think the plane is dead.

Shame

Yes, it's a shame you think that, because it's not true. You'll still see the 748 flying for the next 30 years with the German carrier as well as numerous freighters.



757: The last of the best
User currently offlinePlairbus From Germany, joined Feb 2008, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 11511 times:

If the 380 works well for LH and they can gat a good deal from Airbus for more 380 and perhaps Airbus helping out LH with penaltys with Boeing for a cancelation of the 747-800, LH will cancel the 748 for sure!

User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9834 posts, RR: 96
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 11444 times:
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Quoting Speedmarque (Reply 12):
Thanks for answering, however I believe Boeing themselves has stated that the 748 is NOT a competitor to the A388.

I'm not convinced I've seen that anywhere. (If you have a link, I'll stand corrected)

Many a-netters would like to have you think that.

But I would question, if what you say is true, why Boeing persistently and exclusively make comparisons between the 748i (and F) and the A380-800 and (F)  scratchchin 

From what I've seen, Boeing's marketing hype seems to make it quite clear that they most definitely think the 748i IS a direct competitor to the A380.

Rgds


User currently offlineSpeedmarque From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 684 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11162 times:



Quoting Manfredj (Reply 14):
You'll still see the 748 flying for the next 30 years with the German carrier as well as numerous freighters.

Good, but one 748i customer (LH) is hardly says successful aircraft does it?

If you look to my first post you will see I love working the 747 and wil be disappointed if the 748i fails so nobody needs to get defensive about the aircraft.


User currently offlineFRNT787 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1315 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 10800 times:



Quoting Plairbus (Reply 15):
If the 380 works well for LH and they can gat a good deal from Airbus for more 380 and perhaps Airbus helping out LH with penaltys with Boeing for a cancelation of the 747-800, LH will cancel the 748 for sure!

As far as I am concerned, I don't see that happening. LH seems very intent to take the 747-8i into the fleet. It seems to me they will not cancel this order due to a delay of about 4-6 months. It has been quoted here time and again of a senior LH executive (I believe operations, or fleet management, or something of the sort) that they could take up to 50 747-8is (personally I would expect somewhere along the line of 35-40...I think (and hope) they will exercise their full list of options.

LH seems (again, in my opinion) very likely to take this aircraft. I see no circumstance that will cause Boeing to cancel, nor do I see a circumstance where LH will cancel...so lets all get ready to a new generation of 747s in passenger ops...however limited.

I am surprised however how on this forum there are some who dearly hope to see the 747-8i canceled. (Not saying you Plairbus) I was not a member of this forum when the A380 was at this stage but from what I have read, it was the same way. This is an enthusiast website, and as far as I am concerned...I am happy to see Airbus, Boeing, split their orders down the middle, and see all of their products "take flight" (sorry).



"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10629 times:



Quoting Plairbus (Reply 15):
If the 380 works well for LH and they can gat a good deal from Airbus for more 380 and perhaps Airbus helping out LH with penaltys with Boeing for a cancelation of the 747-800, LH will cancel the 748 for sure!

I love the 747 too, having worked / flown on it for a decade.

The 8i is not for free and the cargo market is shrinking / fuel is cheap and $100 million converted 747-400SF's and BCF's start flooding the market, pushed out by A380s.

I think we have to look at the 8i from Boeings position. It could be they have better ways to allocate their engineering resources / money. (777 update, 737 upgrade / replacment, 787-9, 787-10, 773/747 replacement).

Making the 747-8 supply chain / production line dedicated 747-8F would offer serious simplication / cost reduction.

The risk sharing 747-8i supply chain is probably seeing the writing on the wall and asking additional funding from Boeing.

Lufthansa has a new big fleet of A340-600's too and I somehow don't expect Leahy to sit on his hands right now, they are negotiating A380s / A350XWB anyhow.
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...general_aviation/read.main/3854336


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29674 posts, RR: 84
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10529 times:
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LH wants a 747-8 more then any other airline in the world. They want it bad. They've wanted it since the late 1990's and have consistently pushed Boeing to make it, even when the designs Boeing was offering were far worse compared to the the A380 then the 747-8I is. Even though operating an all-Airbus fleet would be simpler and more efficient, they still want that bigger 747.

The only way they will cancel that order is because Boeing won't build it and tells them to pound sand. And after investing the monies they have, Boeing won't cancel it. With 32 orders and MoUs, it may end up being the third-worst selling commercial airliner in history, but Airbus still built 28 A340-200s and Boeing built 30 737-100s, after all.

[Edited 2009-01-06 09:03:42]

User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10408 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 20):
With 32 orders and MoUs, it may end up being the third-worst selling commercial airliner in history, but Airbus still built 28 A340-200s and Boeing built 30 737-100s, after all.

Both used by Lufthansa ? There have been more Concorde, Mercure, VFW 614.. I have the feeling Boeing nor Lufthansa will select to join this list of fame.

Recently Boeing skipped the 787-3 (with 50 orders from key customers) and Lufthansa cancelled the Do728 when business started to look shaky.

At the end of the day Boeing and Lufthansa are survivors, not enthousiasts.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29674 posts, RR: 84
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10370 times:
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Quoting Keesje (Reply 21):
Recently Boeing skipped the 787-3...

They've delayed it. It remains to be seen if it is canceled out-right with no alternative (other then more 763s and 77Es) or an improved version is designed and put into production.



Quoting Keesje (Reply 21):
At the end of the day Boeing and Lufthansa are survivors, not enthusiasts.

Which is why Boeing will build it and LH will take delivery. If LH was just a "fan" of Airbus products, they never would have ordered it, much less pushed Boeing for a decade to make such a plane happen. But since LH has money on the line, they cannot afford to be ruled by emotion, but instead by logic and common sense.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7027 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10344 times:



Quoting Plairbus (Reply 15):
If the 380 works well for LH and they can gat a good deal from Airbus for more 380 and perhaps Airbus helping out LH with penaltys with Boeing for a cancelation of the 747-800, LH will cancel the 748 for sure!

Not going to happen, they want the aircraft for various reasons, its filling the gap between the A346 and the A380, they got a good deal by Boeing, they don´t want to become dependant on Airbus

Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 18):
I believe operations, or fleet management, or something of the sort) that they could take up to 50 747-8is

It was the head of the 747 fleet.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7027 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10296 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 20):
but Airbus still built 28 A340-200s and Boeing built 30 737-100s, after all

or the 767-400 and 757-300 which sold much less copies as the 747-8I/F



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
25 Keesje : The 747-8i is not the 747-8F. Would your company invest in a new cabinproduct development, certification and production line if there are 20 on order
26 Stitch : True, but I prefer to try and just talk about the 747-8I since that is the model some people continue to believe (well, hope, really) will be cancele
27 Plairbus : I know from people in high position in LH because they are friends from my father that they order the 748 for two reason, first they were very angry w
28 Clickhappy : If you hang out in places like Waldo's North or The Lighthouse Saloon you will can hear stories about Boeing not building the 747-8i. These are also t
29 Ikramerica : First, you wouldn't reveal your sources, and if they are hanging around a bar, well, fantastic. I hear a lot of things in bars. Please tell us all th
30 Clickhappy : I think the only rumor I have ever posted here that turned out to be false was that CX was going to be a launch customer for the 747-8i. But that was
31 Post contains images Stitch : Even with the delays in the A380-800, LH would have received them sooner then they could have received 747-8I's, so I find that reasoning a bit...unr
32 Keesje : I think if LH thought in 2006 - the 747-8i fitted nicely inbetween the A340-600 and A380, - Boeing was talking to 20 8i airlines that showed serious i
33 Post contains images Stitch : Where traffic figures around the globe are falling, in some cases precipitously. One of the reasons LH contacted Boeing about bringing back the 747-X
34 WingedMigrator : That should be expected to heat up real good in 2009... Expect the VLA private aircraft to go the way of the Duesenberg. Same clientele. Same market
35 Stitch : When you can afford to own and operate a plane that runs well into nine figures, I don't think the current economic malaise is affecting you since yo
36 Gbfra : This is simply wrong and contradicted by evidence. Lufthansa officials have said various times in public - and I was present at more than one occasio
37 NA : Keesje, most things in your list things still look pretty good in 2009 for the 748I, and they are improving: - the 747-8i fits nicely inbetween the A3
38 Jacobin777 : I think Boeing has a "double standard" here, comparing the B748F to the A380F yet stating the B748I doesn't compete with the A388.... They can't have
39 EPA001 : To me that is the strongest argument in favor of the B747-8i. Personally I am very pleased with LH ordering the A340-600, and the B747-8i and the A38
40 Keesje : Na, not entirely IMO. - the 747-8i fits nicely inbetween the A340-600 and A380, but LH is the only airline seeing it - the GENX offers 15-20% better f
41 Stitch : I really do not believe that EK was serious about the 747-8I - at least to the level LH was. My main belief for this is that Airbus "took advantage"
42 NA : ... for the 777W and A380 as much or as little as for the 748I! The nose section of a 747 is and remains the best place onboard any airliner. They co
43 Post contains links Jacobin777 : I have to respectfully disagree there Stitch. I don't think EK management would be making comments as such.. "Clark says Emirates would consider the
44 Hirnie : LH forced Boeing to build the 737 and they stuck to it, they forced Airbus to build the A340 and stuck to it, they wanted Boeing to build the 747-X (n
45 Stitch : It looks like the A380-800 is fuel volume limited to around 8800nm, at which point it would have a payload of 35t based on the late-2006 figures I ha
46 JMULAH : Didn´t LH want Boeing to make more MD11F´s did it work? NO what makes you think they will wait for the 748i? AFAIK they were very dissapointed with
47 Hirnie : This has nothing to do with loyalties. The thing with the MD 11 was totally different from the situation of the B748i now. Boeing got the MD 11(F) in
48 Nycbjr : why do we always jump to 748 shouldn't exist? or LH/boeing should cancel.. while I love the 777 or A333, it will be nice to see some variety, 4 holers
49 AirNZ : They don't really have a option but to leave it to Airbus........considering that, according to their own statements and releases, the 747 is suddenl
50 Astuteman : I've also seen more comparisons between the 748i and A380-800 from Boeing than I can shake a stick at. I have to say, I've never seen Boeing say the
51 Gbfra : I can remember a presentation by our good old friend Randy Baseler a couple of years ago where he said that the B748 was NOT a competitor to the A380
52 Alessandro : So how many of their pax B744s will be +100 k hrs in 2011?
53 Danfearn77 : DL pushed Boeing to make the 764 didnt they? So cant that be compared to this in a way. Back then Boeing must have made some changes to the 767 produ
54 Burkhard : No. LH does nor want to depend on Airbus only, and the 748i is the best offer Boeing has currently for them. LH does not depend on Airbus money ( but
55 Keesje : Is it? I think that's the big question. The situation is not the same as in 2006, to state it mildly.
56 Stitch : The only other currently-available plane is the 777-300ER and LH just added to their A340-600 fleet. And if LH wants something bigger then the A340-6
57 Keesje : Maybe FEDEX / UPS are interested in LH Cargo's 19 MD11F's.
58 Stitch : Does LH Cargo have to "under-load" their MD-11Fs for range reasons? If so, then the 777F would certainly address that. But if they are not, I'm not s
59 SCAT15F : In hindsight, the 748 program is turning out to be too much investment/airframe change for too little performance/efficiency gain. Boeing would have b
60 Post contains images Stitch : The 747-8I is essentially a re-worked 747-500X. On November 1st, I postulated that Boeing might have seen better success following the 747-400QXLR mo
61 Ikramerica : Well, when the Air Force orders 10 more 748s, that helps the numbers. Producing 1 747 per month, their backlog of remaining 744Fs + 748F + 748i + AF j
62 Gbfra : I have never understood this "dependency theory". As long as an airline is free to choose will an today-all-Airbus airline be able to buy Boeing when
63 PlaneHunter : Examples for these "poor" carriers are...? PH
64 Cerecl : er..one or two I can see, but ten?
65 Alessandro : The US airforce won´t order any aircraft extra aircraft, it´s all about cancelling aircrafts order now, like the V22.
66 Glareskin : Being in (another) business myself I would say these arguments are non-arguments. Boeing is a respectable company that has proven itself and I cannot
67 Columba : Airforce 2 is the call sign for the aircraft of the VP. Also Airforce 1 is not necesarily the 747/VC 25 but could also be a 757/737 or Gulfstram it i
68 Lufthansa411 : From the gossip that has leaked from the program so far, it would seem to me that at this point, whether I originally supported the order or not, it w
69 Columba : Maybe Lufthansa will be the only airline that will have the privilege to be the only airline that operates the same aircraft the US President is flyin
70 Keesje : They have 1 boss & 1 bottom line. He's the man dealing with billions. I think the 747-8F are more capable and will retain value for the next decades,
71 Stitch : If the Airborne Laser AMB program is fully funded to production, the platform used will be the 747-8. That program could easily have up to 10 frames
72 Keesje : Is that so? I have no information. Boeing launched the 8i and got the LH launch order much later. LH all ready got A380 & a346 and young 747-400s. I
73 Post contains images Stitch : I do. I'm bound by an NDA just as I am with the information I have on a shedload of other deals for other airframe types. But seriously, commercial a
74 JayinKitsap : From reading the Tea Leaves department, right now when you go to boeing.com, the first picture is of the stairway of the 748I. If senior mgt had any t
75 Keesje : The picture changes every time you open the page. Sadly you have to do Tea Leaves indeed to get any feeling on progress. For some reason there is a t
76 AirNZ : When have the USAF said they will order 10 748's, and for what?
77 Post contains links WingedMigrator : Airborne Laser
78 Trex8 : I predict now that the ABL program will be a failure and when the rogue nations get their solid propellant missiles it will be superfluous unless the
79 YULWinterSkies : Yeah well, because they are not exactly the same size, it does not automatically means they are not competing against each other. Look at how the 777
80 Astuteman : Economics on the chosen routes will always be the driving factor (as in revenue vs cost) . And range is a factor in that, on long-range routes. I'm p
81 Cerecl : Sorry, I have my doubt on if USAF will purchase brand new 748F for this. It seems to me that used 744F will suffice. Plus, it will not help the 748i.
82 Stitch : For the 747-400F that was used for the YAL-1 flying test platform, did they actually fit a freighter nose (swinging door)? The static test-bed was an
83 Lufthansa411 : I did not say that Boeing was giving the aircraft away, I said that they were most likely steeply discounted. The contract most likely spells out a p
84 Stitch : Almost all commercial airplane orders are steeply discounted. The average discount for a narrowbody approaches 40% off list and for a widebody it app
85 AirNZ : Cheers for that info, and which I found interesting reading. However, when did the USAF state they were ordering 10 748's for this? I can't find any
86 Cerecl : Thanks Stitch for a very informative post
87 Post contains links Legoguy : I don't know if this helps, but looking at this picture off Wiki, it seems that the nose door appears to have been included although weather it was j
88 Stitch : Oh yeah, you can clearly see the line. I am sure it is permanently sealed since the structure holding lasing material would likely not have a break in
89 Post contains links and images Jacobin777 : You are correct..  ....Looking at Airbus' data for the A380, one does see 35-40t @ 8500-9000nm. They stated even a few weeks ago they want the B748
90 Astuteman : Sorry for the misunderstanding, my friend. You are quite correct in your figures for the airframes that have currently been delivered. I was hopefull
91 Jacobin777 : I'm sorry Astuteman. It is me who should be apologising to you. I misinterpreted your comment. It makes complete sense now that I've reread it.. . In
92 Alessandro : Depends on how many VLA (lets include B777 and MD-11s in that equation), that need to be scrapped and of course the fuelprice.
93 GBan : Thanks for sharing - great video indeed!
94 Astuteman : I was, and its fabulous! Many thanks for the link. Awesome! Majestic!. Fantastic camera work! Straight onto my favourites. Rgds
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