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Aeroflot Suspends Toronto  
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4798 posts, RR: 44
Posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 17039 times:

Hi

FYI, all major GDS systems have been updated

All Aeroflight Moscow-Toronto flights to be suspended from March 29th 2009.

They are currently flown 4 times a week using a B 767-300ER.

Rgds
Behramjee

59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHjulicher From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 882 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 16954 times:

Wow, this is major news. It looks like Aeroflot is continually reducing its North American operations, leaving just NYC, LAX, once weekly IAD and HAV. I've heard that YYZ is a very expensive airport to fly to. I think Transaero has taken a lot of their traffic away.

With Aeroflot supposedly receiving 10 A330's in the next 18 months, I wonder what they will do with their fleet. I suppose they are replacing all IL-96 flying, but there is no sign that the 767 fleet will be retired. So they will have a surplus of LH jets.



LH 442
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 16894 times:

Just looked at their Moscow-Los Angeles flight on the 767-300, the flight is 13 hours long. I had no idea the 767 had that kind of range.....

User currently offlineFlyyul From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4994 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 16895 times:

Not surprising. SU's main traffic draw was India traffic, at very low-yields.

The local market Canada - Russia is fairly small, and SVO really isnt much of a transit hub other to India and some secondary Russian points.


User currently offlineFatmirJusufi From Albania, joined Jan 2009, 2441 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 16836 times:

Too bad. But it's not too surprising.


DO FLIGHTS. NOT FIGHTS.
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4798 posts, RR: 44
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 16795 times:



Quoting Flyyul (Reply 3):
Not surprising. SU's main traffic draw was India traffic, at very low-yields.

true bound to DEL largely...same thing with Transaero though from YYZ  Wink


User currently offlineAddd From United States of America, joined May 2007, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 16757 times:



Quoting FatmirJusufi (Reply 4):
Not surprising. SU's main traffic draw was India traffic,

Is that true? Wow, that's interesting... I always thought that SU was not much of a player in North America-India traffice; also, Toronto has the second-largest Russian-speaking community in North America after NYC, so one would would think the O&D alone would be enough to fill the flight... well. apparently not so - Transaero must have soaked in all VFR traffic.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33009 posts, RR: 71
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 16614 times:



Quoting Addd (Reply 6):
Toronto has the second-largest Russian-speaking community in North America after NYC

I'm pretty sure LA is, actually. The Russia-Canada market is surprisingly small.



a.
User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2728 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 16587 times:

Does Air Canada fly to Moscow?

This may be a good opportunity for UA to get in the game!


User currently offlineAddd From United States of America, joined May 2007, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 16500 times:



Quoting United787 (Reply 8):
Does Air Canada fly to Moscow?

This may be a good opportunity for UA to get in the game!

No and no. If anything, it is a gift to Lufthansa.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25626 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 16437 times:



Quoting Addd (Reply 9):
Quoting United787 (Reply 8):
Does Air Canada fly to Moscow?

This may be a good opportunity for UA to get in the game!

No and no. If anything, it is a gift to Lufthansa.

And DME, served by Star Alliance and Oneworld carriers, is a much better airport than SVO, served by SU and SkyTeam carriers. I expect business travellers, among others, are now aware of that and are avoiding SU in favor of carriers serving DME.


User currently offlineAddd From United States of America, joined May 2007, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 16396 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
And DME, served by Star Alliance and Oneworld carriers, is a much better airport than SVO, served by SU and SkyTeam carriers. I expect business travellers, among others, are now aware of that and are avoiding SU in favor of carriers serving DME.

True, but, in fairness to SU, with SVO's brand new Terminal A (to be used by all SkyTeam members) coming online later this year, their passenger service in Mowcow is bound to improve dramatically... the airport has already made some crucial steps, not last of which is direct rail connection to the city center (which, incredibly, SVO never had).


User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2473 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 16334 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

LOL I looked at SU website and on their destination map, they have Toronto in the NE suburbs of Detroit.


"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineAddd From United States of America, joined May 2007, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 16323 times:



Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 12):
they have Toronto in the NE suburbs of Detroit.

... which is precisely where Toronto is, if you ask me Smile


User currently offlineHjulicher From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 882 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 16312 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
And DME, served by Star Alliance and Oneworld carriers, is a much better airport than SVO, served by SU and SkyTeam carriers. I expect business travellers, among others, are now aware of that and are avoiding SU in favor of carriers serving DME.

Actually, like always there are some problems with the new Terminal. It is scheduled to open March 31 for domestic flights only, and then later in the year for international flights. I think international flights will use the same set-up for non-schengen countries when arriving in MUC (the two leveled gate system which funnels passengers up or down when arriving from abroad).

Also AirFrance wants to appartently stay in SVO-2 which is causing delays because apparently they have first choice when it comes to the space they will be renting in Aeroflot's Terminal 3. So until AF gets what they want (lower rents) they will not confirm anything, thus delaying the move for the other airlines that are supposed to be in the new terminal. So much for Skyteam cooperation.

Anyways MASH (the name for the airport owner Mejzdunarodniy Aeroport Sheremetyevo) is in discussions right now, and work by Hochtief on the new connection Terminal 2B is well underway, and should greatly increase space in the terminal. Supposedly an improved Duty Free area will be built, and some airlines will be moved to the new expansion area.

Also, the new direct rail system from SVO to downtown Moscow will take only 35 minutes and will be soon changed to Belorusskaya Station.

Lot's of Changes!



LH 442
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39905 posts, RR: 75
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 16181 times:

What ever happened to Aeroflot's IL-96 orders?


Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineKevin From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 1145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 16089 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
I'm pretty sure LA is, actually. The Russia-Canada market is surprisingly small.

It is not small. You are talking about Toronto - Russia market in this case. I mean Toronto does have the largest Russian community in Canada, but say you live in Calgary or Vancouver. You won't fly to Toronto just to catch the Aeroflot flight to SVO. It would be much easier and much cheaper for you to go with BA or LH.


User currently offlineSflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 16058 times:

Maybe SU should give MIA a try. Don't know what the MIA-SVO numbers are, but I has been said on this forum that SVO is a missing destination from MIA. Between business and tourism, SU should be able to fill a plane several times a week. Just a thought. Anyone got the numbers?

User currently offlineHjulicher From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 882 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 16047 times:

Aeroflot used to operate a flight to MIA, and in fact, is probably still a huge possibility. I think they had limited aircraft at the time, and perhaps with the rising wealth of Russians this flight will do well, however, the weakened economy is going to be difficult on Aeroflot this year, although they have been earning profits year in and year out since their rebranding.


LH 442
User currently offlineRP TPA From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15879 times:



Quoting Flyyul (Reply 3):
Not surprising. SU's main traffic draw was India traffic, at very low-yields.

The local market Canada - Russia is fairly small, and SVO really isnt much of a transit hub other to India and some secondary Russian points

I seem to recall some sort of disagreement a few years ago between Canada and Russia regarding traffic to India. I can't remember the exact details, but it had resulted in Russia not providing overfly rights to Air Canada for their Delhi flight. Something about AC taking traffic away from Aeroflot. Perhaps someone else can fill in the blanks.


User currently offlineAfay1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1293 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15860 times:

Sheremetyevo has sworn to god every year since 1993 that the fabled international Terminal 3 would open...and each year gives reasons why, no really, totally 1997 it's gonna happen. Yet...we hoped for better, but it turned out like always. I will, although the SVO "direct" train to the city crashed on the first day and continues to hit the platform and not run on schedule, JFK's killed somebody the first run so SVO wins there....

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25626 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15806 times:



Quoting RP TPA (Reply 19):
I seem to recall some sort of disagreement a few years ago between Canada and Russia regarding traffic to India. I can't remember the exact details, but it had resulted in Russia not providing overfly rights to Air Canada for their Delhi flight. Something about AC taking traffic away from Aeroflot. Perhaps someone else can fill in the blanks.

Yes, Russia prohibited AC from overflying Russia on their new route to DEL in 2003. In retaliation, the Canadian government forced Aeroflot to cut their frequency SVO-YYZ from 4 to 2 flights a week effective in November 2003 and banned all other Aeroflot flights (and any other Russian airlines) from Canadian airspace. That forced SU to reroute their US flights adding several hours to the flight time on some routes, e.g. SVO-LAX. They settled the dispute a few weeks later.

Following is the text of the NOTAM issued to implement the ban on Russian flights through Canadian airspace:

PURSUANT TO SECTION 601.18 OF THE CANADIAN AVIATION REGULATIONS, BY MINISTERIAL ORDER, CANADIAN SOVEREIGN AIRSPACE ABOVE THE LAND AREAS AND THE TERRITORIAL WATERS OF CANADA, SFC TO FL600 IS RESTRICTED AS FOLLOWS: RUSSIAN AIR CARRIERS, INCLUDING AEROFLOT, ARE PROHIBITED FROM OVERFLIGHTS OF CANADA WITHIN THIS AIRSPACE. THE FOLLOWING EXCEPTIONS APPLY: ONE AEROFLOT FLIGHT OPERATING TO AND FROM TORONTO LESTER B. PEARSON INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT EVERY MONDAY AND ONE EVERY WEDNESDAY. TIL 0311302359


User currently offlineWestJetYQQ From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2987 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 15348 times:



Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 1):
I've heard that YYZ is a very expensive airport to fly to

Tokyo Narita was the most expensive airport in the world to land at until Toronto Pearson claimed that position in 2006.

Cheers
Carson



Will You Try to Change Things? Use the Power that you have, the Power of a Million new Ideas.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33009 posts, RR: 71
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 15343 times:



Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 17):
Maybe SU should give MIA a try. Don't know what the MIA-SVO numbers are, but I has been said on this forum that SVO is a missing destination from MIA. Between business and tourism, SU should be able to fill a plane several times a week. Just a thought. Anyone got the numbers?

No airline will launch MIA-MOW in this economy, though last year when Aeroflot's CEO was asked why they don't to fly to Miami, his answer was "a few years ago the answer would have been yields. Now the answer is we don't have enough planes." Though that was a year ago, things have changed, and the U.S.-Russia market is really struggling. United has delayed DME; AA's DME service is a weak performer; SQ's IAH-DME service is probably on its deathbed; and Transaero has put MIA and NYC on hold.



a.
User currently offlineTacoronte From United States of America, joined May 2008, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 15286 times:



Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 1):
once weekly IAD and HAV

HAV is served 2x per week and 3x seasonal, check their timetable.

Im really surprised Aeroflot is ending Toronto, I always thought Toronto was one of their strongest destinations in North America.


25 28L28L : Does anyone know when Aeroflot first began serving Los Angeles?
26 Voyager747 : Where is this information coming from? What is the source?I know people that work at YYZ and they have not told me anything about this.I would like to
27 MAH4546 : The source is in the original post: GDS. The flight is discontinued.
28 Post contains links Thenoflyzone : http://www.aeroflot.ru Timetables have no flights after March 28. Last SVO-YYZ on March 27, last YYZ-SVO lands in Russia on the morning of the 28th.
29 Directorguy : What I'm surprised about is the lack of presence for SU at DXB. Currently, EK serves DME daily using a 773 with SQ flying DXB-DME a few times a week.
30 Kevin : That, plus Transaero is serving DXB from DME quite frequently if I am not mistaken with a 747-400. Too many seats to fill in this sluggish economy. R
31 JohnClipper : I remember when SU used to fly IL-62s into MIA via SNN. If I remember correctly, sometimes the flights continued to HAV.
32 Directorguy : Hmm...not to mention the other charters that fly not only to DXB but SHJ as well. I wonder what the frequency was, since DXB doesn't seem to be a sch
33 MAH4546 : Never continued to HAV, that would be illegal. At one point - around 1994 -Aeroflot was planning MIA-SCL, MIA-MGA and MIA-LIM, but was never approved
34 Gkirk : Thought you would have said MIA there
35 Irobertson : Aeroflot does fly into Dubai using A320s. I priced out an Aeroflot trip from Toronto-Moscow-Dubai two months ago when I was headed to Dubai over Chri
36 Pnwtraveler : I know a couple of Russian businessmen who have a jewelry manufacturing business in China and import their product into Canada. They won't fly Aeroflo
37 UPPERDECKFAN : If Aeroflot CEO can complain about yields to a place like MIA then one can just wonder about the kind of yields they get on SVO-HAV Almost 20 years h
38 LongHauler : YYZ-SVO is easily possible with the present B767-300s. Through Star Alliance partners, it is well known exactly what the passenger demand would be an
39 Thenoflyzone : I would bet that the belly of that 767 operating SU 333 is quite full on the way to HAV, and on the way back (one can argue it's full of cuban cigars
40 Irobertson : Not to mention parts to fix Russian airliners still operating down there. With Conviasa supposedly jumping on the IL-96 bandwagon, you could see a sm
41 Konrad : I wouldn't be surprised to see LOT dropping YYZ as well. Traffic on WAW-YYZ is very seasonal, varying from daily 763 service in summer to flights 3 pe
42 Luckyone : Having just been to SVO in July I can avouch that the terminal is indeed there........ This is no different than T5 at LHR being delayed.
43 Phoenix9 : The only reason Aeroflot was popular with Indian population in Toronto was due to their cheap fares. A return economy ticket for YYZ-DEL was never mor
44 UPPERDECKFAN : Good point. Cargo is part of the equation for AF but pax service is too, AF send their 744 to HAV because it's their high density a/c (2-class with v
45 Post contains links Viscount724 : AC started their once-weekly service to Moscow on November 1,1966. Pan Am became the 2nd North American carrier to the Soviet Union in July 1968 when
46 LongHauler : AC served Moscow a lot longer than most people realize. The flight was finally removed from the schedule in the early Spring of 1977, after almost 11
47 Heathrow : WOW!!!! I can't say I'll miss it personally, I was never a huge fan of SU, but it'll be strange to see them go. It's funny, I didn't even know UN unti
48 Hirnie : It's not only cargo. I've been to Cuba some times and there are always a lot of Russians around. Cuba traditionally is a well visited country by Russ
49 Hjulicher : There are different sentiments between Russian emigres now living in Canada and the US, and Russian citizens visting from Russia. Emigres remember th
50 JAL : Shame, they decided to leave the Toronto!
51 Krisyyz : agreed. LO may very well reduce or suspend its YYZ operations. MA has stopped flying to YYZ. OK has gone seasonal and may stop flights to YYZ after t
52 FLYYUL : We are going to see the absolute domination by the big 3 Euro carriers, and their subsidiaries. Soon Canada will be run by AC/LH/BA/AF - and we will s
53 Thenoflyzone : Wishful thinking ! TS starts new routes as they get other A310's from airlines like TAP. They are already starting new flights next summer from YYZ t
54 Pylon101 : 1. Not so many English native speakers realize that what they used to consider “Russian speaking community” in Toronto consists of several ethnic
55 FLYYUL : TS has indicated that it would like to serve Prague. They however found that Prague is a good inbound market, but poor outbound market (not many Czech
56 Post contains images Thenoflyzone : There's going to be some shortage of feta cheese, goulash, Absinthe and good ole' Russian Vodka in Canada in the coming years..! (ok, maybe not Absin
57 Pnwtraveler : Good point of the ethnic differences the Toronto area from the area that was the former USSR. I had an office in the area called Bloor West Village. A
58 Bmacleod : I see a possible gain for AC notably it's codesharing flights with LH. However the small size of the Russia-Canada market would dimish this opportunit
59 Voyager747 : I spoke to my friends at YYZ and it is true they will stop flights after the 29th of march.And I was hoping to see their new 330 here at YYZ. Are they
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