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Massive NW/DL NRT Route Changes Summer '09  
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3205 posts, RR: 13
Posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 17182 times:

Hey all,

Well, I don't think there is any official announcement yet, but I've found a ton of route adjustments and fleet type swaps for the NRT hub for summer '09 using PARS. Again, not official, but I'm pretty sure this is what is going to happen:


NRT-PEK: A332 to A332
NRT-PVG: 744 to A332
NRT-HKG: 744 to A333
NRT-MNL: 744 to 744
NRT-SIN: A332 to A332
NRT-BKK: A333 to 757
NRT-PUS: 757 to 757
NRT-ICN: A332 to 757
NRT-TPE: 757 to 757
NRT-GUM: A333 and 757 to A333 and 757
NRT-SPN: A333 and 757 to A333 and 757
NRT-HNL: 744 and A333 to 744 and A333
NRT-NGO: 757 to 757
NRT-KIX: 757 to 757


The thing that struck me the most was the downgauge on NRT-BKK from A333 to 757. What's up with that??

And secondly, it looks like they are trying to free up a lot of 744's - I would guess for nonstop routes as they will now have very few flights out of the NRT hub - almost all A330, 767, and 757 now (or will become).


In addition to that, PARS is also saying the following changes will take place in the NW schedule:

JFK-NRT: 777 to 777
ATL-NRT: daily 777 to daily 744 and 4x weekly 777
DTW-NRT: 2x 744 to 2x 744
MSP-NRT: 744 to 744
SEA-NRT: A332 to A332
PDX-NRT: A332 to 763
SFO-NRT: A332 to A332
LAX-NRT: 744 to 1x A332 and 1x 763


That's all I've been able to find for now. If anyone else knows anything further, please do share.



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140 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22911 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 17119 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Thread starter):
And secondly, it looks like they are trying to free up a lot of 744's - I would guess for nonstop routes as they will now have very few flights out of the NRT hub

The 744 for ATL-NRT needs to come from somewhere, as do the 744s for any other upgrades ex-JFK or ATL.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3205 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16984 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Thread starter):
NRT-BKK: A333 to 757

This is actually:

A333 to 2x 757



I tried to edit but it gave me the bit about "tags not allowed"  Yeah sure


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9335 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16930 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Thread starter):
MSP-NRT: 744 to 744
SEA-NRT: A332 to A332

Also needs to be noted
The MSP-NRT will go from 8x weekly to 7x and SEA-NRT will go from 10x weekly to 7x weekly.

Quoting Transpac787 (Thread starter):
LAX-NRT: 744 to 1x A332 and 1x 763

Well I said in the T5 thread it wont become 763....look like I was kinda right.....2x daily is a bit of a shocker. I believe this will also help with how they will get the 763 to LAX-GRU as ATL and JFK-GRU will go 764

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):
The 744 for ATL-NRT needs to come from somewhere, as do the 744s for any other upgrades ex-JFK or ATL.

don't for get ATL-HNL will go 744 also.

Quoting Transpac787 (Thread starter):
NRT-PVG: 744 to A332

No shocker this should help ATL-PVG (4x weekly 777) and DYW-PVG (4x weekly 744)

Quoting Transpac787 (Thread starter):
NRT-ICN: A332 to 757

I guess they will move more PAX via KE

Quoting Transpac787 (Thread starter):
NRT-BKK: A333 to 757

Whoa.........shocker I thought BKK was doing great

Quoting Transpac787 (Thread starter):
NRT-HNL: 744 and A333 to 744 and A333

I thought DL asked to run 1x 763 on this route

Quoting Transpac787 (Thread starter):
NRT-GUM: A333 and 757 to A333 and 757

same for above.

Thanks for the info Matt.... what time frame are we looking at for the chnges.



yep.
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3205 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16846 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3):
Whoa.........shocker I thought BKK was doing great

I was too until I saw a 2nd 757, so it is actually 1x A333 to 2x 757

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3):
I thought DL asked to run 1x 763 on this route

MSP-HNL-NRT is how NW positions the A333's to NRT. Since NW/DL seem to still intend on running the A333's out of NRT (HKG, GUM, SPN) they will need the positioning flight via HNL since the NW85/86 3x weekly service of SEA-NRT is no-longer.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3):
same for above.

It's possible, but nothing in the schedules reflects this so far, it still shows A333 while the other routes (PDX-NRT, PDX-AMS) all show a 763 as being loaded.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22911 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16847 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3):
don't for get ATL-HNL will go 744 also.

 checkmark Because of the 2-ocean rule, I wouldn't look for too much more 744 flying from ATL in the near future... GRU is about the only other possibility I see, and that wouldn't be until next winter.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSean-SAN- From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 769 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16809 times:

Seems like some odd choices.

757 NRT crews are deadheaded in from US bases (in business class, and being paid), it's not the most desirable setup.

LAX-NRT is always completely full, and often overbooked 30-60 pax daily. If anything, it could be double daily 332.

NRT-ICN is also usually full and usually a good yield. I can't imagine many people would choose NW anymore when KE offers nonstop service from many US cities.


User currently offlineHjulicher From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 872 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16744 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):
The 744 for ATL-NRT needs to come from somewhere

This flight came from the cancellation of DTW-KIX.

People have been saying that DL flying to LHR will be on 764's? Is the also true for the DTW hub? I've only heard 763.



LH 442
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7562 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16746 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3):
don't for get ATL-HNL will go 744 also.

I think this is going to be a mistake. That 744 could be better used on another route.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9335 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16744 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Thread starter):
And secondly, it looks like they are trying to free up a lot of 744's -

yea i wounder what Glen is going to do with them. We will likely see a more lacked year for the big planes at NW so they can get them in and out of paint. I think they have to paint something like 2-3 planes a day to make the deadline they want.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 2):
This is actually:

A333 to 2x 757

Which is pretty good drop in seats. My question is where in the HELL is Delta getting all these NRT slots from. NW had 26x daily and 3x weekly with crago slots. DL had one. With all of this they are at 28 daily 4 weekly so where did they get the 1.1 slot from?

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
Because of the 2-ocean rule, I wouldn't look for too much more 744 flying from ATL in the near future... GRU is about the only other possibility I see, and that wouldn't be until next winter.

then they are going to have ALOT of parked 744s laying around. I'd say now NRT need 5 mayb 6 of the 16 744s......DTW-NGO is 2 more and PVG is two more. So that leaves 6-7 744s that will just sit. Don't see this happening. I'd say ATL-LHR and ATL-GRU have a very good chance. (well with JFK-GRU going 764 and LAX-GRU starting maybe not)



yep.
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3205 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16637 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
Because of the 2-ocean rule, I wouldn't look for too much more 744 flying from ATL in the near future...

The NW 744 crews have tentatively agreed to temporarily waive the 2-ocean rule in the contract until the SOC is obtained and there is much greater flexibility with crew and aircraft basing.

Most likely crews would be dead-headed DTW-ATL, but if necessary the 744 chief pilot claims that the 744 pilot group has agreed to waive the rule until the SOC.

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 6):
(in business class, and being paid)

Not completely true.

Only on flights of duration 12:01 and longer are pilots contractually guaranteed business class for the 757 crews. So, if the 757 crews are being DH'd from DTW, then they always get J-class. But, if they are MSP 757 crews, the MSP-NRT is shorter than 12:00 blocktime during some parts of the year. I believe this will change with the DL contract though, that any transoceanic deadhead is mandatory business class.

Also, 757 crews are only paid 3/4 time for the deadhead portion of the trips.

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 6):
it's not the most desirable setup.

Right now it is not at all. However, upon integration of the pilot groups with the SOC, it will be an *excellent* setup as the 767 crews operating the LAX-NRT and PDX-NRT flights can then operate all the "south routes" on the 757.

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 6):
If anything, it could be double daily 332.

Yes, but the lack of A332's (only 11x in the fleet) wouldn't allow it. As reply 9 mentioned, NRT-LAX may be a good positioning flight for the LAX-GRU, though most likely there will be another ATL-LAX domestic tag for an internationally-configured 763.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 9):
My question is where in the HELL is Delta getting all these NRT slots from.

No need. The 757's can use NRT runways 34R/16L, which have a whole different slot system than the widebody-critical runway 34L/16R. NW has used 757's to "slot-squat" in the past, otherwise they can use the far shorter runway which is far less slot-restricted than the longer widebody runway.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9335 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16592 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 8):

I think this is going to be a mistake. That 744 could be better used on another route.

I understand it. They use the 744 that would sit in Atlanta all day and free up 2 764s. HNL will likely become an all 763 spoke becuase SLC-HNL will likely go from 764 to 763.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 10):
No need. The 757's can use NRT runways 34R/16L, which have a whole different slot system than the widebody-critical runway 34L/16R. NW has used 757's to "slot-squat" in the past, otherwise they can use the far shorter runway which is far less slot-restricted than the longer widebody runway.

Ok that confusing......so how many slots is NW/DL using?



yep.
User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16587 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 8):
I think this is going to be a mistake. That 744 could be better used on another route.

I don't. Although the 744's range could be put to good use, ATL-HNL is in need of this aircraft. The route is packed, day in and day out, in all classes.

The BKK case makes me wonder.... Can a 777LR make ATL-BKK profitably?



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2446 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16556 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 9):
then they are going to have ALOT of parked 744s laying around

Isn't one 744 routed to AMS? Not sure how DTW AMS looks like S09?

Thanks,
PW100



Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9335 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16537 times:



Quoting PW100 (Reply 13):
Isn't one 744 routed to AMS? Not sure how DTW AMS looks like S09?

NW use to do it in the summer but I don't think its comeing back........Matt can you look this up and see?



yep.
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4898 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16538 times:
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Quoting Transpac787 (Thread starter):

NRT-GUM: A333 and 757 to A333 and 757
NRT-HNL: 744 and A333 to 744 and A333



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 8):
I think this is going to be a mistake. That 744 could be better used on another route.

Don't think these are quite set yet...NRT-GUM, HNL, PDX are supposed to be operated by the DL 763ERs (DL applied to the DOT for authority transfers but don't know if they've been approved yet; if not, may explain why schedules still show the existing equipment).

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3):
Quoting Transpac787 (Thread starter):
NRT-ICN: A332 to 757

I guess they will move more PAX via KE

More likely to also accomodate the DL nonstop ICN-ATL since that usually increases in frequency for the summer...


User currently offlineFFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 733 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16509 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 9):
Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 2):
This is actually:

A333 to 2x 757

Which is pretty good drop in seats.

In my mind the total is about the same. What are the exact configurations in this case?


User currently offlineVTBDflyer From Thailand, joined Aug 2006, 378 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 16484 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Thread starter):
The thing that struck me the most was the downgauge on NRT-BKK from A333 to 757. What's up with that??



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 2):
his is actually:

A333 to 2x 757

I tried to edit but it gave me the bit about "tags not allowed"

I'm thinking that this may not be such a good idea. I'm currently scheduled to fly NW from MKE to BKK in March and was shocked to see a 757. But I still don't see the second flight on the schedule.

VTBD



Fly Thai
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8337 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 16437 times:
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Quoting Transpac787 (Thread starter):
JFK-NRT: 777 to 777
ATL-NRT: daily 777 to daily 744 and 4x weekly 777
DTW-NRT: 2x 744 to 2x 744
MSP-NRT: 744 to 744
SEA-NRT: A332 to A332
PDX-NRT: A332 to 763
SFO-NRT: A332 to A332
LAX-NRT: 744 to 1x A332 and 1x 763

Did someone actually say a 767 from LAX to NRT ? What are they thinking, if a 767 from LAX to NRT was such a good idea why wouldn't another airline don't by now. NRT is a 777, A330 and 744 destination, the 767 must be the idea of a Georgia Good 'ole boy.


User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3205 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 16438 times:



Quoting Evan767 (Reply 12):
The BKK case makes me wonder.... Can a 777LR make ATL-BKK profitably?

The plane could do it, but that would be pushing the limits of even the glorious 772LR. You'd probably be looking at a blocktime of north of 19 hours on at least one of the legs, as it's a good 600 miles longer than even ATL-BOM.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 14):
Matt can you look this up and see?

NW68/69, the DTW-AMS 744 route, is now set to be an A333 even over the summer.

Quoting Panamair (Reply 15):
More likely to also accomodate the DL nonstop ICN-ATL since that usually increases in frequency for the summer...

Yes, as well as capacity increase by KE.

Quoting FFlyer (Reply 16):
In my mind the total is about the same. What are the exact configurations in this case?

They are shown as being operated with 2x 75A's (16J/144Y configuration) as opposed to the 75X, which is 20J/162Y configuration.

A333 = 34J/264Y
2x 75A = 32J/288Y

Quoting VTBDflyer (Reply 17):
But I still don't see the second flight on the schedule.

Subject to government approval as most likely it would use one of NW's precious few rights to originate flights in Japan with no US-tag on.


User currently offlineVTBDflyer From Thailand, joined Aug 2006, 378 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 16386 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 19):
Subject to government approval as most likely it would use one of NW's precious few rights to originate flights in Japan with no US-tag on.

Got it, makes sense.

VTBD



Fly Thai
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9335 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 16385 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 19):


The plane could do it, but that would be pushing the limits of even the glorious 772LR. You'd probably be looking at a blocktime of north of 19 hours on at least one of the legs, as it's a good 600 miles longer than even ATL-BOM.

It would be close but its more likely that it'd be via the west coast (LAX) with same plane ATL-LAX-BKK-LAX-ATL (77L)

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 19):
NW68/69, the DTW-AMS 744 route, is now set to be an A333 even over the summer.

so we are looking at what 6-7 free 744s in the summer?



yep.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 16371 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 9):
Which is pretty good drop in seats.



Quoting FFlyer (Reply 16):
In my mind the total is about the same

2x 757s is a few more seats than 1 A333, and offers better schedule flexibility.

NS


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7562 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 16373 times:



Quoting Evan767 (Reply 12):
The BKK case makes me wonder.... Can a 777LR make ATL-BKK profitably?

No. ATL-BKK is not a route that could be operated profitably with anything.

TG struggles greatly to operate LAX-BKK profitably. JFK-BKK flopped. ATL has absolutely zero local market to BKK as does the rest of that part of the country.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 12):
The route is packed, day in and day out, in all classes.

I have absolutely no doubt that it is, however I just wonder if it would be better used on say ATL-GRU or ATL-Some where in Europe. Hawaii is typically pretty low yielding even though theres lots of traffic. I know AA's DFW-HNL and DFW-OGG flights go out packed in all classes each way, but they dont make an arm and a leg on them.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 11):
They use the 744 that would sit in Atlanta all day and free up 2 764s. HNL will likely become an all 763 spoke becuase SLC-HNL will likely go from 764 to 763.

Fair enough. I see your point. Well just see how it turns out.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5935 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 16326 times:

Is NRT-SLC still stalted to operate with the 332?


Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
25 DeltaL1011man : yes 5x weekly.....starting in june IIRC I think it came down to "what do we need more? a 744 or 2x 764s" and they went with the 2 764s.
26 Transpac787 : As best as I can tell, yes. 1) DTW-NRT-MNL 2) MNL-NRT-DTW 3) DTW-NRT-HNL 4) HNL-NRT-DTW 5) DTW-NGO-MNL 6) MNL-NGO-DTW 7) DTW-PVG 8) PVG-DTW 9) NRT-AT
27 Iloveboeing : I think they also need some of the 744s to be temporarily out of service so they can repaint and upgrade them. It is imperative that DL upgrade the 7
28 Transpac787 : Knew I'd forget something..... 11) MSP-NRT 12) NRT-MSP
29 RwSEA : I'm interested to see how this will affect connecting traffic on the domestic side. It looks like many of these aircraft will now be turning right ba
30 Cubsrule : London isn't exactly a gold star in anyone's TATL network lately. I don't know that ATL-LHR would be a good choice for the 744. I do think that GRU c
31 DeltaL1011man : 7) SEA-AMS 8) AMS-SEA 9)? 10)?
32 Evan767 : Great stereotype. As typical in Asia, many airlines operate medium-haul routes with excessively large aircraft, including EK, SQ, KE, etc. This is mo
33 Transpac787 : Sorry, I was just doing the NRT flights. As for all 11x birds, I would *guess* they will rotate A332's to JFK via AMS, so they can use them on the JF
34 Panamair : Frankly, BKK is pretty low (if at all) on the priority list for any nonstop flights from the U.S. Yields are not great, and as mentioned by others, T
35 WorldTraveler : The 757 has a common cockpit with the 763ER which will fly transpac routes. It is possible that DL could swap out the 757s at NRT for DL a/c so its p
36 Gigneil : I'm wondering when DL is going to do something more than NRT Westwards from SLC - in fact, I remain surprised that SYD is not from SLC. They could op
37 MaverickM11 : What's the 2x BKKNRT schedule? Are they going to have wingtips or two legs that don't connect to anything?
38 Hjulicher : Why would you want to spark this discussion. The moment it would get off the ground the mods would come in and either delete the post or block it. I
39 Gigneil : I am not sure what the schedule is, just that flying 2 planes is more flexible than flying one... I am sure both will connect onwards... not allll th
40 Gigneil : At LAX, they have their Star Alliance partner United, which is FAR from trivial feed. I bet that Thai could make a go of BKK-EWR after CO joins, and
41 DeltaL1011man : Yes I agree if it happend it would likely be from LA but I think this is why UA keeps SIN and BKK via NRT (and HKG for SIN) I'm not SLC market is ver
42 EXAAUADL : The above are surprising especially since DL wont be serving HKG from the USA like UA does. They will be spilling some traffic to UA or AA/JL At UA N
43 Gigneil : Sure, but compared to what DL can capture at LAX with practically no feed? NS
44 MaverickM11 : You may not necessarily want to carry them and their kitchen sink unless they're paying their way. That's the biggest problem with those economy flow
45 Hjulicher : SLC is the CVG of the west, and is in great location but a very small local market. SLC is extremely lucky to be getting it's CDG and NRT flights, an
46 DeltaL1011man : If theyt did it at LA they would have to add feed(and not ERJs, 737/757 this time) LAX-SYD has the O/D to make it work with out feed same for NRT(plu
47 RwSEA : If I were running DL (and I'm not, so don't flame), I'd drop ATL-ICN and start DTW-ICN. Now that DL has an NRT hub, they can handle more of the traff
48 LAXdude1023 : Regurdless, ATL-BKK isnt a route that could/would work. I think you know this though. Panamair says it all: But do you think that BKK nonstop from th
49 Klkla : While not exactly "crying out" I would think Rome would be a good DL 744 destination during the summer. Also, Tel Aviv might work (yes I know it's no
50 DeltaL1011man : I agree. I agree.......but maybe not on a DL a/c. I think KE very well could start DTW-ICN Should drop PVG to? the whole point of DL putting a 75 on
51 Evan767 : Isn't that what a forum is all about? If what you say were to be true, this forum would certainly be a very ill-managed one.
52 WorldTraveler : DL is not through w/ HKG but this is clearly not the year to expand there. See the discussion about CX's reduction in premium traffic. DL won't spill
53 RwSEA : I think a daily DTW-PVG makes more sense than a 4x weekly ATL/DTW-PVG. Like it or not, DTW is in a better position to capture more traffic from the m
54 Gigneil : If its 2x 757, then again, they're getting 23 more coach seats and 8 more WBC seats per day... NS
55 DeltaL1011man : It comes very close in the summer. DL is (most of the time) 5-6x weekly 777 while KE is 7x weekly 744. I didn't say DTW cant support ICN I did say AT
56 LipeGIG : Agree, they probably can wait till winter 2009/2010 to upgrade ATL-GRU.
57 Mayor : I think you could consider those that are skiing in Utah as a "local market". Well, duh....doesn't that kind of describe ANY hub?
58 DeltaL1011man : Its only 1x 752.......look like KE will add some more seats into the market. droping 12C seats and 49Y seats if they are using a 75X
59 PSU.DTW.SCE : NW has a significant amount of their 744 maintenance performed in MNL, hence why it will continue to see the 744. The drop in frequency of SEA-NRT is
60 PHXtoDCAtoMSP : I can see everything else. But not these. LAXNRT only appears to be 1x 332 and no 763. Could this be a one-stop LAX-HNL-NRT routing you are seeing? D
61 DeltaL1011man : Going 2x daily with 1x 763 and 1x 332 is adding seats into the market. Could it be that the 763 LAX-NRT be pending gov. because its a new DL route, a
62 PHXtoDCAtoMSP : It was meant to read like "not seeing this in PARS"....not like I don't "see" this happening in my opinion. If it isn't put in yet, then Transpac787
63 EXAAUADL : doubt it. The spilled traffic will just go on UA.
64 Gigneil : No. It will definitely carry cargo restrictions, and possibly passenger, on many days. NS
65 DTWAGENT : So on what routes is DL/NW going to use the extra B744's on? Someone in hear said they have about 6 or 7 aircraft that will be sitting around. And we
66 EXAAUADL : cargo is huge on LAX-NRT, I cant believe DL is doing this
67 Dispatchguy : I dont think that with the SLC field elevation you can get the required performance to make a SLCSYD flight nonstop. In fact, I would highly doubt yo
68 Panamair : Cargo is not huge anymore in most markets these days...UA and AA each reported drops of 25-32% in cargo ton miles for December 2008, for example.
69 DeltaL1011man : might have to leave some cargo behine but a 763 with winglets should be able to make it. read below for why/how Oh ok my bad LOL.....I assume it woul
70 PanAm788 : What about the 787? Its coming (hopefully) in the fall to DL. What will be its role? And from reading this very confusing thread, I'm getting th impre
71 Gigneil : With winglets a 763 would still go with no cargo. NS
72 DeltaL1011man : they carry it to and from LOS so why would this not be the same? Like I said LOS might be a longer flight than NRT.
73 Gigneil : North Pacific winds and different ETOPS concerns come to mind. LOS is a longer flight than NRT, by over 300nm. But the conditions are different across
74 PSU.DTW.SCE : Cargo on LAX-NRT may not be a huge concern since NWA Cargo flies scheduled 742F service out of LAX to/from Asia via ANC. Cargo that can't be carried o
75 Gigneil : That is a pretty good point. NS
76 WorldTraveler : the maintenance is done because the planes are there. If the deal is still that good, then it is worth flying planes there regardless of where there
77 Cubsrule : In many cases, they fly empty planes all the way from the US. With 744s already flying to Asia, the cost of getting the planes to MNL would be lower
78 Flighty : Does anybody think DL might acquire additional 744? It seems unlikely but I am just asking.
79 OA412 : I doubt it. I'd bet that they'll opt to replace the 744's with the 77W in due time.
80 NWADC9 : Then what's the NRT base for?
81 Gigneil : Flight attendants. NS
82 Transpac787 : A 764 most certainly cannot easily fly 12 hours. Even a 763 has a difficult time at it. Look at the long South American flights.... SCL, EZE, and eve
83 Mayor : Not if you read the latest from Ed Bastian and Glen Hauenstein about the 788's. With their possible weight and other issues, I believe they'd rather
84 Breaker1011 : If it's not, why has Delta been making a pretty big deal about it's impressive cargo growth both domestically and internationally?
85 RwSEA : Doubtful. No one is going to fly SEA-SLC-NRT-XXX unless the fare is really cheap (and that's bad for DL). I hope you're right though, that more servi
86 PanAm788 : Damn. I'm gonna real disappointed if they wait til 2011 or whatever for the 787. NW was really excited for the early spots and I would have thought t
87 Gigneil : Yeah, the problem is the first several 787s are going to be delivered well under spec... and DL wants no part of that. Eventually, they are going to n
88 Flighty : Well of course, NW merged with an airline called Delta who has over 100 widebodies, so things changed since that time. Delta clearly feels they can f
89 USAFDO : Are the NW F/A's going to be paid to deadhead to ATL to work their 747 flights?
90 Centrair : So which will happen? DTW-HKG with a 744? ATL-CDG with a 744? DTW-AMS regular with a 744? ATL-China with a 744? or Decrease 744s until all can be pain
91 HNLDC10s : when is DL starting ATL-HNL 744?
92 Panamair : Last I heard, supposed to be around April. Well, for one, Delta has traditionally not paid too much attention to cargo as most other carriers...certa
93 VictorKilo : If GUM, HNL, PDX, and SPN are supposed to be operated by DL 763ER, how are they going to operate NRT-HKG with a 333? Is one of the HNL flights going
94 Bobnwa : There is no deadheading required for a ATL-NRT 747. Can't a trip do DTW-NRT-ATL-NRT-DTW?
95 CokePopper : Delta is setting up a "satellite" base in ATL for the former NW F/A's to fly this route. ATL-NRT.
96 MaverickM11 : ATLHNL is back to a single 764
97 Mayor : Yeah, DL already went thru that with the MD-11's.
98 Warreng24 : Wow. When was the last scheduled narrow-body service to BKK by an USA-based carrier? Maybe the old TW 707's or UA DC8's?
99 MDW22L31C : Are their any changes to the flights into NGO.
100 Deltal1011man : yea nnon-revs got kiiled in DKR because they 764 can't carry a full PAX. I used a 777 block time not a 744. 789 would be better(just ask AA) hell no
101 Viscount724 : UA never used DC-8s on transpacific routes (beyond Hawaii).
102 Warreng24 : EWR would not make much sense as a connection point for passengers. Perhaps a good way to get O/D from the NYC area, but who would want to fly to EWR
103 BlrBird : Is PDX-AMS being canned.. cannot find schedules in Aug '09?
104 DELTA7478 : Can a 767-300ER fly all the way from LAX to NRT with out being weight restricted ??
105 Gigneil : What? Everyone? JFK is very limited in connections vs EWR. You have it backwards. NS
106 Gigneil : As was said before, my contention is no that it cannot. NS
107 MaverickM11 : Not it *was* in the schedule and then it was *removed* from the schedule, so as it stands it's still a single daily 764.
108 Bobnwa : Don't know where you are lookung, but everwhere I look, the flight shows up.
109 LAXdude1023 : Its mostly full of LAX bound traffic though. I dont think an East Coast-BKK flight will work no matter who flies it or where.
110 Warreng24 : Sorry if I wasn't clear in my original post. I was responding to the suggestion that EWR-BKK be tried instead of JFK-BKK. Not to be too OT, but TG fa
111 DeltaL1011man : Well I still show 2x daily 764. Unless you can look on DeltaMatic or PARS then I wouldn't say its not in there.
112 MaverickM11 : Are you sure? One is a one stop over SLC.
113 DeltaL1011man : Nope I see 2x ATL-HNL 764 n/s 1x SLC-HNL 764 n/s and 2x LAX-HNL 763 n/s (and thats what the employees see at home)
114 CV880 : This one sees 1 n/s (764)ATL-HNL-ATL 30Apr/30Jun, and that is what is has been showing for the past month. The proposed 747 has never been reflected
115 OA412 : DL.com shows 2 ATL-HNL nonstops but only one of the 2 is bookable, the 9:55 departure.
116 Post contains links LAXdude1023 : There seems to be a glitch with delta.com and their HNL schedules. Look at this: http://www.delta.com/schedules/trave...ons/flight_sched/results/inde
117 CV880 : DeltaNet(employee site) shows it correctly as one n/s and a one stop. Clicking on the flight number on the Delta.com website shows the SLC stop. If t
118 DeltaL1011man : Whoa...........I looked at it two days ago and I swear it was 2x daily n/s. If I had to guess its only half in there. (Half meaning the 1 flight but
119 CV880 : The programmers at DeltaMagic have always lagged compared to their counterparts at OAL's, probably which can be attributed to a system that is diffic
120 Rwy04LGA : OT...Does NW fly AMS-BKK using their own a/c?
121 RwSEA : No. They fly NRT-BKK. The only flight NW offers from AMS that isn't to the US is AMS-BOM.
122 Rwy04LGA : Thanks. Someone misinformed me. The maps in Sky Magazine do show AMS-BOM but not AMS-BKK, hence the need for confirmation. I was looking for alternate
123 Hjulicher : If you go onto NWA.com all the schedules are loaded with the correct info. There is only one non-stop fligth out of ATL on the 764, the other, is a d
124 Aaway : Quick o.t. reply - Gigneil is right on this one as TGs O&D/Connects split is about 60/40 ex-LAX. That split is influenced largely by the fact that LA
125 Airtechy : A friend is flying BKK to NRT on Friday. According to the NW agents in BKK, the flight is currently a 757. They must be confused. at
126 Bobnwa : I think possibly, your friend is confused. The NWA computer which the agents in BKK use shows a A333
127 Mayor : I understood that DL had changed their minds and decided to stick with the DL system??
128 N801NW : FWIW, last I read was that that nwa.com was going to become the new delta.com. They had decided not to change the "back-office" systems from Deltamat
129 FlyASAGuy2005 : Keep in mind that these peopl at DL, a large part are former NW guys that have been doing it "their way" for many years. Seems to me that both sides
130 Mayor : Are we talking baggage or cargo? IIRC, you can't walk in off the street and ship something at DL unless you are a "known" shipper and the general pub
131 WorldTraveler : The 764 has consistently operated with a full load from DKR. The segment operated with a 95% LF... yes that's 95% LF... for last summer..... that's t
132 NWAESC : Not for nothing, but the latest issue of ATW shows an increase in FTK's for DL of 11.86, and a decrease of 8.48% for the period of Jan-Aug 2008 compa
133 BlrBird : My bad.. yes the flights do show up.
134 Post contains links Panamair : Well, the news for cargo traffic keeps getting worse. DLNW just reported traffic numbers for both, and it looks like for the month of December, DL ex
135 DeltaL1011man : I thought you could via Delta DASH
136 Timf : It was reported within the past week on FlyerTalk that it was determined to be too difficult to integrate nwa.com with Delta's system and they will c
137 N801NW : Thanks for the update. I don't read FT very often.
138 Gigneil : So are we agreeing? I think EWR-BKK is the superior choice after Continental joins Star. NS
139 EXAAUADL : LAX is a huge cargo market. Probably in the top 3 in the USA. Maybe cuz of the recession cargo would be down, but long term LAX-NRT really needs a 74
140 Mayor : Only if it's 16 oz. or less, unless they've changed that rule and it hasn't been my experience that they change the rules to be LESS restrictive.
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