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Intra-California Traffic  
User currently offlineWingedMigrator From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2215 posts, RR: 56
Posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3064 times:

Does anyone know (or provide a reference to) how much north-south air travel there is within California, between the SF Bay Area and the LA area?

Specifically, about how many seats are flown in aggregate on a typical weekday between (collectively) SFO-SJC-OAK and LAX-ONT-BUR-SNA-LGB ?

I'm interested in this figure to compare with planned high speed rail service levels between SF and LA. Thanks for any guidance.

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2899 times:

I don't have any stats, but conventional wisdom tells me intra-California air traffic is by far the largest of any state in the nation. The Southern California - Bay area corridor is one of the busiest in the world. I don't think it has enough mojo to compete with the North-east from IAD/DCA/BWI- PHL- EWR/JFK/LGA- BOS,

User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9522 posts, RR: 31
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2827 times:

you will find the answer under www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov go to FAQ

quote
...of the 33 Million air trips forecast to be made in the year 2030, over a third or 12 million would be attracted to HSR, bringing the level of air traffic in the state back to the levels of 2000 , slightly lighter than it is today...
unquote

which means that today there are about 20 to 22 million passengers annually on intra CA flights.

The estimate of passengers on HSR is between 88-117 million, many of whom will travel only on portions of the route.

A very attractive system BTW which the people of California should vote through all obstacles.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineWingedMigrator From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2215 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2754 times:



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 2):
you will find the answer under www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov

I'm looking for a more neutral source.  Big grin

I think the best way may be a brute-force tally of airline timetables. I've already taken a look at WN, and they have about 100 flights each way every day.  Wow!


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9522 posts, RR: 31
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2644 times:



Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 3):
I'm looking for a more neutral source.

what reason would they have to make false statements on today's passenger totals?

Try the US or CA bureau of statistics, industry association, google yourself through. I reckon the figure of 20 Million plus is pretty accurate.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineBooDog From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 257 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2626 times:

I checked reservations quick. On April 1, 2009, WN will offer 99 flights between SFO/OAK/SJC and BUR/LAX/ONT/SNA. (They do not serve LGB.)
SFO-LAX 12

OAK-BUR 15
OAK-LAX 16
OAK-ONT 10
OAK-SNA 9

SJC-BUR 9
SJC-LAX 13
SJC-ONT 7
SJC-SNA 8

If you include San Diego and Sacramento in the numbers, you have 182 flights a day between NoCal and SoCal;

SFO-LAX 12
SFO-SAN 10

OAK-BUR 15
OAK-LAX 16
OAK-ONT 10
OAK-SNA 9
OAK-SAN 14

SJC-BUR 9
SJC-LAX 13
SJC-ONT 7
SJC-SNA 8
SJC-SAN 10

SMF-BUR 10
SMF-LAX 9
SMF-ONT 11
SMF-SNA 7
SMF-SAN 12

approx. 90% of the flights are on 737-300/700 with 137 seats, the rest are on 737-500's with 122 seats.



B1B - best looking aircraft ever.
User currently offlineEaa3 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1015 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2503 times:

That is incredible. Almost hourly flights between most of these points (given that they don´t fly much at night).

But what is the total amount of flights. There must be at least twice this amount if everyone is included.


User currently offlineWingedMigrator From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2215 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2452 times:



Quoting Eaa3 (Reply 6):
There must be at least twice this amount if everyone is included.

That seems about right...
WN 99 flights
AA 26 flights
UA 35 flights
AS 22 flights
VX 6 flights
Others ??

200 flights/day/direction x 130 seats/flight x 2 directions x 365 days/year = 19M seats/year

Thanks everyone.


User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2443 times:

The Norcal to SoCal market alternates with NYC-South Florida as the largest domestic market.

User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2363 times:



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 8):
The Norcal to SoCal market alternates with NYC-South Florida as the largest domestic market.

There is more traffic on the Eastern corridor from NYC to Florida than from Southern Cal to Northern Cal. Remember you've got IAD, DCA, BWI, CLT and ATL in the middle.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25719 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2331 times:

Easy - check the DOT BTS database.

Can easily see number of seats offered and actual traffic carried on any domestic city pair, export to xls and analyze as you desire.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2322 times:



Quoting Juventus (Reply 9):
There is more traffic on the Eastern corridor from NYC to Florida than from Southern Cal to Northern Cal. Remember you've got IAD, DCA, BWI, CLT and ATL in the middle.

The O&D markets for NYC-South Florida and Bay Area-LA Basin are the #1 and #2 markets regardless of intermediate connection possibilities. I never said anything indicative of a Eastern corridor.


User currently offlineAirlineBrat From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 652 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2295 times:

Might as well add ACV/RDD-LAX to the NorCal-SoCal list. QX flies two Q-400's a day. One stops in RDD on the way to LAX and the other stops in ACV before heading south.


I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6865 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2025 times:



Quoting Juventus (Reply 9):
There is more traffic on the Eastern corridor from NYC to Florida than from Southern Cal to Northern Cal.

You're saying total O&D pax between three NY airports and... how many Florida airports, beats total O&D between how many NorCal airports and how many SoCal airports?

If "Florida" means everything from Orlando south, then you'd have to include Sacramento in NorCal and San Diego in SoCal, along with all the usual suspects. (That'll take a while to add up.)


User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1795 times:



Quoting Timz (Reply 13):
You're saying total O&D pax between three NY airports and... how many Florida airports, beats total O&D between how many NorCal airports and how many SoCal airports?

No, not just the NYC airports, the whole North-East, BOS/EWR/JFK/LGA/IAD/DCA/BWI/PHL to Florida. Too many airports for California to compete against.


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6865 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1641 times:

Good, that's clear now-- when you said

Quoting Juventus (Reply 9):
There is more traffic on the Eastern corridor from NYC to Florida than from Southern Cal to Northern Cal.

you meant that "NYC" includes everything from the Washington area to Boston.


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2932 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1602 times:



Quoting AirlineBrat (Reply 12):
Might as well add ACV/RDD-LAX to the NorCal-SoCal list. QX flies two Q-400's a day.

...and STS-LAX 2x daily...


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2932 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1600 times:

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 7):
VX 6 flights

VX has 7 LAX_SFO and 5 SFO-SAN.

[Edited 2009-01-09 11:52:09]

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