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If TWA, Eastern, And Pan Am Were Around Today  
User currently offlineDUALRATED From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1001 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 13693 times:

With all the talk on A.Net lately about the future of airline fleets here in the USA , and weather they should be Boeing, or Airbus, twins, or quads. I began to wonder what TW, EA and PA would have looked like if they were still around today.

There fleets were so old one could only imagine what they would look like today, although it seemed that TWA was going all Airbus four long haul. But I could be wrong.

So what do y'all think?

Classic Pan Am.


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T-Way began to modernize.


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Eastern the introducers of Airbus to the USA.


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AIRLINERS.NET MODERATORS SUCK MOOSE DICK!!!!
80 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4877 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 13676 times:

TWA also ordered the A318. TWA had to do something with those A330 orders they had floating around for years, hence this order. Personally I think TWA would have been better off taking delivery of the 330's. TWA's been gone 8 years now (more or less), I think the planned alliance with America West would have led to an eventual merger between the two, with maybe US thrown in as well under the TWA name with HQ's in Tempe. Pure speculation of course. Airbus and 717/MD80/757/767 fleet. 767 probably would have been the first to go....with 330/350 replacements. Hubs: PHX/STL/PHL/CLT. Focus Cities: BOS/LGA/JFK/DCA/PIT/LAS/LAX/SJU. Alliance: oneworld.

As for EA and PA...that's a merger that might have made some sense at some point in time, after the sale of the Pacific to UA but before the sale of LHR and Atlantic to UA and DL, respectively. They probably would have gone with Airbus, that's where PA was headed anyway.
Hubs: ATL/MIA/JFK. Focus Cities: LGA/DCA/BOS. Alliance: Star.

Well that was fun!



Next Up: STL-TPA-BWI-PWM-BWI-STL
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5815 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 13647 times:



Quoting DUALRATED (Thread starter):
Classic Pan Am.

I'm not sure what PA would have done for large capacity long haul but I know they were taking delivery of A310/A300 aircraft so they may have gone the Airbus route when it came down to replacing their 747 fleet. As for short haul PA had a decent sized A320 order on the books when they shut down.

Quoting DUALRATED (Thread starter):
T-Way began to modernize.

TWA had A330 aircraft on order when they were taken over by AA so one would assume that they would have gone for 333/332 aircraft with maybe some 340s thrown in for longer haul flights although, at the time of the takeover, TW didn't operate any flight that could not have been operated by the 332. Short haul TW had 318 and 712 aircraft on order as well as 320s on order and option. IIRC the plan was to replace the DC9s with the 712/318 and use that combination of aircraft to operate longer/thinner routes around the US. The 320s were meant to replace the last of the 727s and to start replacing some of the older M80s.

Quoting DUALRATED (Thread starter):
Eastern

I'm not sure what to say about Eastern, they seemed to be willing to operate a rather eclectic fleet.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineExaauadl From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 13601 times:



Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 1):
Personally I think TWA would have been better off taking delivery of the 330's.

I disagree. TW's JFK problem was yields, and teh A330 wouldnt have helped that. One of the smartest things any airline has ever done was when TW closed JFK. It was a very difficult decison and too bad they didnt do it 10 years earlier


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4877 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 13578 times:



Quoting Exaauadl (Reply 3):


I disagree. TW's JFK problem was yields, and teh A330 wouldnt have helped that. One of the smartest things any airline has ever done was when TW closed JFK. It was a very difficult decison and too bad they didnt do it 10 years earlier

Over reliance on 747's was TWA's JFK problem for along time, those were great in the summer but dogs in the winter. TWA was right sizing JFK for most of the 90's. Unfortunately, the yields went away with LHR. DL seems to be doing fine now at JFK with the right mix of equipement, there's no reason to think TWA couldn't have retooled JFK's ops in time with the right equipement. TWA didn't have the benefit of major alliance partners either. TWA never "closed" JFK while independent, that came after the AA buyout. They did leave T-6 for T-5, thus opening the door for B6. As part of a larger network, like the one I mentioned, JFK would have had it's place in the TWA network, maybe not like the glory days of yore, but significant.

Of course, since this is a fantasy thread, one can dream!



Next Up: STL-TPA-BWI-PWM-BWI-STL
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 13555 times:

I've always thought it too bad that Pan Am couldn't have re-invented itself a la Jet Blue - they already had the JFK airport hub, and if they had had the business of B6, they could have used that to tie into their JFK trans-Atlantic flights.

Too bad also that Pan Am didn't come up with the Premium Service transcon idea...

TWA might still be around if that blood-sucking slime-that-gets-caught-under-your-fingernails-while-scraping-the-bottom-of-the-barrel-of-humanity Carl Icahn hadn't leeched all the life out of the airline. That man singlehandedly killed TWA, and may there be a circle of hell LOW enough for that waste of a human being.

And as much of a union member as I am, I will have to say that Eastern simply could not have survived in the form in which the unions demanded. Deregulation and the necessity of cutting costs was lost on them, and in the end they died. Unlike Alitalia, the only real other example of a dinosaur of an airline structure, Eastern didn't government bailouts.

AirTran has taken the place of Eastern as Delta's ATL competition, and Delta has slowly come around to realizing the value of JFK as an international hub - ironic, considering DL bought Pan Am a LONG time ago, but is only now developing it to its true potential.

STL as a hub, though, might not have worked out - focus city, yes, but business-center-necessary-for-a-true-hub? Not really.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineBriGuyinHou From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 13496 times:

If Eastern, Pan Am and TWA were all still with us today, they'd be one airline... Eapantwa.


ONE AIRLINE. ONE FUTURE. EAPANTWA AIRLINES.



I've travelled the world and the seven seas. Everybody is looking for something.
User currently offlineAtlanta From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 473 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 13474 times:



Quoting BriGuyinHou (Reply 6):

I would call it Trans East American Air Lines

TEAL for short!  Smile

Fly TEAL!

Atlanta



Welcome To The New Delta- The World's Largest Airline
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 13460 times:



Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 4):
TWA never "closed" JFK

They kept TLV, CAI and RUH but only cuz they had govt contracts and were the only US carrier to CAI and RUH. I think the spokes they still had from JFK were STL, DCA, SFO and LAX and that is it but I am uncertain


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22299 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 13440 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 5):
STL as a hub, though, might not have worked out - focus city, yes, but business-center-necessary-for-a-true-hub? Not really.

If a healthy DL can/could sustain CVG and a healthy NW can sustain MEM, I have to believe that STL would have stuck around as a hub. It might not have been as large, but I suspect there would be more TW service than what AA has now.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineHOOB747 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 433 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 13398 times:

My guess would be: TWA flying mostly 772's across the pond to Paris. Eastern flying 767's hub to hub. And Pan Am flying 340's and 744 across the globe. Hey, you said if, right (ha)?

My 2 cents.  scratchchin 



747 Number One Fan from U.S.A
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 13392 times:



Quote:
If a healthy DL can/could sustain CVG and a healthy NW can sustain MEM, I have to believe that STL would have stuck around as a hub. It might not have been as large, but I suspect there would be more TW service than what AA has now.

Agreed about TWA, but are CVG and MEM at the levels of what they used to be?

I don't want to re-hash it here, but it has been discussed in comparing MSP and STL - two metro areas of similar size - that the amount of business traffic truly dictates what hubs will survived and which will slowly be downsized into "focus cities". Minnesota has an extraordinarily high number of Fortune 100 companies, including giants like 3M and Target, that will pay the extra fares to fly non-stop routes. Unfortunately for STL - and to a lesser extent CVG and MEM - this level of "service requirement" is not present. STL lost its hometown airline, and although AA keeps it a "focus city", unless its business level changes, it probably isn't coming back. CVG and MEM haven't had the plug pulled - yet. They may and they may not. Realistically, neither are major business centers of the U.S., with both lying in regions surrounded by much larger airports such as Chicago, Detroit, Washington (Dulles), DFW, and Atlanta. In much the same way any STL traffic could (distance-wise) be routed through ORD, all traffic through MEM or CVG could be shuttled through another nearby airport.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineRandyWaldron From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 324 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 13384 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 5):
I've always thought it too bad that Pan Am couldn't have re-invented itself a la Jet Blue

Pan Am did invent itself. The Blue Ball was replaced by a red and blue Widget.

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 5):
they already had the JFK airport hub, and if they had had the business of B6, they could have used that to tie into their JFK trans-Atlantic flights.

Look at the passenger enplanement numbers of Pan Am in the late 80's at JFK versus B6 in JFK around 2005-2006. There's not too much of a disparity. Pan Am's problem was never loads, it was YIELDS, piss-poor management and a fleet too heavily laden with inefficient 747's and too few twin engined airplanes (a la A310).

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 5):
Delta has slowly come around to realizing the value of JFK as an international hub

You have got to be kidding. While I'm no fan of the widget, you have got to be kidding when you say Delta has "slowly come around" - that hub, combined with Delta's tip-top operational programs are what saved that airline from going the way of Pan Am several times.



"Flaps 20, gear down, landing checklist please..."
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22299 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 13329 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 11):
In much the same way any STL traffic could (distance-wise) be routed through ORD, all traffic through MEM or CVG could be shuttled through another nearby airport.

 checkmark That's exactly what happened once an airline with a hub at ORD bought TW, and exactly what is happening now at CVG. But when STL is your one and only hub in the middle of the country, it's a different story. Had TW survived, STL would have (by necessity) been a big part of the carrier's domestic network.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24061 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 13312 times:



Quoting Atlanta (Reply 7):
Quoting BriGuyinHou (Reply 6):


I would call it Trans East American Air Lines

TEAL for short!

Air New Zealand might object.  Smile TEAL was the acronym for their original name (until 1965) -- Tasman Empire Airways Limited. The full name was rarely used .


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User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1070 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 13203 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 8):
They kept TLV, CAI and RUH but only cuz they had govt contracts and were the only US carrier to CAI and RUH. I think the spokes they still had from JFK were STL, DCA, SFO and LAX and that is it but I am uncertain

When AA bought TWA, they were still flying from JFK to Paris, Tel Aviv, Cairo and Riyadh across the Atlantic (all 763’s, with JFK-CAI-RUH operated by a single flight)

They also had flights from JFK to various Caribbean destinations including San Juan (4x757), Santo Domingo (1x757), Puerto Plata (2x757), Nassau (1xM80), Freeport (1xM80), Cancun (1xM80) and Antigua (1x weekly M80).

As for domestic, they still had the transcons to Los Angeles (1x763+3x757) and San Francisco (3x757), as well as flights to Miami (3xM80), Orlando (3xM80) and St Louis (1x763+4xM80).

In total, they still had around 30 mainline departures per day.

The only TWA route from JFK that did not overlap an AA route and is still around today is JFK-CUN.



Ryan / HKG
User currently offlineAtomsareenough From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 566 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 13163 times:



Quoting RandyWaldron (Reply 12):
Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 5):
Delta has slowly come around to realizing the value of JFK as an international hub

You have got to be kidding.

yeah, i don't think anyone fails to realize that JFK is a natural international hub. obviously new york is a major world city and gateway and JFK is its main international airport. i think it's just that pan am was primarily an international airline and delta has been primarily a domestic airline. i'm sure delta will continue to expand and become a truly international global airline now that it's the largest one in the world, and JFK will continue to play a major role.


User currently offlineLuckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 13150 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 5):
TWA might still be around if that blood-sucking slime-that-gets-caught-under-your-fingernails-while-scraping-the-bottom-of-the-barrel-of-humanity Carl Icahn hadn't leeched all the life out of the airline.

Could you be a little more descriptive next time please  Wink

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
DL can/could sustain CVG and a healthy NW can sustain MEM,

In light of the fact that neither carrier exists on its own anymore that's a moot point. Besides, the writing's on the wall for both CVG and MEM, no?


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4877 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 13141 times:



Quoting Luckyone (Reply 17):


In light of the fact that neither carrier exists on its own anymore that's a moot point. Besides, the writing's on the wall for both CVG and MEM, no?

If I were a betting man, and I'm not since lady luck hit me upside the head almost every time I've gambled, I would say CVG is more at risk then MEM.



Next Up: STL-TPA-BWI-PWM-BWI-STL
User currently offlinePhllax From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 425 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 12987 times:

Had TWA realized there were loopholes to Caribu (SJU hub) earlier, they might have made it. They simply ran out of time. All of the islands were thrilled to get TWA as a direct competitor to AA, which had and still has high fares out of the Caribbean. I still think AA stepped in because TWA was eroding their revenue, especially cargo revenue, down there.

EA probably would also not have made it due to the longstanding labor strife. If they had, they probably would have stuck with MD aircraft (MD-88, MD-90 and MD-95) and the 757 for domestic, and probably the 767 for long-haul to Europe and South America.

PA, as stated abouve would be all Airbus 320 and 330 fleet.

In the end, I think the only one truly missed is TWA.


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7523 posts, RR: 43
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 12930 times:

If I am not mistaken, DL had a minority interest in PA. Perhaps, if things had been less difficult, the two would have at some point merged. Was there ever any discussion that could have led to such a combination?

[Edited 2009-01-07 17:56:41]


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1077 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 12914 times:

Im with PanAm747 in that Eastern today(post-strike, post Lorenzo, post selling South America) would look allot like AirTran and i'm sure the fact that allot of FL management came from EA is no coincidence. Probably with the 717s and either the 737-700s or perhaps A319/320s.

TWA.....yea...that poor proud bird was gutted and left for dead in the 80s/early 90s and no idea what it would look like. I suspect that it would be a larger version of Midwest today...exsisting as a brand with most of its flying contracted out to regionals and international code share partners. Perhaps PanAm would be in a similar arrangement but on an international scale....morphing into the type of operation it was before the National merger fiasco.

Just a comment on MEM btw. Yes, there has been a marked shift to RJ flying...but show me an airport that has not seen that happen. MEM was never a mega hub, for Republic or NWA. It has always been a regional 3 bank operation...with an 4th bank thrown in during good times and axed as soon as the economy went south. Frequencies to the west coast were always 1, maybe 2 a day...and many have always been seasonal.


User currently offlineTWAL1011727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 619 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 12897 times:



Quoting DUALRATED (Thread starter):
TW,

My dad retired from TWA in 1987 and never had troubles non-revving.....
until the AA monster took them over...Now he has to purchase tickets on other
airlines to get around.

Quoting Exaauadl (Reply 3):
I disagree. TW's JFK problem was yields,

see below

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 5):
TWA might still be around if that blood-sucking slime-that-gets-caught-under-your-fingernails-while-scraping-the-bottom-of-the-barrel-of-humanity Carl Icahn hadn't leeched all the life out of the airline. That man singlehandedly killed TWA, and may there be a circle of hell LOW enough for that waste of a human being.

AMEN!!!...Couldn't have said it any better than that

Quoting Phllax (Reply 19):
In the end, I think the only one truly missed is TWA.

How true

KD


User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6411 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 12899 times:



Quoting RandyWaldron (Reply 12):
Pan Am did invent itself. The Blue Ball was replaced by a red and blue Widget.

As much as I like DL, that's fairly insulting to all the ex-PA people out there. DL can thank PA for its expansive European operation and JFK hub. In fact, I'd like to see DL honor the PA legacy a little more.



Next trip: MSY-SEA-GEG-SEA-LWS-BOI-PDX-SEA-LAS on AS
User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2950 posts, RR: 37
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 12835 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Well for Eastern...

At the end of the Texas International era EA had 20 737-300s planned for service (they ended up with CO), plus 10 757s on option.

IF they were around today my feeling is something like this for fleet:

MD-80, 737-300, 737-800, 757-200, A330 or 767-300... probably would of picked up newer A300s too for the Carribean, though if they would still be in the fleet now...?
Maybe toss in the 717 as well.

Though honestly, EA was dead before Lorenzo, even without him chipping away they never could of survived the Southwest effect on the east coast in the long term.

PanAm... well... the quesiton is, where do you break from reality...

at the end PA was a latin american centric airline, they'd sold/killed the rest of the network already. So if we go with that... fleet: A310, A32x, A330 or 777... probably some 737s in there or maybe E-series now. Probably an expanded domestic network and a minor relaunch to Europe (LGW, FRA, CDG from MIA).

However, if they hadn't sold Europe... fleet in my mind would become more along the lines of:

A32x, A330, 777-200/300, Maybe 744, 767-300, probably some older 737s as well.

TWA...

Mostly the same network as they had in the late 90s... fleet 717, MD80, A320/319/318, 757, 767-300, probably with A350 or 787 orders... and they would be free from the Karabu deal making their bottom line healthier for sure. Maybe some additional flying with 757s to Europe... though mostly i think they would of rebuilt the domestic network, probably added more express flying with RJs of some sort.

One of the best options for TWA and Eastern would of been a merger. Their networks matched up nicely as did their fleets in the late 80s (both had Dc-9, 727, L1011... EAs 757s and TWAs 767s were close, only oddballs would of been EAs DC-10s and A300s, the Dc-10s would of been easily replaced with TWA 747s, the A300s were a big enough fleet to survive on their own).



Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
25 Breaker1011 : With all due respect for former PA'ers, don't forget the big D had quite a nice European operation going for itself out of ATL, DFW, and CVG before P
26 MSYtristar : Of course not...but DL, overnight, turned into a true European powerhouse thanks to PA. Also, don't forget the FRA hub, with its P2P flights within E
27 Breaker1011 : Several years at a complete loss IIRC - I don't think FRA ever turned a dime of profit for DL and didn't for PA either in it's latter years. But alas
28 Cubsrule : It's not a moot point. It's exactly my point. DL now has DTW as an alternative to CVG, and we're seeing cuts at CVG as a result. However, until that
29 STT757 : The last aircraft type that Eastern had on order (Texas Air placed the order for them) but were never delivered as they had ceased operations was the
30 Post contains images FX1816 : Hey here is my idea for Eastern: I also have a few MD-90's and an MD-87 in the same paint scheme. Regarding PanAm I have a 767-300 in a modified billb
31 AirlinerFanPGF : As DL buys NW today to become one of the biggest airline in the world, why DL does not buy back the PAN AM brand and become a world wide well known ai
32 Nbgskygod : Perhapse the same level the built special for Lorenzo.
33 DiscoverCSG : Wouldn't it have been something if the "jetBlue" brand had been created to compete with an airline called "TEAL" ? If that had happened, spotting at
34 Directorguy : Had Pan Am and TWA been around as of 2009.... I wonder what would have happened to their operations in Africa and the Middle East. Would Pan Am have r
35 Sunking737 : Trans Pan World American East Airways. TPWAEAirways Deltran World Airways DWA Bankrupt American East World Airways BAEWA.
36 Bobnwa : Did American not give the TWA retirees pass privileges when they bought the assets?
37 B767300ER : As a former TW F/A now with DL I can remember the mid 1990's bneing based at JFK. While there is enough blame to go around from my perspective one of
38 Isitsafenow : Now, this is a topic that can go anywhere with speculation...and a pretty good one, I may add. I would think FIRST: TWA and PAN AM would merge to beco
39 STT757 : I think they would have merged with CO, which is what Texas Air had in mind when they acquired Eastern. The strike and Union kept that from happening
40 DIA : I think if they all had merged...that would have been one airline still flying around with a great base of dedicated fliers. MDC would also probably s
41 Upcfordcruiser : Today, if PAA made it past 12/4/91 and the airline aftermath of 9/11 (another topic for another thread, but I feel they themselves would've been a tar
42 PHLBOS : Did TW indeed have orders for the A330? According to the Airways Collectible magazine tribute to TWA, there was mention of the canceled A318 order (f
43 OzarkD9S : Because Icahn came from Ozark, right? The "Ozark Clique" sold LHR? The "Ozark Clique" came up with Karibu? The "Ozark Clique" ran TWA after Icahn lef
44 Post contains links Viscount724 : TW ordered 20 A330-300s (with 20 options) in 1989. It kept getting postponed and at some point was cancelled. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...
45 Atomsareenough : MDC = McDonnell Douglas Corporation
46 ItalianFlyer : Does anyone know if I am on target with this: didn't PA talk to NWO & Republic separately in the early 80s about a merger ???? IIRC TWA had advanced t
47 FI642 : What about Braniff? Imagine them today! While I doubt they would still be a 747 operator, it is easy to see their jelly-bean-fleet in whatever metal y
48 TW741 : that's the best description I've ever read. I had the pleasure of attending a meeting at Mt Kisco on market development as one of the European sales
49 Isitsafenow : OK...I'll play this game. Now remember, kiddies..........this is a FANTASY. No sense rebutting here. Just add to it. ONE.....the strike had to have e
50 ItalianFlyer : Excellent point! Dare I say that if BI had made it....AA would be nowhere the size it is today.
51 B767300ER : To OZARKD9S- "Yes" on all points, perhaps you can go to STL to await the departure to LGW, or CDG or HNL oh I forgot you only fly to Springfield, Des
52 EA CO AS : TW kept TLV going primarily because it would have cost them far too much to shut it down thanks to the inane Israeli unemployment laws. It was more e
53 2travel2know : Having flown those 3 airlines in their golden era, I'm close to say that I'd have thought both TWA and Pan Am could had survived. For TWA I base my as
54 BriGuyinHou : BAEWA.... The MOST nonstops from Chapter11 to Chapter7 than any other airline!
55 Bobnwa : Tom Plasket, the CEO of Pan AM suggested to NWA that NW be bought out by PA using assets of NW(who had zero debt) as a loan to PA enabling PA to buy
56 Atlanta : @ JFK it's already hard with both DL and B6's eurowhite/ navy blue colors! Throw into the mix, another Blue airline! Atlanta
57 OzarkD9S : 9/11? The overlapping of STL with ORD and DFW in the AA system? The weaker O & D of STL compared to other hubs? The inability of AA's management (or
58 B767300ER : We do receive randon as well as scheduled testing at DL as we did at TW. But glad to say the OZARK CLIQUE is not involved with AA as they were also th
59 Klwright69 : I haven't had time to read all the posts, so I hope I don't overpost.... It is a shame these companies did not survive. I took all three of them in th
60 OzarkD9S : Mandatory pre-hire, and at any time when an on the job injury occurs. And at any signs of delusional mindsets, we could be sent to a nice quiet place
61 PanAm747 : No. They were on their last legs, and are in the airline management textbook under "You Can't Shrink To Become Profitable". As much as I love the Que
62 MSYtristar : They were but they actually turned a small profit in '87 leading into '88. They were also spending money on refurbishing the 747's. Things were looki
63 SCL767 : Many former PA F/A's and other staff also still work at AA. AA has a lot of ex-Eastern employees as well. Yep, and the Pan Am International Flight Ac
64 Yellowtail : UA seems to be trying this right now...maybe F9 too...
65 PC12Fan : I suggest you direct those inquiries to AA and Mr. Ichan himself.
66 BHMNONREV : You know something PC, this poster may very well be onto something. Maybe our PIT fans can pipe in here, but I'm sure it was the "Allegheny Clique" w
67 RJ777 : My Thoughts: Eastern: DEFINITELY a New Livery Fleet- Short Haul: 737-8,-9(ER), maybe a few Airbus' sprinkled in, 752 & 753 Long Haul: 767-300, 772, 74
68 Atlanta : Well, they could be like AA or AF and keep the same livery for many years. (I loved the old hockey stick.) Don't forget TW did order A318's making it
69 PC12Fan : Dunno man. I've been working at STL since 97, and this is the very first time I've ever heard of any finger pointing at the three swallows. I just do
70 Rockinflyer : [ What about Braniff? Imagine them today! While I doubt they would still be a 747 operator, it is easy to see their jelly-bean-fleet in whatever meta
71 BHMNONREV : Just a tad...lol When my dad joined TWA in 1965, Lambert became a second home of sorts and I remember the great relationship between TWA and Ozark be
72 SXDFC : Although I was too young to remember PA, ( I am almost 20 years old) it would have been cool to see (Pan American Airways) flying around their 747s. A
73 PC12Fan : That would make a lot of peoples day sir.
74 NASCARAirforce : I love these kinds of threads: TWA: Well they haven't been gone too long yet: I believe their fleet before AA took them over was: 717 757 767-300 MD-8
75 USPIT10L : In January 1997, the airline cut way back on domestic flights out of Kennedy, suspended service from New York to Frankfurt and Athens, and said it wo
76 WesternA318 : I worked in CS and Dispatch from 96 to 01 at TW. These departments, in EVERY AIRLINE MERGER since the first one, are usually the departments that clo
77 Stratoduck : TWA was to have been bought by America West. I believe the announcement was to have been April 11, 2001. But with the merger of United and USAir, Amer
78 PC12Fan : With all due respect to 763er, sorry, I got a chuckle outta that.
79 Post contains images Snn2003 : Welcome to the TWA of 2009. (In My Dreams) *Expansive European and Middle Eastern routes including taking; back SNN and DUB from AA, return to ATH amo
80 MotorHussy : One thing I know for sure - TWA - an even older cabin crew. Regards MH
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