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LY To Start TLV - GRU On May 2  
User currently offlineAmirs From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 3
Posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7446 times:

Apparently LY is to finally start long awaited nonstop TLV - GRU service from May 2.
The flight will take 14.5 hours.
LY is also planning to sign codeshare agreements to Argentina, Chile, Uruguay and the rest of Brazil.

I am a bit surprised they will wait with it til the spring and are not taking advantage of flights to South America during their summer.

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2162 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7371 times:

What is the routing of the plane? I assume they cannot fly directly over Libya.

User currently offlineTodaReisinger From Switzerland, joined Mar 2001, 2806 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7334 times:



Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):
I am a bit surprised they will wait with it til the spring and are not taking advantage of flights to South America during their summer.

Indeed. Are they maybe going to receive a new plane until then?

Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):
LY is also planning to sign codeshare agreements to Argentina, Chile, Uruguay and the rest of Brazil.

With which airline(s)?

Btw, is the flight going to be codeshared with another airline? Is Varig or another Brazilian carrier going to fly to TLV?



I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7307 times:

Thanks for the breaking news. Therefore so far in 2009 we will have the following new arrivals in GRU:

- LY TLV-GRU nonstop;
- TK IST-DKR-GRU (to be started in March/09);
- CA PEK-MAD-GRU (to be resumed in March/09)

Also rumours about KQ service NBO-GRU by end of 2009.

Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):
LY is also planning to sign codeshare agreements to Argentina, Chile, Uruguay and the rest of Brazil.

They are finalising conversations with TAM in this respect involving connections to EZE, SCL, MVD, and LIM, besides TAM domestic network in Brazil.

Quoting TodaReisinger (Reply 2):
Is Varig or another Brazilian carrier going to fly to TLV?

No.

Rgs,


User currently offlinePzurita1 From Greenland, joined Sep 2002, 1393 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7262 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 3):
Thanks for the breaking news. Therefore so far in 2009 we will have the following new arrivals in GRU:

- LY TLV-GRU nonstop;
- TK IST-DKR-GRU (to be started in March/09);
- CA PEK-MAD-GRU (to be resumed in March/09)

Finally, GRU is receiving all the services its sheer and size deserve.

If you add KE, JL and EK services, you can see clearly which is the Latin America powerhouse.

pZZ



Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2684 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7131 times:

Which equipment will they use? 77E? I hope anyway that they will not remove the 77Es they use daily on TLV-CDG


אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlineEl Al 001 From Israel, joined Oct 1999, 1063 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7118 times:

Flight numbers and times are still not final - flights will be loaded during this month;
LY009 ETD TLV 22:55 ETA GRU 07:30 (SAT, MON, WED)
LY010 ETD FRU 19:30 ETA TLV 15:35 +1 (SUN, TUE, THU)

LY will dedicate a 772 for this route in the begining in order to offer the best schedule possible, the schedule, however, may change next year.

The reasons for May 2nd are issues with other a/c deployment and establishment at GRU.

Operating GRU meant that BKK will stay with 763 5 weekly (and a 772 once a week) instead of going daily with 772. All came possible once LY recieved its 5th 744.

Also, LY has decided to reinstate 5th weekly flight to LAX and HKG (both with 772)
and the 4th daily flight to NYC - LY011/022


LY planned fleet for S09:
5*744
6*772
3*763
4*762
11*738
2*73G


User currently offlineEl Al 001 From Israel, joined Oct 1999, 1063 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7110 times:

772 deployment will remain like S08 (CDG gets a daily 772)
The 772 became available as the 5th 744 replaced it on 3 weekly EWR, 2 weekly LHR and a weekly AMS/CDG rotations.


User currently offline4xRuv From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 388 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7088 times:

Any ideas when JNB is going to get the 772s?

User currently offlineLXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2122 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7084 times:

Any news on cabin upgrades for all 5 B744's. Will they receive AVOD in all classes?

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7038 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 3):
Thanks for the breaking news. Therefore so far in 2009 we will have the following new arrivals in GRU:

- LY TLV-GRU nonstop;
- TK IST-DKR-GRU (to be started in March/09);
- CA PEK-MAD-GRU (to be resumed in March/09)

You forgot DL LAX-GRU 3x weekly (1 of them from JFK-GRU)

Quoting El Al 001 (Reply 6):
Flight numbers and times are still not final - flights will be loaded during this month;
LY009 ETD TLV 22:55 ETA GRU 07:30 (SAT, MON, WED)
LY010 ETD FRU 19:30 ETA TLV 15:35 +1 (SUN, TUE, THU)

LY product will be very premium even compared to TK and EK in terms of schedule.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2684 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7024 times:



Quoting El Al 001 (Reply 7):
772 deployment will remain like S08 (CDG gets a daily 772)

Great. I hope CDG will keep its 77E daily



אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7010 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
You forgot DL LAX-GRU 3x weekly (1 of them from JFK-GRU)

Thanks, Lipe, but I was just refering to "new arrivals" in terms of new airlines not in terms of new flights/services by already operating airlines in GRU.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
LY product will be very premium even compared to TK and EK in terms of schedule.

But not in terms of frequency because EK operates daily. Also I particularly do not like arriving in GRU 7h30am, it is better earlier in the morning (between 5.00am and 6.00am or between 10.00am and 12.55am).

The TLV arrival at 15.35 also means the working day is gone, but after such as long flight one needs some time to recover.

7am arrival allows for connections with some of TAM network. One destination of special interest must be EZE because of the substantive jewish community, one of the largest in the world. I am sure this flight will be heavily used by connections from EZE!

Quoting El Al 001 (Reply 6):
LY009 ETD TLV 22:55 ETA GRU 07:30 (SAT, MON, WED)
LY010 ETD GRU 19:30 ETA TLV 15:35 +1 (SUN, TUE, THU)

LY will dedicate a 772 for this route in the begining in order to offer the best schedule possible, the schedule, however, may change next year.

Thanks for the interesting information. Is the B772 a new airplane joining El Al fleet? I assume it will be configured in 2 classes, correct? Any ideas of the fares?

Rgs,


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3704 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7001 times:



Quoting El Al 001 (Reply 6):
Flight numbers and times are still not final - flights will be loaded during this month;
LY009 ETD TLV 22:55 ETA GRU 07:30 (SAT, MON, WED)
LY010 ETD FRU 19:30 ETA TLV 15:35 +1 (SUN, TUE, THU)

Let's see what will happen here. I haven't heard of a bilateral amendment yet.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6990 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 13):
Let's see what will happen here. I haven't heard of a bilateral amendment yet.

This is a valid point because the current bilateral (dated 1997 and updated in 2007) only allows 2 weekly frequencies between Israel and Brazil. Flight slots in GRU are also pending ANAC authorisation. As we know, GRU slots now have price of gold!

Rgs,


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25356 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6984 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 12):
Is the B772 a new airplane joining El Al fleet?

LY has been operating the 772 for 8 years. First one delivered January 2001. Six now in service and 4 more on order. I believe their 772s are 3-class, F/J/Y.


User currently offlineDUALRATED From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1001 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6968 times:



Quoting El Al 001 (Reply 6):
planned fleet for S09:
5*744
6*772
3*763
4*762
11*738
2*73G

When does the final 757 leave the fleet? cry 



AIRLINERS.NET MODERATORS SUCK MOOSE DICK!!!!
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6941 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 12):
Thanks, Lipe, but I was just refering to "new arrivals" in terms of new airlines not in terms of new flights/services by already operating airlines in GRU.

I got !

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 12):
But not in terms of frequency because EK operates daily. Also I particularly do not like arriving in GRU 7h30am, it is better earlier in the morning (between 5.00am and 6.00am or between 10.00am and 12.55am).

The TLV arrival at 15.35 also means the working day is gone, but after such as long flight one needs some time to recover.

7am arrival allows for connections with some of TAM network. One destination of special interest must be EZE because of the substantive jewish community, one of the largest in the world. I am sure this flight will be heavily used by connections from EZE!

Yes, but EK demands a daylight flight DXB-GRU. Of course, it's daily while EY only offers 3x weekly

Concerning to connections, TAM now change GRU from a hub-bank model to a full hub scope where main destinations like POA, CNF, SSA, REC, FOR, CWB, BSB and GIG are served at least 5x daily



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6939 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
LY has been operating the 772 for 8 years. First one delivered January 2001. Six now in service and 4 more on order. I believe their 772s are 3-class, F/J/Y.

I know, I was asking whether new B772 would be incorporated into the fleet.

Quoting El Al 001 (Reply 6):
All came possible once LY recieved its 5th 744.

Thanks. The 744s operating cost have lowered considerably with oil prices downturn.

Quoting El Al 001 (Reply 6):
4th daily flight to NYC - LY011/022



Quoting El Al 001 (Reply 7):
and a weekly AMS/CDG

LY operates AMS 5 weekly nonstop. KL operates daily AMS-TLV.

Rgs,


User currently offlineDiscoverCSG From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 832 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6918 times:



Quoting El Al 001 (Reply 6):
LY009 ETD TLV 22:55 ETA GRU 07:30 (SAT, MON, WED)
LY010 ETD FRU 19:30 ETA TLV 15:35 +1 (SUN, TUE, THU)

At first I wondered why the aircraft would be sitting for twelve hours at GRU. Is the timing of the return flight meant to allow departure after work in GRU?

Since you lose a day of work with that schedule or with one that operates ten hours earlier on the return, why not return earlier and get the plane back to TLV sooner?

Or is it about connections?

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
Yes, but EK demands a daylight flight DXB-GRU.

Speaking of connections, I would guess EK's daylight westbound flight is timed as such because of the connections available at DXB with such a schedule.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6918 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Tomorow EY will offer a reception in Rio de Janeiro to celebrate the new flight.
Probably they will confirm schedule and further details.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6878 times:

Could anyone inform me whether any special/unusual security arrangement is necessary for LY operation in GRU? Has any such requiriment been made to Brazilian authorities?

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 20):
Tomorow EY will offer a reception in Rio de Janeiro to celebrate the new flight.
Probably they will confirm schedule and further details.

Good that they are looking further at other markets. I think this flight will mainly rely on O&D GRU-TLV plus a good amount of connections from EZE and GIG. These markets will probably dominate the load of the flight.

According to IB information they have upgraded MAD-TLV to A340 because of strong number of connections from EZE, GRU, GIG to TLV. I think IB will lose a good amount of connecting pax from these markets after LY starts TLV-GRU nonstop.

Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 19):
Speaking of connections, I would guess EK's daylight westbound flight is timed as such because of the connections available at DXB with such a schedule.

EK flight is very different from LY. EK is mainly relying on connections from Asia (China/Japan/India) to Brazil while the ample majority of LY pax will originate or end their flights in TLV.

Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 19):
At first I wondered why the aircraft would be sitting for twelve hours at GRU. Is the timing of the return flight meant to allow departure after work in GRU?

Since you lose a day of work with that schedule or with one that operates ten hours earlier on the return, why not return earlier and get the plane back to TLV sooner?

Or is it about connections

Thats about securing premium traffic and connections. You will note that most US carriers and European carriers leave their planes sitting in GRU for the whole day. JAL sits its B747 for almost 12h in GRU so as to capture the premium market with red-eye schedule.

In the case of LY it is also important to allow for connections especially from EZE and GIG. But it would not make a big difference because there are multitude of flights between GRU-EZE and GRU-GIG. GRU-EZE is the busiest international route in Latin America while Rio-Sao Paulo is one of the busiest routes in the world.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
Concerning to connections, TAM now change GRU from a hub-bank model to a full hub scope where main destinations like POA, CNF, SSA, REC, FOR, CWB, BSB and GIG are served at least 5x daily

Good to see this development, but slots are becoming increasingly rate in GRU. Also I think is devoting GRU more for connections and CGH more for O&D, I guess.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6864 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 21):
Good to see this development, but slots are becoming increasingly rate in GRU. Also I think is devoting GRU more for connections and CGH more for O&D, I guess.

Hardi at this time there is no concern about slots at GRU. It's a matter of request and get. TAM is adding several extra flights during summer and there's no sign of refusals from ANAC/Infraero.
Unconfortable ? Who cares, the important is more flights, even without more buses to take care of remote positions.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 21):
According to IB information they have upgraded MAD-TLV to A340 because of strong number of connections from EZE, GRU, GIG to TLV. I think IB will lose a good amount of connecting pax from these markets after LY starts TLV-GRU nonstop.

Lets wait for any IB reaction (in fares or product).



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4504 posts, RR: 71
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6741 times:



Quoting El Al 001 (Reply 6):
LY009 ETD TLV 22:55 ETA GRU 07:30 (SAT, MON, WED)
LY010 ETD FRU 19:30 ETA TLV 15:35 +1 (SUN, TUE, THU)



Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 19):
At first I wondered why the aircraft would be sitting for twelve hours at GRU. Is the timing of the return flight meant to allow departure after work in GRU?

That proposed schedule is screaming for an EZE tag on. I would imagine that there is gonna be quite some EZE connecting traffic on the GRU flight anyway, so they may as well tag the destination since aircraft utilization is not gonna be an issue.

Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 19):
Since you lose a day of work with that schedule or with one that operates ten hours earlier on the return, why not return earlier and get the plane back to TLV sooner?

They could turn around to EZE and still leave GRU a couple of hours earlier and arrive GRU at an acceptable time.


User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5100 posts, RR: 55
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6712 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 21):
Good that they are looking further at other markets. I think this flight will mainly rely on O&D GRU-TLV plus a good amount of connections from EZE and GIG. These markets will probably dominate the load of the flight.

According to IB information they have upgraded MAD-TLV to A340 because of strong number of connections from EZE, GRU, GIG to TLV. I think IB will lose a good amount of connecting pax from these markets after LY starts TLV-GRU nonstop.

= I am curious. Is the J demand that strong on TLV-GRU/EZE market? I know there is significant Y demand form the elgringo.il crowd, but lots of J pax? I have no idea about this market ...

Saludos,
A.



Live, and let live.
25 Amirs : I am a bit surpried abou tthe flight numbers Usually that number would be for flights to NY LY001, LY003, LY007, LY011 all JFK LY005 LAX 1. Why hasnt
26 Hardiwv : The EZE tag-on in principle would make sense (Argentina and Brazil have substantive Jewish commmunities, I think Argentina has the 4th biggest commun
27 IAD380 : Is there an English language website with the bilateral aviation agreements between Brazil and other countries? If yes, please provide the link. Is t
28 Post contains links C010T3 : http://www.anac.gov.br/anac/sri/acordosBilaterais.asp No, there is only the version in Portuguese, but they are actually only summaries, so you could
29 Hardiwv : The bilateral allows 5th freedom rights, however, I honestly do not see how LY could get any pax is this very competitive route. Nowaydays the only a
30 C010T3 : That's all good, but it doesn't bring much. Israel would have to lobby against CONAC's resolution # 06/2007. Every new frequency to Brazil has its au
31 LipeGIG : EY has a meeting with ANAC next monday in BSB to discuss about the flight and the update on the bilateral.
32 Hardiwv : It seems that the rule became the exception. We know this resolution can be easily bypassed. I am sure it will be in the government's interest to ame
33 C010T3 : When? There hasn't been not even one exception until now. Note that the resolution concerns only new frequencies in amendments and new agreements. Be
34 IAD380 : What is CONCAC, and what does this resolution require?
35 TodaReisinger : Hi ! Did you forget the 757s or are they going to be all gone by then?? I didn't know IB was sending A340s to Israel, I always saw small A320s in TLV
36 LipeGIG : It's the national council of aviation (CONAC in portuguese). The resolution established restrictions in force at GRU airport and the bilaterals would
37 C010T3 : Yes, guidelines decided by a council of eight ministers.
38 Post contains links Hardiwv : IB is sending the A340 to TLV, mainly because of connections from EZE, GRU, and GIG. The deployment of the A340 is restricted to 2 out of the 14 week
39 C010T3 : No, the restriction exists, though it's not mentioned in the summaries of some agreements..
40 LipeGIG : There's no long term strategy in Brazil for air services. Every 3 to 6 months the government changes something.
41 Post contains links Hardiwv : As per LY delegation (including CEO Itshak Cohen) TLV-GRU 3 weekly is taken for granted. They even mention plans for the flight to operate daily in 3
42 Directorguy : What would the cargo be like on TLV-GRU and would there be any payload restrictions either way (inbound or outbound)?
43 Incitatus : This is nonsensical regulation. The bilateral process is being used to regulate airport access. If SIA wants to serve GRU at 4 pm or 4 am when the ai
44 Post contains images Anetter123 : Your question got me thinking too. I also assume they cannot fly directly over Sudan? I'm not too sure about Algeria. Taking a look at the map I post
45 Directorguy : Perhaps the 744 will fly in a direct line over to Spain, then make a sharp turn into the South Atlantic heading for South America.
46 Hardiwv : Or it could fly a direct line into Ethiopia and make a sharp turn towards the Atlantic. Are you sure they cannot fly over Sudan/Lybia/Algeria air spa
47 Post contains images Amirs : On TK, it will be A340? cant the a/c do IST - GRU nonstop? LY will need to add 1000 nm to the route in order to bypass LIBYA and other Arab countries
48 Post contains images Hardiwv : TK will not fly nonstop. See reply 3 above. TK will fly IST-DKR-GRU with 5th freedom rights DKR-GRU. They will use the A340-300 (2-class 280 seats) f
49 Amirs : How does that make more sense? its about 1000 nm more via Ethiopia/Kenya
50 Directorguy : So can an Israeli airliner fly over Morocco (I know they can't do Algeria, Libya, Sudan)? Also, we need to take into account any winds...I'll leave th
51 IAD380 : What is the source of this information? No announcement about the new route to GRU is posted on El Al's website. I can't find these flights on El Al'
52 Hardiwv : The above is subject to cofirmation by Brazilian authorities (ANAC). El Al team is today in Brasília-BSB to formally apply for the slots, timetable
53 PPVRA : Being squeezed between Sudan and Saudi Arabia doesn't sound too comforting for LY's crew. Type TLV-LIS-GRU and I think we can get a good approximatio
54 Directorguy : LOL TLV-LIS-GRU sounds about right. Makes more sense than the East Africa flightpath. Is it common for El Al to announce its proposed flightpath rout
55 IAD380 : Thank you. Is likely that ANAC would approve this request without modifications? What conditions or restrictions is ANAC likely to impose on a foreig
56 Hardiwv : I think the chances for approval of El Al route are fairly high. The only issue is regarding the 3 frequencies considering the bilateral only allows
57 Post contains links Amirs : Well the route is not a new route, it has been done in the past few years as charter flights to GIG (Rio) and SSA (Salvador). They might have to fly
58 Hardiwv : Some additional information on this route, EL AL first new route after 10 years! EL AL gave a business briefing on the new flight in São Paulo and c
59 El Al 001 : El Al got indeed the 3rd weekly flight approved. Updated - LY009 ETD TLV 21:55 ETA GRU 06:30 (SAT, MON, WED) LY010 ETD GRU 19:15 ETA TLV 15:20 +1 (SUN
60 Hardiwv : Thanks for the information. I was sure ANAC would give El Al the 3rd frequencies - see my posts above. El Al should get daily GRU frequencies by 2010
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