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Zest Airline MA-60 Crash  
User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2237 posts, RR: 9
Posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 15917 times:

Injuries are being reported after a Philippine aircraft, apparently a Xian Aircraft MA60 operated by Zest Airways, crashed at Caticlan after a domestic flight.

The aircraft is said to have been operating flight 6K865 from the Philippine capital, Manila, with around 25 on board. Caticlan is located in Aklan province, about 300km south of Manila.

More here: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-zest-ma60-crashes-on-landing.html


Kafa, čaj, šraf?
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 15842 times:

More here, http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20090111-0

User currently offlineViasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1873 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 15814 times:

I wrote this in the topic "Philippine Thread #8":

Quote:
Yes it was the Zest Air MA-60 with the registration RP-C8893... Some people in a German speaking forum talk some months ago, that the CAAP (Civil Aviation Authority Philippines) will ground the MA-60 if they will have an accident. Now we have the first accident (write-off!) with this aircraft.

Zest Air has ordered five MA-60, all were delivered but only two (RP-C8892, RP-C8893) are in service. The three newest planes are not yet in service because they are some different to the first two. That means, that the CAAP not had certificated RP-C8894, RP-C8895 and RP-C8896.

The plane does a first missed approach to Caticlan, than a second approach which was to short and the plane hit the ground very hard. Than the plane mad a 180° turn and hit a building from Zest...

If the CAAP will ground the MA-60, it could be the end of Zest Air. Not sure if they are able to operate the Airbus A320...

The Philippines are close to be on the EU-blacklist, if the CAAP not ground the MA-60 it is 100% sure, that they will be on this list. We will see...



User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6597 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 15722 times:

Well, that didn't take them long did it!!

User currently offlineUK_Dispatcher From United Arab Emirates, joined Dec 2001, 2593 posts, RR: 30
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 15631 times:

Are the YS-11s able to make a temporary comeback? Are they still around? Are there still crew current?

User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4313 posts, RR: 36
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 15532 times:

I don't think the MA-60 is particularly good in STOL operations, maybe they should have stuck to the DHC-7 instead for Caticlan.
It's not a nice thought but it would be nice if the faithful and safe YS-11 can make its comeback due to the disappointing MA-60 but unfortunately it's more likely to mean the end for Zest Airline. I flew on Asian Spirits YS-11 back in 2003 and my Filipino friends almost got a heart attack when I told them, as the airline was quite notorious, jokes were make like, you depart in Asia and return as a spirit.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4795 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 15462 times:



Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 3):
Well, that didn't take them long did it!!

No, it didn't. And it's an eye opener that this occurred before a more serious accident happens.

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 5):
it would be nice if the faithful and safe YS-11 can make its comeback due to the disappointing MA-60 but unfortunately it's more likely to mean the end for Zest Airline. I flew on Asian Spirits YS-11 back in 2003 and my Filipino friends almost got a heart attack w

It will definitely mean that people would lose their "zest" for flying them. I wonder if they'd revert to their old name if they had the chance.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineViasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1873 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 15311 times:

They were very fast to paint over the logo and the URL on the engine



The MA-60 is in front of the terminal of MPH. At the time of the accident a Cebu Pacific ATR72-500 was very close...


User currently offlineViasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1873 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 15297 times:

I'm not sure if the link works: http://gallery.me.com/kevgod/100060/_MG_0739/web.jpg

User currently offlineXtoler From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 15251 times:



Quoting Viasa (Reply 8):
I'm not sure if the link works: http://gallery.me.com/kevgod/100060/...b.jpg

It works and thanks for the pic.



EMB145 F/A, F/E, J41 F/A, F/E, because my wife clipped my wings, armchair captain
User currently offlineIcebird757 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 662 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 15222 times:

They already have 1 A320 in service and they now have a 2nd A320 both former JetBlue aircraft. N581JB and N582JB. N582JB passed through LGB on Thursday. Here is a link for some pics: http://klgb.blogspot.com


LGB....where you can watch the grass grow because the traffic is so slow.
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4795 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 15156 times:

Quite a sad sight compared to this unblemished photo just last month.....

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Maximilian Rohs



What might be an unfortunate outcome of this incident could be people who were just overcoming their misgivings about flying turboprops would now be plainly scared from riding in those.

[Edited 2009-01-11 13:55:34]


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineViasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1873 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 15128 times:



Quoting Icebird757 (Reply 10):
They already have 1 A320 in service and they now have a 2nd A320 both former JetBlue aircraft.

Both A320 are in the Philippines, but they are not in service at the moment.

More pictures:



The cockpit section is in the area of Zest Air's departure lounge (restaurant & souvenirshop) - it is east to the terminal.


User currently offlineTeneriffe77 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 468 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 14661 times:

try these links
http://avherald.com/h?article=4132f16e&opt=0
http://news.qq.com/a/20090111/000808.htm


User currently offlineDynamo12 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 14618 times:

In the US are you allowed to repaint aircraft so quickly? How does repainting the aircraft to remove logo's etc help a crash investigation? it would seem that it might cover up debris / burn and other external marks on the plane.

User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2914 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 14576 times:



Quoting Dynamo12 (Reply 15):
How does repainting the aircraft to remove logo's etc help a crash investigation?

It's less fo helping the crash investigation and more of saving what's left of the airline's brand name. You don't want to be taxiing past a burned out hulk and think "Hey, that's the name of the airline I'm flying on".

Kinda silly, but it might help.



The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineAussie_ From Australia, joined Dec 2000, 1766 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 14394 times:

It has no relevance whatsoever to the safety of the aircraft, but I flew 3 sectors on MA-60s with Lao Airlines and was impressed how comfortable they were from a pax perspective. To be honest I expected a very basic aircraft, but the interior was very nice, in fact nicer than the ATR-72 I flew from the same airline!

User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 13735 times:



Quoting Aussie_ (Reply 16):
It has no relevance whatsoever to the safety of the aircraft, but I flew 3 sectors on MA-60s with Lao Airlines and was impressed how comfortable they were from a pax perspective. To be honest I expected a very basic aircraft, but the interior was very nice, in fact nicer than the ATR-72 I flew from the same airline!

Yeah. Count your blessings that you're sitting there writing all that.  sarcastic 


User currently offlineIcebird757 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 662 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 13222 times:



Quoting Viasa (Reply 12):
Both A320 are in the Philippines, but they are not in service at the moment.

That is weird because on Thursday the Zest Air rep onboard the A320 said that the first one was in service for 3 days.



LGB....where you can watch the grass grow because the traffic is so slow.
User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1919 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 13129 times:

Aren't we judging a little to soon that the problem is the MA-60? The articles above are saying that the plane was landing in very windy weather. What if that was the problem? Or that the pilot made an error?

Not everything Chinese is bad...

Cheers!  wave 



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently offlineSIBILLE From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 12846 times:



Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 19):
Aren't we judging a little to soon that the problem is the MA-60? The articles above are saying that the plane was landing in very windy weather. What if that was the problem? Or that the pilot made an error?

Agree with you. It was the second time they tried to land and it seems they didn' report any technical problem.... Each time a Russian or Chineese aircraft crash, most of the people say "it's because of the aircraft". At least, wait for the final report but it must be a bad thing for the MA-60 and Zest  Sad

I've flown both Lao Airlines and Merpati MA-60 and it was a confortable aircraft.......

Most important is nobody was killed.


User currently offlineFlyHigh@Tom From India, joined Sep 2001, 392 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 12716 times:



Quoting TDubJFK (Reply 17):

Are we not coming to conclusions too fast? Yes the MA 60 is Chinesse made. But is it not too soon to blame it on the type. a Little bit of info for the folks here. Zest Air (formerly Asian Spirit) was operating a wide range of aircraf types from the YS-11, BAE 146, DHC -7, CN 235 and Let410s...Typically the DHC-7 was used on the Caticlan route which. The approach and landing into Caticlan is very challenging. You have a road, followed by a fence and then the runway threshold. Something like SXM for the Philippines. A shot of a DHC 7 on short finals into Caticlan.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Asian...rit/De-Havilland-Canada/1343376/L/

As can be seen the margin for error is a couple of feet only. At the end of R/W 06 is a hill which means only R/W 06 can be used for landings.


At the time of this accident winds were gusting to 50 kts. The MA60 is a new type in the airline and naturally all pilots are low timers on type! I could imagine how an approach can be misjudged easily on the new aircraft type.

I in many ways tend to see the similarities between this crash and the one in Indonesia involving a Dornier 328 back in November,

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-investigators-prepare-report.html

Now in the Indonesia case also the aircraft D328 was a new type bieng operated by the airline and the pilot undershot the approach.

My sympathies lie with the Pax and the crew in both cases.


User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 12381 times:



Quoting Viasa (Reply 2):
Some people in a German speaking forum talk some months ago, that the CAAP (Civil Aviation Authority Philippines) will ground the MA-60 if they will have an accident. Now we have the first accident (write-off!) with this aircraft.

Even if the cause of the accident is found not to be related to a failure with the aircraft? I think if the cause is found to be pilot error and the CAAP try to ground the type, they would face massive lawsuits from both operator and maufacturer

Quoting Viasa (Reply 2):
If the CAAP will ground the MA-60, it could be the end of Zest Air. Not sure if they are able to operate the Airbus A320...

The Philippines are close to be on the EU-blacklist, if the CAAP not ground the MA-60 it is 100% sure, that they will be on this list. We will see...

Statements like that if made by the CAAP would surely bring undue influence on the accident investigation.


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