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ATR Descent Picture - Fake?  
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2575 posts, RR: 31
Posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 18429 times:

Hey all,

I just received this via email. The email claims that this pic was taken in an ATR during final descent into some unknown airport.

I believe this is a good Photoshop job, am I correct?




Saludos,
Luis

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGimliGlider From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 18418 times:

I believe this is just the result of the way a number of (usually) cell phone cameras take pictures. They scan from side to side or top to bottom instead of exposing all at once. You can see the same effect in some old film pictures of running props.


"You could attach that to your house and still go 0-60 in 5 seconds..."
User currently offlineMrSkyGuy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 18405 times:

Actually no, it's a common sight from inside the aircraft when taken with a digital camera. I took a similar photo out of the left side of a SkyWest EMB-120 last year and got a very similar prop-flex illusion as well.

Not a fake. A most unusual phenomenon yes, but also authentic.



"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
User currently offlineMIgAiR54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1925 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 18386 times:

FAKE, absolutely.

You can even see a 5th blade in the edge of the window. And 72-200 has 4 blades and 72-500 has 6. no one has 5.


User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2177 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 18400 times:

If I ever look out a window and see that with my own eyes I'm going for the liquor cart.

User currently offlineMrSkyGuy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 18379 times:



Quoting MIgAiR54 (Reply 3):
FAKE, absolutely.

You can even see a 5th blade in the edge of the window. And 72-200 has 4 blades and 72-500 has 6. no one has 5.

For goodness sakes, Mig. It's not a fake--it's an illusion captured with digital cameras on high speed propellers.



"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
User currently offlineBwest From Belgium, joined Jul 2006, 1380 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 18263 times:



Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 4):
If I ever look out a window and see that with my own eyes I'm going for the liquor cart.

 Smile

I think I'll join you in that case  Wink



I love my Airport Job! :)
User currently offlineOOSLC From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 18248 times:

Here's one that I took when the props are spinning down.

Big version: Width: 800 Height: 600 File size: 118kb


User currently offlineMrSkyGuy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 18233 times:



Quoting Bwest (Reply 6):
I think I'll join you in that case Wink

Drink up! You will if you look through the lens of your digital camera (or camera phone).  Wink



"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
User currently offlineANITIX87 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 3309 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 18193 times:
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This is crazy! Everyone says it's real and that it's the result of digital camera, and OOSLC showed proof, but WHY does it happen?? And what settings would I need to try and replicate it? There's a lot of props coming into ABE where I am, and it would be cool to get this type of image of one as it goes by me.

TIS



www.stellaryear.com: Canon EOS 50D, Canon EOS 5DMkII, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 24-70 2.8L II, Canon 100mm 2.8L, Canon 100-4
User currently offlineMrSkyGuy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 18180 times:



Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 9):
his is crazy! Everyone says it's real and that it's the result of digital camera, and OOSLC showed proof, but WHY does it happen?? And what settings would I need to try and replicate it? There's a lot of props coming into ABE where I am, and it would be cool to get this type of image of one as it goes by me.

First, you'll need to be very close to the prop (which is why its most common from inside the cabin). Second, you'll need a cheap digital camera which takes side to side or top-bottom scan photos (like a camera phone) to capture the illusion.

I don't know what settings you'd need to make on your DSLR to capture this effect (or if it's even possible on such sophisticated equipment).



"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
User currently offlineDTW757 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1595 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 18053 times:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9R6bWM21iA

Here is an interesting view of the ATR prop taken on takeoff with a digital camera. The prop appears to spin one direction then reverse completely and then come to a stop.



721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,346,388,146,CR2,7,
User currently offlineDavidkunzVIE From Austria, joined Mar 2007, 431 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 18014 times:



Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 4):
If I ever look out a window and see that with my own eyes I'm going for the liquor cart.

If I ever see that, I'll swear to god I'll never go for the liqueor cart again!



DH3 DH4 CR1 CR2 CR7 CR9 F70 732 733 734 73G 738 752 762 763 772 742 743 319 320 321 333 343
User currently offlineSmcmac32msn From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 18000 times:



Quoting MIgAiR54 (Reply 3):
FAKE, absolutely.

FAKE, absolutely..... NOT! Watch the video and check out some other photos on this site. Its no where close to fake.



Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4725 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 18000 times:



Quoting MrSkyGuy (Reply 10):

I don't know what settings you'd need to make on your DSLR to capture this effect (or if it's even possible on such sophisticated equipment).

It is not.



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 17977 times:

No camera expert but... has has to do with the frames per second of the camera and the rpms of the prop and the phase of the two.... Anyone that watches NASCAR will remember when Goodyear went to yellow lettering on the tires a few years back..? That is why. Yellow for some reason photographs better in these conditions. I guess it also has to do with the color spectrum.


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 17948 times:



Quoting MIgAiR54 (Reply 3):

You can clearly see that the 4 are on the hub. The "fifth" is most likely a reflection of one of the blades.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinePhoenix9 From Canada, joined Aug 2007, 2546 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 17904 times:



Quoting DTW757 (Reply 11):
Here is an interesting view of the ATR prop taken on takeoff with a digital camera

Talk about turning off electronics during takeoff  duck 

Nice video though!



Life only makes sense when you look at it backwards.
User currently offlineMirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7444 posts, RR: 62
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 17677 times:
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Great thread.

Not fake. Though I am surpised no one mentioned the Flexible Rubber Propeller Program that they experimented with. Fortunately, it never took off.



Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
User currently offlineCmoltay From Turkey, joined Jun 2007, 132 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 17335 times:



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 18):
Great thread.

Not fake. Though I am surpised no one mentioned the Flexible Rubber Propeller Program that they experimented with. Fortunately, it never took off.

The program did take off... It is just that the prototype plane couldn't...


User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6848 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 17335 times:



Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 9):
but WHY does it happen??

Looking at the ATR photo, this would happen if the camera scanned left to right and the prop rotated anticlockwise, as seen.

I'll try and explain without pictures.

Considering the leftmost blade, as seen, after the first vertical scan is taken by the camera, the prop rotates anticlockwise slightly, so by the time the next scan is taken the prop has moved down a bit and, after successve scans, the blade has moved down a lot. So in the time it takes the camera to scan the distance from the blade tip pointing "north west" to the hub the propeller has rotated so the blade root is pointing "south west." This is what makes the blade appear curved.

Now, because the camera is scanning in the same direction as the blade is moving under the wing, and probably at the same rate, it seems that there is no blade because there was no blade in line with the bit of the image being scanned.

The mysterious 5th blade on the right appears because, as above, the blade is rotating in the same direction as the scanning until the blade is pointing "east" when it starts to go in the opposite direction and then part of the blade is in line with the scanned part of the image.


This reminds me of a tv program about some strange flying creatures that were observed on video and people were convinced that these were new animals when in fact it was a video scanning issue; in the time the video frame had scanned, the animal, a flying insect, had moved and its wing tips had traced out a wavy shape. The animals looked, on video, like some sort of flying tube with long wavy wings along the side.



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineBooDog From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 17301 times:

Here's another example of the illusion, taken at a different angle.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=vlZvBIgTE68&feature=related



B1B - best looking aircraft ever.
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6903 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 17178 times:



Quoting Oly720man (Reply 20):
this would happen if the camera scanned left to right and the prop rotated anticlockwise

Except the image is inverted, so-- right to left.


User currently offlineFlyboy2001 From Canada, joined May 2005, 186 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 16659 times:

Ok, from a photographer's perspective, I've done this with both film and digital SLRs. When I take a photo of a propeller blade, my shutter is open for a certain amount of time... I'll arbitrarily use a shutter speed of 1/250th of a second here. During this time, the prop's tip is traveling faster and moving a greater distance than at the hub, so it will actually trace a larger piece of the circle than the rest of the prop... result? An apparently bent propeller on an in-flight aircraft. Add to this the funky ways cell phone cameras scan images and you can have some fun!

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 18):
Though I am surpised no one mentioned the Flexible Rubber Propeller Program that they experimented with. Fortunately, it never took off.

You took the words right out of my mouth!  Smile Or maybe the prop blades needed that new additive "Fly-agra"!



And you... Revolution, or just resistance?
User currently offlineBartonsayswhat From Canada, joined Oct 2007, 436 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 13571 times:

good comments by everyone. just reading some of the coments on the youtube videos makes me thankful for us being civilized. even though every seccond discussion is about DC-9s or AF's dirty planes, we atleast do it civilized

25 Timz : The props angular velocity is of course constant along its length. A pic exposed with a leaf shutter will show a prop blade blurred over a sector of
26 Soon7x7 : Only on a/net can you see something like this...I never even knew this effect existed!
27 Flanker : this is not a fake picture. i have taken pictures like this on regular Cessna while flying. happens all the time.
28 Post contains links FLY2HMO : Here's another interesting illusion: http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=EDTRMauSHSo
29 Aer Lingus : You're spot on! Correct, this is why I don't like taking pics of props. Its difficult to get things right. Either the props blades are frozen or ther
30 Post contains links MEA-707 : very interesting bended prop blades effect of an Il-18, see http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=dv5gvKaAoYk&feature=related
31 Post contains images Lemmy : You can see the same effect in finish-line photo systems, which pass a length of film across a slit. So the horizontal axis of the film is read as tim
32 Post contains links DocLightning : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlZvBIgTE68&feature=related This illustrates the effect here much better.
33 Post contains links Spacecadet : The iPhone does some interesting things to propellers: http://www.flickr.com/photos/geog/2343283410/ Even the shadows! http://www.flickr.com/photos/am
34 Post contains links SpeedBirdA380 : Is there anyone that can explain why this happens? Its a GE-90 starting up and the fan blades seem to be changing direction and coming to a stop throu
35 Spacecadet : That's simpler to explain - the frequency of the blades turning is initially slower than the frame rate of the camera. At a certain point it matches
36 NA : Funny effect, I never noticed that. I have to check my pictures of Props, oddly I cant remember to have seen it on thousands of pics before.
37 SpeedBirdA380 : [quote=Spacecadet Reply 35[/quote] Thanks very much for the explanation.
38 Brilondon : If i see this out of the window it is probably because of the liquor cart.
39 Lemmy : It's pretty simple, actually. Take a look at the bike race picture I posted above. Since the film is being passed behind a vertical slit, each point
40 Spacecadet : I'm gonna need some kind of diagram or something. I went to film school but I can't get my head around this. I think the way your finish line system
41 MrSkyGuy : You won't unless you are using a relatively low quality side-to-side or top-to-bottom/bottom-to-top digital camera like the camera built in to your c
42 Post contains links and images Mandala499 : Here's more... The side that has the least number of props is moving in the direction of the "linescan"... Photos not taken by me... As you can see fr
43 Post contains links and images Oly720man : It's not a frame, it's a vertical slice of a frame. To demonstrate the effect with a propeller.... Have you got a reasonably sized clock with a secon
44 PHKLM : RR for this brilliance piece of entertainment!
45 Spacecadet : Yes, I understand that. What this doesn't explain is why this doesn't happen to all the propeller blades equally. In other words, all the blades are
46 Timz : You've confused two different meanings of "in the same direction". An object moving in a circle isn't actually moving in the same direction.
47 Tdscanuck : Because the camera is scanning in a straight line (either veritcal or horizontal), while the prop is going in a circle. The camera only "sees" the ve
48 Pilotboi : They are spinning the same direction yes, but they are not FACING the same direction. Some are up, some are down, some are left, some are right, etc.
49 Post contains links and images AAmd11 : Q400, shot taken by me with my LG mobile phone with 3.2 mpix camera. The camera doesn't like high speed spinning, really.
50 Timz : Say you're photographing a second hand on a clockface with a camera that takes exactly 30 seconds to scan the diameter of the clock, at a uniform spee
51 Pilotboi : While explaining this to a friend, he reminded me of a perfect example! (For those who still don't get it) The cameras that take these pictures are si
52 Post contains links and images Rwessel : Actually that's not true. A typical film shutter has two curtains, and the move across the frame at a fair clip, but staggered a certain amount in ti
53 TFFIP : Maybe my mother in law isnt so bad after all. I should visit one time in a while and stop just waiting to see the photos when mrs. come home from a vi
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