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Virgin Postpones Orders For New Planes  
User currently offlineFcogafa From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 770 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 15876 times:

An interview published in the Times states that Virgin has postponed orders for new planes. What is this referring to? I had heard rumours that BA have acquired Virgins A380 positions.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...ers_and_shakers/article5487948.ece

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineStarGuy From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 15734 times:

I assume they are referring to the deferred A346 and A380's which is seriously old news. The 787 that are on order aren't likely to arrive until at least 2013 anyway, by which time Virgin will need to think about replacing older aircraft in the fleet.

User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3374 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 15641 times:

When I first started posting on here it seemed that everyone really had it in for VS over their fleet policy, but now I can see why!

They had A346s and A380s on order,

- they defferred the remaining A346s
- they defferred the A380s
- they ordered 787s
- they were looking at more A380s
- they were looking for alternatives to the 787
- they're not ordering anything for the moment

I was wondering if they were going to swap their A346 places for a few A330s as interim lift but this look like it isn't happening now.


User currently offlineAPYu From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 831 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 15641 times:



Quoting Fcogafa (Thread starter):
An interview published in the Times states that Virgin has postponed orders for new planes

This may refer to the planned announcement for the replacement of the LGW / MAN 747 fleet for the leisure routes. They were due to make an announcement sometime on what would replace these high density aircraft used on the traditional holiday routes.



We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
User currently offlineStarGuy From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 15543 times:



Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 2):
When I first started posting on here it seemed that everyone really had it in for VS over their fleet policy, but now I can see why!

To be fair, yes they postponed the arrival of A346's that were due to arrive that year and expand not replace the fleet, they made the right decision in view of the fact that we are going through one of the worst slowdowns in the industry. The order for 787's was for aircraft that would be arriving for years and would be initially replacing older aircraft. So all in all in seems pretty sensible for them to have made these decisions, however erratic they may have seemed at the time.


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3374 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 15390 times:



Quoting StarGuy (Reply 4):
To be fair, yes they postponed the arrival of A346's that were due to arrive that year and expand not replace the fleet, they made the right decision in view of the fact that we are going through one of the worst slowdowns in the industry. The order for 787's was for aircraft that would be arriving for years and would be initially replacing older aircraft. So all in all in seems pretty sensible for them to have made these decisions, however erratic they may have seemed at the time.

True, I expect that the A346s are never going to be delivered and I'm not so sure about the A380. A single fleet of 787s sounds good to me. How many 744s do they have at LGW?


User currently offlineBuzzaway From Belgium, joined Dec 2007, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 14724 times:



Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 5):
A single fleet of 787s sounds good to me

That would be some serious downsizing! the A343's can be replaced by 787's but what about the 744's and A346's?


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3374 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 14640 times:



Quoting Buzzaway (Reply 6):

That would be some serious downsizing! the A343's can be replaced by 787's but what about the 744's and A346's?

I was thinking along the lines of a long-haul loco will all of the planes the same - send 2 or 4 787s a day to Florida in the summer and switch them to other destinations in the winter. But then that was Boeing's plan for the 787 in the first place.


User currently offlineBrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4118 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 14602 times:

Would this also have to do with state of the economy as a whole and they are just looking at different alternatives?


Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 14372 times:



Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 7):
I was thinking along the lines of a long-haul loco will all of the planes the same - send 2 or 4 787s a day to Florida in the summer and switch them to other destinations in the winter. But then that was Boeing's plan for the 787 in the first place.

Not the best way to utilize the valuable slots at Heathrow and Gatwick!



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlinePanam330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2669 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11283 times:



Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 7):
send 2 or 4 787s a day to Florida in the summer

Isn't summer high season for Europeans? That would be backwards. They fly multiple daily 747s to MCO for a reason.


User currently offlineWilld From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 237 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10907 times:

The 346's were defered as the airline decided to stop expanding a couple of years back. As others have said this was a very sensible move given todays climate. It is worth noting that when the 346's arrived the VS fleet nearly doubled over night. The expansion of the airline in terms of the number of seats was large.

The 380's were defered when Airbus kept announcing big delays on the aircraft. After the teething troubles VS had with the 346, I think they decided a later delivery year would be better as any troubles would be ironed out.

The 787's have been ordered to open up markets such as SEA, GRU and even PER.

The rumours about a 2nd 380 order or an order for the 748 were because about 18 months ago, VS put out a tender for the replacement for its LGW based 744's. VS then decided to renew the leases on the LGW based 744's and not invest in any new aircraft.

To be honest, when you get the full picture, the VS fleet policy does not seem that strange.


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3374 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10662 times:

Ok, I bow down to the rest of you with more knowledge - I'd forgot about the slots at LHR!

User currently onlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6709 posts, RR: 32
Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10410 times:



Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 9):
Not the best way to utilize the valuable slots at Heathrow and Gatwick!

The value of the slots at LHR and LGW may decline with the third Heathrow runway. Moreover, I expect that the LHR-U.S.A. routes which had been Virgin Atlantic's core business have become less profitable with the ending of the Bermuda II restrictions on LHR service.


User currently offlineHNL-Jack From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 818 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10377 times:



Quoting Willd (Reply 11):
he 787's have been ordered to open up markets such as SEA, GRU and even PER.

Sir Branson has also suggested LHR - HNL.



Grew up in the business and continued the family tradition.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10280 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Willd (Reply 11):
The 787's have been ordered to open up markets such as SEA, GRU and even PER.

GRU isn't a wish, it's GIG.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10198 times:



Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 2):
I was wondering if they were going to swap their A346 places for a few A330s as interim lift but this look like it isn't happening now.

I think taking A330-300s rather than A340-600s would be a good move.

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 5):
I expect that the A346s are never going to be delivered and I'm not so sure about the A380.

I don't expect either will ever be delivered. Airbus should be working on converting those orders to a mix of A330s and A350s to counter the 787.


User currently offlineBuzzaway From Belgium, joined Dec 2007, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9852 times:



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 16):
Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 5):
I expect that the A346s are never going to be delivered and I'm not so sure about the A380.

I don't expect either will ever be delivered. Airbus should be working on converting those orders to a mix of A330s and A350s to counter the 787.

Again some serious downsizing... This recession isn't going to last forever (I hope!).
They will start expanding again in a few years time, and since more flights are no option at LHR, A380's are the only thing possible, since the 744's are getting older and older... (unless you see them cancelling A380's and ordering 748's, but that won't happen, they made their choice...)


User currently offlineWunalaYann From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2839 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9152 times:



Quoting ScottB (Reply 13):
The value of the slots at LHR and LGW may decline with the third Heathrow runway.

Which, if we are to believe posters who lament Britain's inability to drive large infrastructure projects on time and on budget, will not be for another 10 years. By which time VS may either:

1) not exist anymore (merger, bankruptcy, split-up, etc.)
2) change its business plan radically (new destinations/more-less frequencies/new product, etc.),
3) require some serious injection of new blood in its fleet.

I would hope for VS's sake that they are not pinning their business strategy solely on the possible/maybe/we'll see/of course/vital/unfeasible/ooops, election time, sorry/more studies needed/it's a go, go, go/we've just found a unique variety of lemmings living underneath what would be the new alignment and the loss of wildlife is simply untolerable/oil back up to $170bbl/Boeing just went bankrupt, all orders are cancelled/etc. third runway at LHR.

 Smile


User currently offlineUALMMFlyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6484 times:

In this market, financing for capital expenditure is tough. Although bailout money from various goverments are suppose to provide liquidity to the market, but banks and leasing companies are not jumping in to finance major deal as before. For any airlines that want to place order, they'd better have financing lined up and liqudity in place.....this is just the financing side in addition to the issue of falling passenger demand as some of already pointed out in earlier posts.


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