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Sunwing About To Go Bust?  
User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2253 posts, RR: 12
Posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 19587 times:

Rumor has it that Sunwing Airlines missed a payroll recently. I also heard on the radio today that if you book by January 23rd to select destinations, you get the second ticket 50% off.

All signs that the airline needs cash now ! Not looking too good !

Thenoflyzone


us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1721 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 19564 times:

Interesting....maybe they hedged on their fuel the wrong way!!!

In any event, there's enough supply to down south and to full the void if this turns out to be the case. One thing though, they offer really cheap fares within Canada during the summer!!!!


User currently offlineYXD172 From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 449 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 19523 times:



Quoting Thenoflyzone (Thread starter):
t if you book by January 23rd to select destinations, you get the second ticket 50% off.

The discounts aren't anything new, Sunwing's always got something. They're a charter airline, and last minute seats are always on sale.

Where did you hear that rumor from?

Jon



Radial engines don't leak oil, they are just marking their territory!
User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2127 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 19521 times:



Quoting YXD172 (Reply 2):
Where did you hear that rumor from?

You cut the quote off too early to help answer your own question:

Quoting Thenoflyzone (Thread starter):
I also heard on the radio today that if you book by January 23rd to select destinations, you get the second ticket 50% off.




The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineCXH From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 19403 times:

Threepoint: I think YXD172 is asking about the original's poster's rumour of a missed payroll.

I googled the web a bit and seems rumours of Sunwing Airlines troubles were on PPrune last November. So probably this is just a recycled rumour.

However, being privately held and/or not owned by a public European parent means nobody really knows what's going on.



I've seen the future, I can't afford it. - Martin Fry
User currently offlineFlyboy7974 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 19347 times:

Discounts, as already mentioned, are nothing new and as old as the airline. I've been subscribed to their email announcements and newsletter since their beginning and I get one a week at least w diff promos and fare offerings.

User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2253 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 19243 times:



Quoting YXD172 (Reply 2):
Where did you hear that rumor from?

I have my sources. Not ready to disclose that information.

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineBWIA330 From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 919 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 19155 times:

Very strange indeed. I really hope everything is well with Sunwing because the Canadian market does not need another airline to go out of business.

Regards

BWIA330


User currently offlineYXD172 From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 449 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 19049 times:



Quoting CXH (Reply 4):
Threepoint: I think YXD172 is asking about the original's poster's rumour of a missed payroll.

Yep.

I hope that this rumor isn't true, Sunwing's service was great when I flew with them (at least compared to AC / WS).

Jon



Radial engines don't leak oil, they are just marking their territory!
User currently offlineYXXMIKE From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 18907 times:

I have heard through the grapevine that they won't be doing any of the work in Europe next summer as they haven't been able to secure any contracts. That may have something to do with the rumor, I personally don't believe they will be going down anytime soon. Remember, the market has fallen out in Canada but there is still a fair amount of travel money available for those first generation of baby boomers who are now retiring and didn't loose all of their money on the stock market. Lean year ahead for Sunwing? Yes, going to bankrupt, I doubt it. Just my 2 cents!

User currently offlineDuckRedbeard From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 18450 times:

And Delta TOC just finished painting a 737 for them...

User currently offlineCPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4773 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 18335 times:



Quoting Thenoflyzone (Thread starter):
Rumor has it that Sunwing Airlines missed a payroll recently. I also heard on the radio today that if you book by January 23rd to select destinations, you get the second ticket 50% off.

I hope it's not true, but sickening if it is. Zoom had the "Kids Fly Free" promotion just before they went belly up.


User currently offlineIrobertson From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 601 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 18115 times:



Quoting Thenoflyzone (Thread starter):
I also heard on the radio today that if you book by January 23rd to select destinations, you get the second ticket 50% off.

This is one of their normal advertising campaigns, they've been doing it for years. It's nothing new.

Sunwing is a great airline, very good service and great staff. They also serve a lot of airports that normally don't get mainline service to Toronto, though usually only seasonally (eg. Sydney, NS to Toronto). I did enjoy their Halifax - London Ontario - Vancouver summer service a few years ago and I wish they'd bring it back!

I'm confident they're going to ride things out okay.


User currently offlineMattRB From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1624 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 18090 times:



Quoting Thenoflyzone (Thread starter):
Rumor has it that Sunwing Airlines missed a payroll recently.

Last post (currently) in this thread says they haven't.



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
User currently offlineGmonney From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2159 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 18072 times:

Would you not think that if an airline is in trouble they will not make the news public. We just booked our holiday through a travel agent to make sure we were protected. If there was any negative press about Sunwing, no one would book anything... then they would really go into the toilet. I am not sure if it will happen but someone will not survive this economic market... it might mean that there needs to be a strong restructuring a head..... I know that the contracts for this season were agreed upon when the Canadian market was in a lot better shape, so they having to discount vacations this year will impact to a certain extent, to how much.... only the papers and media will tell,

Grant



Drive it like you stole it!
User currently offlineVoyager747 From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 17334 times:

Lets hope it is not like when Jets Go went bust.They were selling tickets till the last minute.Same with Zoom, I think the airlines wont say anything so they can get people to fly with them.

If this rumor is going around now, I suggest that people who have tickets for Sunwing have a plan B just in case the airline dose go bust.

Good luck to Sunwing


User currently offlineYYZYYT From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 924 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 16908 times:



Quoting Voyager747 (Reply 15):
Lets hope it is not like when Jets Go went bust.They were selling tickets till the last minute.Same with Zoom, I think the airlines wont say anything so they can get people to fly with them.

more than just that, did they not announce two new routes within a few days of the bust?

Seriously, if they do, let's hope they go like Canjet did when ceasing scheudled service (advance notice, during a moderately busy period, and with refunds offered) and not like Jetsgo (who ceased operations on the Friday before March break).


User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2253 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 16819 times:

Quoting MattRB (Reply 13):

Last post (currently) in this thread says they haven't.


Could be. I just said it's a rumor.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2009-01-15 11:30:56]


us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineChinook747 From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 16097 times:



Quoting BWIA330 (Reply 7):
Very strange indeed. I really hope everything is well with Sunwing because the Canadian market does not need another airline to go out of business.

...I am a travel agent and will not book them. All companies are great in good times..but a measure of a good company is when booking go wrong and how they deal with it. I am a travel agent and Sunwing is absolutely the worst out there when it comes time to dealing with any issues or complaints..I will not book them anymore..there are other companies out there who offer the same product and I know my clients will be well taken care of.


User currently offlineNaritaflyer From Japan, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 549 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 15912 times:



Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 17):
Could be. I just said it's a rumor.

Thenoflyzone

I think you just made up that rumour. Next time keep it to yourself until you can back it up.


User currently offlineAirman99o From Canada, joined Aug 1999, 975 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 15850 times:

The Canadian Market is over saturated now as it is. Too many seats not enough passengers to fill them. Would hate to see people out of work, as the way things are out there now a days, it would be hard to find work.
We are all trying to figure out how they at Sunwing are doing it. Rock Bottom prices, fly now pay later... Jetsgo ring a bell??? Convinced they have a money printing machine in the back office at 27 Fasken drive. Something isn't adding up.

Just my two cents worth.

Airman99o



Safety is Everyones Responsibility.
User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2196 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 15741 times:

Sunwing has big business here in YHZ. If they were to shut down it would be a huge disappointment...


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2253 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 15321 times:

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 19):
I think you just made up that rumour. Next time keep it to yourself until you can back it up.

So now you can read minds ? I heard the rumor from 2 separate sources, and i choose to believe them. Whatever you do is up to you. Nothing or no one at this point has proven that Sunwing hasn't missed a payroll.

As for me keeping my mouth shut, last i heard, Canada is a free country.......

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2009-01-17 07:12:07]


us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineABQopsHP From United States of America, joined May 2006, 848 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 15244 times:

Is this another culling of the Canadien charter market? Is there an oversupply of seats from/to Canada? Namely to sunny destinations in the winter time. I would hate to see another company go bust.
JD CRPXE



A line is evidence that other people exist.
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4952 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 15210 times:

Whatver Sunwing's financial issues, they have grown way too fast way too soon. It is to the point where they are offering charter flights from tertiary airports in Quebec and Ontario to Cuba/Dominican Republic...is this a case of spreading themselves too thin, by opening all sorts of airport/associated station costs?

User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4762 posts, RR: 43
Reply 25, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 15124 times:



Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 22):
So now you can read minds ? I heard the rumor from 2 separate sources, and i choose to believe them.

I just called a buddy of mine, B737 Captain, and it is not true. They have not missed payroll.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineGmonney From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2159 posts, RR: 20
Reply 26, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 14936 times:

I think we all hope they are and will be alright... we have chosed to fly with Transat for this holiday. Nolitours offered a great deal to the place we want to go and Sunwing wasn't even close, but Nolitours just offers a few seats on random days and we got the last seats/room it looked like when the travel agent booked. That being said, Sunwing has a great sked down to Varadero, they leave early in the morning to go down and leave late the next week to come home.

I have a buddy who works for Sunwing, I will ask him how things are going... I am sure they are fine, but I really hope they are selling seats as they have budgeted. On a side note, is Canjet still flying for the charter companies? If so, anyone know the number of aircrafts and total number of seats that operate on a weekly basis down south... would be an interesting number to come up with?

Grant



Drive it like you stole it!
User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2253 posts, RR: 12
Reply 27, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 14636 times:



Quoting Gmonney (Reply 26):
On a side note, is Canjet still flying for the charter companies? If so, anyone know the number of aircrafts and total number of seats that operate on a weekly basis down south... would be an interesting number to come up with?

Canjet is still flying. They have 1 B733 and 5 B738 dedicated to charter operations down south during the winter.

Don't know about the amount of seats, but don't expect too much with only 6 aircraft in the fleet.

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineHeathrow From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 967 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 14538 times:

I think if anything happens they'll follow C6 and do just charter

User currently offlineBWIA330 From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 919 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 14487 times:



Quoting Heathrow (Reply 28):

Hey, they already do charter as they are a charter airline providing air services for Sunwing Vacations.

Regards


User currently offlineRobsaw From Canada, joined Dec 2008, 227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14017 times:



Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 22):
So now you can read minds ? I heard the rumor from 2 separate sources, and i choose to believe them. Whatever you do is up to you. Nothing or no one at this point has proven that Sunwing hasn't missed a payroll.

You "believe" a rumour?!? A rumour is by definition highly suspect until actual evidence is provided.

Do you really think a company missing a payroll wouldn't trigger a huge media storm and potential immediate trip into bankruptcy protection since every other creditor would treat that company as insolvent?

Those proposing rumours need to provide the proof of its accuracy; it is not to others to prove a rumour is false. However, the logic I provided above is sufficient evidence that they haven't missed a payroll.


User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2253 posts, RR: 12
Reply 31, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 13939 times:



Quoting Robsaw (Reply 30):
You "believe" a rumour?!? A rumour is by definition highly suspect until actual evidence is provided.

Do you really think a company missing a payroll wouldn't trigger a huge media storm and potential immediate trip into bankruptcy protection since every other creditor would treat that company as insolvent?

Those proposing rumours need to provide the proof of its accuracy; it is not to others to prove a rumour is false. However, the logic I provided above is sufficient evidence that they haven't missed a payroll.

All good points, but sorry, you're logic doesn't prove they haven't missed a payroll ! The media needs proof in order to come up with a story on Sunwing, and since WG is a private company, they need more than just rumor. This isn't a tabloid in Hollywood we are talking about ! No professional media company would start a news topic on Sunwing based on a rumor. Luckily enough, airliners.net is the perfect place for a person like me to post these kinds of rumors, which i did, in order to see if anyone else had maybe heard the same thing, or even better, had an insider scoop on it.

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineRobsaw From Canada, joined Dec 2008, 227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (5 years 3 months 15 hours ago) and read 13699 times:



Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 31):
Luckily enough, airliners.net is the perfect place for a person like me to post these kinds of rumors, which i did, in order to see if anyone else had maybe heard the same thing, or even better, had an insider scoop on it.

You missed my point in that the rumour monger has to offer proof. You have offered none, yet you believe. The case against the rumour is manifold times more than the case for it. There is not even a logical basis to believe it where there is a logical basis to disbelieve it.

If you want to offer a rumour and leave it open for evidence, fine. But you are pressing it as true and thereby potentially slandering Sunwing.


User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2253 posts, RR: 12
Reply 33, posted (5 years 3 months 6 hours ago) and read 13524 times:

I just got the following e-mail from a Sunwing captain.

"Sunwing has not missed payroll.

Roughly 3/4 of all seats to our numerous destinations were presold by November of this year.

I have not personally flown a single southbound trip this winter that had less than 166 paying pax... most flights are full (189 happy souls)

Sunwing does not hedge fuel and is currently enjoying enhanced earnings as a result.

Sunwing's parent company Red Seal Vacations has been in business since 1983. The CEO of the company has recently stated that we are in good financial shape with plenty of cash to weather any storm. Profits come primarily from package vacation sales.

Discount deals have always been and always will be a part of the companies business model. The 50% off deal recently offered is nothing new.

Sunwing's business model is such that the airline needs only to pay for itself. As as long as it is cheaper (in terms of cost to get their vacation customers to their destinations) to fly their own airplanes as opposed to using other charter operators (SkyService, WestJet, AirTransat), the airline will continue to operate. So far, the airline itself has exceeded financial expectations by generating a reasonable profit.

Our fly now pay later program is underwritten by DCR Finance Corp. with their TruCash brand. Sunwing gets paid immediately by the finance company. Any debt incurred by a customer to fly with Sunwing is held by the financer... not Sunwing.

When Excel Airways went out of business last summer, our deployed pilots returned early making for a very light schedule for the last half of Summer 2008. Despite that, every pilot was paid his or her full salary.

Prospects for next summer are many but Sunwing has yet to sign any deals and is still shopping for the best possible profit. Deployment options include (but are not limited to) deals with Excel France, Kiss (startup in UK), and Eurocypria.

So, in short, the rumour you have heard is false. Anything negative you have heard has likely come from an outside source and has no basis.

It is my opinion that posted rumours only serve to invite unwarranted speculation. Such speculation is often detrimental not only to the poster's reputation, but more importantly of the subject itself. "

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineQ120 From Canada, joined Aug 2008, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (5 years 3 months 5 hours ago) and read 13418 times:



Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 33):
I just got the following e-mail from a Sunwing captain.

"Sunwing has not missed payroll.

Thanks for clearing this up, I have been following this post closely.



However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results
User currently offlineYVR1968 From Australia, joined Feb 2004, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 13097 times:

Perhaps this thread should be closed then. (I have posted a "suggest deletion")

Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 33):
It is my opinion that posted rumours only serve to invite unwarranted speculation. Such speculation is often detrimental not only to the poster's reputation, but more importantly of the subject itself.

I agree 100%...

In the future keep posts to substantiated claims rather than just speculations.

[Edited 2009-01-22 16:39:52]

User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 36, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13037 times:



Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 33):

And on that note, this thread is now locked since the rumor has been proven to be false.


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