Heathrow From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 604 posts, RR: 0 Posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3602 times:
I was just on gotraveldirect, and I got the following info :
1 28 Jun 09 Sun 18:30 FIN703 Finnair Toronto
T3 London Gatwick
South Mon 06:35
2 12 Jul 09 Sun 13:00 FIN702 Finnair London Gatwick
South Toronto
T3 Sun 16:05
Is AY really flying YYZ to LGW?? I know in the summer they fly a 757 to HEL, but this is just mental with they're already codeshared YYZ LHR on BA. Any info would be appreciated.
So to answer your question, yes ! Go Travel direct needs an airline to operate their holiday packages, and since they used Zoom extensively, they now need to find another airline for next summer, thus explaining the involvment of Finnair.
Thenoflyzone
[Edited 2009-01-14 19:52:50]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
Heathrow From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 604 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3551 times:
Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 1): If you think AY operating YYZ-LGW is weird, then how about YWG-LGW !!
I was in YWG on Monday, and frankly, I don't see why ANYONE would operate YWG from anywhere.
Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 1): So to answer your question, yes ! Go Travel direct needs an airline to operate their holiday packages, and since they used Zoom extensively, they now need to find another airline for next summer, thus explaining the involvment of Finnair.
so basically they're hust chartering AY aircraft? Are these flights bookable at AY.com?
ScrubbsYWG From France, joined Mar 2007, 1320 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3477 times:
Quoting Heathrow (Reply 2): I was in YWG on Monday, and frankly, I don't see why ANYONE would operate YWG from anywhere.
well that sucks, but it is your opinion.
I looked at some dummy bookings on the go travel direct site and it looks like they are flying out and in on mondays from LGW with a 3+3 757. when you go to book they do infact tell you to go to the finnair website to to check on your flight.
I'm looking to go to europe this summer/early fall and flying to london for $700 all in isn't a bad deal.
Quoting Heathrow (Reply 2): so basically they're hust chartering AY aircraft? Are these flights bookable at AY.com?
Yes, AY Leisure Flights lease out their 752's occasionally in summer season especially.You can't book those flights on AY.com.
I avoid their 757 on longer charter flights especially, the cabin with 227 seats is cramped and uncomfortable, kept in a good shape though. B752 looks good in AY colours but better to avoid it if possible...
BAC111 From United States of America, joined exactly 3 years ago today! , 75 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3041 times:
I'm surprised a 752 has the legs to fly YWG-LGW nonstop.
Also, surprised there's enough of a market for YWG and YYT n/s to LGW, even if only charters.
Heathrow From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 604 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2893 times:
Quoting Matt (Reply 6): Flights will be operated on 757-200s
Quoting BAC111 (Reply 7): I'm surprised a 752 has the legs to fly YWG-LGW nonstop.
Shows as 75W on the site, so I'm guessing the winglets are what gives it that extra bit of range.
Quoting Rutankrd (Reply 8):
Also should those flight actually be AY17- - as AY703 is a Helsinki-Dusseldorf service and most all Finnair Leisure services have 1000 codes i think.
That would be gotraveldirect then, as I copyed and pasted it all
Irobertson From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 563 posts, RR: 5 Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2867 times:
Quoting BAC111 (Reply 7): Also, surprised there's enough of a market for YWG and YYT n/s to LGW, even if only charters.
Newfoundland is starved for direct Europe service. Currently over the winter months, you have to fly to Halifax first, then connect to an Air Canada or Air Transat flight to Heathrow. In the summer, Air Canada usually offers an occasional A319 service from YYT-LHR but there are enough people in the UK and Newfoundland that would rather fly something else.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 11647 posts, RR: 13 Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2702 times:
Quoting BAC111 (Reply 7): Also, surprised there's enough of a market for YWG and YYT n/s to LGW, even if only charters.
Quoting Rutankrd (Reply 8): Winnipeg been under-served since Wardair days .
AC operated scheduled widebody (and earlier on DC-8s) nonstop service YWG-LHR until sometime in the 1980s. CP Air also operated YWG-AMS nonstop for a couple of years in the 1980s on 747-200s and DC-10-30s. On CP YWG was an intermediate stop once or twice a week on flights originating/terminating YVR.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 11647 posts, RR: 13 Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2461 times:
Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 13): Quoting BAC111 (Reply 7):
I'm surprised a 752 has the legs to fly YWG-LGW nonstop.
YWG-LGW 6346 km
B752 range 7222 km (and that's without the winglets, which add a bit more range)
End of debate.
However YWG-LGW is virtually equal to some of the longest transatlantic 752 nonstops, e.g. EWR-TXL and EWR-ARN on CO. NW has in the past used the 752 DTW-FRA which is a couple of hundred of miles further.
And westbound fuel stops are not unheard of on those longer 752 routes. AY's 227 passenger high-density 752s also carry 42% more passengers than NW's and 30% more than CO's, meaning significantly higher weight and thus greater fuel consumption.
I believe NW limited seating on their transatlantic 752s to just 160 (16J/144Y) compared to CO's 175 (16J/159Y) to reduce weight and minimize the need for fuel stops. (NW has 5 inches more seat pitch in J and 2 to 3 inches more in Y on their transatlantic 752s than CO.)
Poor passengers!
I wouldn't choose AY 752 charter for that long flights, last time in Dec HEL-LPA (6h) was rather painful experience.
I wish AY would separate their Leisure Division more clear, on their summer service from HEL to BOS and YYZ especially. The charter-like service and cramped cabin on 752 come as surprise to some passengers.
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
Matt From Canada, joined May 1999, 639 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2307 times:
Quoting Andaman (Reply 15): I wouldn't choose AY 752 charter for that long flights, last time in Dec HEL-LPA (6h) was rather painful experience.
AY uses those 757s on much longer flights. For a few years now, they have used YHZ (Halifax) as a refueling stop for their flights to the Dominican Republic, Mexico and Florida. They also operate to South America and Asia with those planes (with stops, of course).
Next flights : YQM-CUN; YHZ-JFK-HEL-TKU; YQM-EWR-MSY; YHZ-YYT
Andaman From Finland, joined Oct 2005, 2839 posts, RR: 9 Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2207 times:
Quoting Matt (Reply 16): AY uses those 757s on much longer flights.
Oh yes they do, it seems this winter their longest charter service is HEL-PTY via YHZ, total travel time 13-15h... you really have to love 752 for that experience
Finns truly need their sun therapy in winter, but the 5 million people create markets big enough only for few wide body charter services.
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
Thenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 978 posts, RR: 10 Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2175 times:
Quoting Andaman (Reply 17): Oh yes they do, it seems this winter their longest charter service is HEL-PTY via YHZ, total travel time 13-15h... you really have to love 752 for that experience
Seems to me they need to lease another A332 for their Carribean and Americas operations.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
AC_B777 From Canada, joined Aug 2000, 732 posts, RR: 13 Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2018 times:
Quoting Irobertson (Reply 11): Newfoundland is starved for direct Europe service.
I would'nt exactly say 'starved', but there is enough demand for 1-2 flights per week at this point in time.
Quoting Irobertson (Reply 11): In the summer, Air Canada usually offers an occasional A319 service from YYT-LHR
AC only offered the A319 service for one summer in 2007. Since then, AC has given up on the YYT-LHR route due to lack of demand and the cost of a dedicated service.
Quoting Irobertson (Reply 11): there are enough people in the UK and Newfoundland that would rather fly something else.
Big deal. Most airlines are not going to commit to a small market because people would rather fly another airline besides AC or TS. Astraeus flew the LGW-YYT route with 737-700's during the summer of 2007 with very poor results. I remember many days where loads barely broke 6 pax. AC flew to LHR and loads were not as good as were expected. Some days the flights were full and somedays we were lucky to have 30 pax onboard.
I personally don't think this route is going to be that popular. Firstly, most people flying from YYT to the UK are connecting onwards to other destinations, not staying in London. Yes, some do, but the majority don't. Secondly, traditionally, most people want to fly into LHR due to the better choice of connections, frequency, destinations, etc. Most would find LGW more inconvienient.
The main thing that these flights would have in their favor is that they are only running once per week which might see more people flying them. I have often said there is demand for YYT to UK service, but only with 1-3 flights a week. Any more than that is overkill.
In life, some days you are the bug..... some days you are the windshield!
AC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1531 posts, RR: 3 Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1186 times:
Quoting Heathrow (Reply 2): I was in YWG on Monday, and frankly, I don't see why ANYONE would operate YWG from anywhere.
Chuckles. I don't suppose visiting on one of the coldest days of a particularly cold winter had anything to do with it? As someone who has lived in Edmonton, Calgary, and Winnipeg, all I can say is congratulations on rising to the occasion of a prairie winter... Hope you get the chance to see the city someday at a more hospitable time of year. FWIW the temperatures are moving up to about 0 Celcius for the next few days .
As to AY / GoTravel, this is a most interesting development. It certainly throws a lot more potential players into the Canadian charter marketplace. Too bad it's such high seating density, though.
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well that sucks, but it is your opinion. 
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