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US Airways A320 Down In Hudson River, Part 4  
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4502 posts, RR: 72
Posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 38969 times:

This is installment 4 of the discussion of yesterday's US Airways A320 crash in New York. From the previous thread, please note what is believed to be the first pic of the actual impact of this aircraft:

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-182512

[ This link first posted by user Vfw614 ]

210 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4098 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 39034 times:

And to think that this pilot will soon be 'told' that he 'has' to retire because of age. How ironic.

User currently offlineLHR380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 38993 times:

ChrisNH
The Airbus A320, which was built in 1999, has only been in service with USAirways.

I think, or at least I hope, they are just talking about the aircraft itself, not the model!


User currently offlineGorgos From Greece, joined Dec 2007, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 38936 times:



Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 1):
And to think that this pilot will soon be 'told' that he 'has' to retire because of age. How ironic.

His wife will probably force him to retire anyway after this incident  wink 


User currently offlineGatorman96 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 38833 times:

"The Wall Street Journal, which I come to think of as pretty accurate with its writing and research, had this statement in today's paper:

The Airbus A320, which was built in 1999, has only been in service with USAirways."

Meaning that US Airways has been the only carrier to own and operate this particular aircraft (N106US)...



Cha brro
User currently offlineFatmirJusufi From Albania, joined Jan 2009, 2441 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 38810 times:



Quoting Gorgos (Reply 3):
His wife will probably force him to retire anyway after this incident

Really you think so?
Erm, maybe...



DO FLIGHTS. NOT FIGHTS.
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8002 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 38732 times:

I can say right now the flight and cabin crew of US Airways Flight 1549 should win a LOT of awards for their extraordinary skills in bringing down the plane safely and getting everyone off the plane with relatively few injuries.  bigthumbsup  It is truly one of the miraculous events I've ever seen in a long, long time.

User currently offlineCptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 38659 times:

In case y'all are interested, Mayor Bloomberg at this time (on MSNBC) is handing out certificates to all involved w/ the rescue. They have said they will have live-feed of the aircraft extraction from the river today. regards...jack


all best; jack
User currently offlineFlyfree727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 38622 times:



Quoting RayChuang (Reply 6):
I can say right now the flight and cabin crew of US Airways Flight 1549 should win a LOT of awards for their extraordinary skills in bringing down the plane safely and getting everyone off the plane with relatively few injuries.

Mayor Bloomberg during a news conference just announced that the captian and crew will receive keys to the city.

AA ORD


User currently offlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3564 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 38577 times:

I usually do not like to repeat what all other said, but this was a magnificent job of that flight crew, the cabin crew, and the rescue people involved.

For a hollywood movie the flight was too short, though  Wink


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 38683 times:

I think in this particular case the A320's full flight-envelope protection incorporated into its flight-control software must have been very welcome.



It probably helped keeping the aircraft stable enabling the pilots to concentrate on finding a place to put the aircraft on the water at a high angle of attack at the lowest possible speed without stalling the aircraft & go nose down.. before and after contact with the water.


User currently offlineEstorilM From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 38564 times:

So there are a couple things I'd like to mention (again haha.) I'm not going to try and quote stuff from the other thread however.

First of all, from what I can see, EVERY SINGLE previous successful water ditch that I've seen mentioned in here has been a rear engined plane such as the tupolev / 727 / DC8. I'd have to venture a guess here and say that this isn't a coincidence. It's ironic, because it seems like some of these previous stories are being posted to discount how "impossible" it is to ditch a plane intact, when in reality it actually reiterates how EXTREMELY rare it is for this to happen with a traditional twin engine / under wing AC. So in this respect, maybe it is a first? I mean the underbelly of a 727 or DC8 is almost totally free of obstructions/drag.. no risk of hooking an engine with catastrophic consequences (even if it breaks free from the pylon, the drag might still be enough to pull a wing under and destroy the entire fuselage.)

Another interesting note (something I mentioned way earlier) is the continued relationships to the Gimli Glider incident where the pilots had glider training.

The last thing I thought I'd mention is relating to all the posts about FBW having helped this situation. This simply isn't true - in the case of a double engine failure, the Airbus defaulted back to it's most basic Direct Law control mode, where every input was sent to the control surfaces untouched/altered. Even worse, it's highly likely that he was dealing with VERY poor control characteristics due to low hydraulic pressures and slow airspeeds.


Cheers =)
-alex


User currently offlineSirOmega From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 38547 times:



Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 1):


And to think that this pilot will soon be 'told' that he 'has' to retire because of age. How ironic.

Maybe thats not such a bad thing? How big of an impact can he have if he were to go into teaching crisis management? Teaching his skills to a new generation of pilots and others. No one will question his experience thats for sure!


User currently offlineCptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 38452 times:

EstoriIM; are you sure about a DC-8 being a rear-engined aircraft??

just wondering...jack



all best; jack
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8002 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 38434 times:

Actually, from what I've read one thing the pilot did was activate what's known as "ditching mode" on the A320. What this does is close off all vents and intakes that could cause water to leak into the plane really fast, and that's why the plane floated just long enough to get everyone out of the plane safely.

The pilot was also really lucky the plane came to a rest in the water at the point where there was a lot of boats nearby that could pick up people. That's why several New York Waterway ferry boats got to the scene of the ditching in only a few minutes and got everyone off the plane quickly.


User currently offlineDecromin From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2008, 80 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 38243 times:



Quoting SirOmega (Reply 12):
The last thing I thought I'd mention is relating to all the posts about FBW having helped this situation. This simply isn't true - in the case of a double engine failure, the Airbus defaulted back to it's most basic Direct Law control mode, where every input was sent to the control surfaces untouched/altered. Even worse, it's highly likely that he was dealing with VERY poor control characteristics due to low hydraulic pressures and slow airspeeds.

We don't know that as of yet. The engines may have been badly damaged, and not produce sufficient thrust for continued flight, but we don't know how much power they were delivering to the hydraulics and electrics. I suppose it'll all come out int he investigation.


User currently offlineBurner71 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 38398 times:

this picture cracks me up



User currently offlineJamincan From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 775 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 38204 times:



Quoting EstorilM (Reply 11):
First of all, from what I can see, EVERY SINGLE previous successful water ditch that I've seen mentioned in here has been a rear engined plane such as the tupolev / 727 / DC8

I'm pretty certain all the DC-8s I know of have the engines under the wing.


User currently offlineBurner71 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 38290 times:

let me fix it lol






User currently offlineLHR380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 38169 times:



Quoting Burner71 (Reply 16):

Upside down Life jacket!!
Was trying to figure out what was so funny about it till I really looked  Smile


User currently offlineB777A340Fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 773 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 38167 times:

the media has been praising the pilot for this intricate water landing. i thought airplanes were designed to float and/or not break during water landings. not to discount his skills or heroism whatsoever... i'm just wondering, was it really that difficult?

User currently offlineGlareskin From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1304 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 38115 times:



Quoting Gorgos (Reply 3):
His wife will probably force him to retire anyway after this incident

And this logic I don't understand. First of all statitically the chances for him to get involved in a second accident are practicaly zero. Secondly I think he proved to be a skilled pilot with good survival chances in emergencies. Nothing to worry about for the misses....

One other thing that crossed my mind. Maybe it is discussed before in this thread, I've only read the last two, in that case I am sorry for bringing it up. But what I was wondering is if they couldn't make it to Teterboro for an emergency landing? Or maybe the risk for people on the ground would have been too high. any thoughts on that?



There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4098 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 38050 times:



Quoting Gatorman96 (Reply 4):
"The Wall Street Journal, which I come to think of as pretty accurate with its writing and research, had this statement in today's paper:

The Airbus A320, which was built in 1999, has only been in service with USAirways."

Meaning that US Airways has been the only carrier to own and operate this particular aircraft (N106US)...

Ahhh...thank you. In that context it's a true statement. My first read led me to think they were talking about the model.


User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 38072 times:

This is how it could have gone.....


A video of a hijacked Ethiopian airlines B767 that tried to land offshore the Komoro islands in 1996. 125 of the 175 passengers did not survive that crash...


http://atvs.vg.no/player/?id=20751


User currently offlineAcabgd From Serbia, joined Jul 2005, 659 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 38010 times:



Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 20):
i'm just wondering, was it really that difficult?

Check out how many other water ditchings without fatalities there were, then you will find out if it was difficult or not.



CSud,D9,MD8x,D10,Trid,BAC1,A30,31,319,320,321,33,346,B71,72,73,74,75,76,77,L10,S20,A42,A72,T13,T15,F50,F70,F100,B146
25 ChrisNH : "WILLLLLLLLLLLSOOOOOOOOOOOON!" That's all I can think of...Tom Hanks crying for his lost volleyball 'Wilson.'
26 B777A340Fan : Hmmmm.... how many were they really? All i can remember is TWA flight 800?
27 Par13del : My theory, both engines had flamed out, which was probably the best thing for a water landing. The engines are slung under the wing, if they were runn
28 LHR380 : I would not really call TWA800 a ditching?? It exploded mid air!!!
29 Post contains links Winglet : it's RIGHT OUTSIDE my apartment. NTSB and US AIrways just arrived http://www.kontain.com/david/#entries/entry/11297
30 NWADC9 : Opposite Day? But do they mention the fact many panicking passengers inflated their life vests BEFORE exiting the plane, or even landing? They would
31 Post contains links BOACVC10 : New York Times published an online interactive graphic available here, loads graphic based upon RADAR data of the take off and ditching that shows pr
32 Vfw614 : There was a report about a business-woman who fell from the wing into the water while trying to get rid of her killer high heels, doing a one-legged d
33 BHD : On another point, as this is one of the rare ditches that has been made successfully, do you think the flight data recorders and associated parameters
34 ExSR : This is only done if time permits. Usually part of the "Cabin Preperation Procedure" - a flight attendants checklist for the correct and safest prepa
35 Par13del : They are designed to withsand water and fire to some degree, so I'm sure they will be an invaluable tool in putting together all the facts, that all
36 Gr8Circle : Although all pilots are trained for such situations, very few will ever get the opportunity to prove their abilities in doing so successfully.....I t
37 Slider : Well, it’s a reality check, no question. But this guy was an F-4 pilot. Old school. Tough as nails, solid as a rock. I don’t think he’ll be out
38 Post contains links and images Keesje : Promotors of removing life vests for overland flights to save weight / fuel have met their statistical Waterloo :D http://a.abcnews.com/Travel/story?i
39 Gatorman96 : Not considering a ditching, but I'll play along... Swissair 111, Egypt Air 990, Alaska Airlines 261, Ethiopian 961 (as Mortyman already mentioned) an
40 OPNLguy : It's not 60 any more, so he still has some way to go...if he chooses to...
41 Max550 : I was actually thinking about that this morning, aren't planes that fly over water required to have more gear than planes that don't (i.e. rafts, lif
42 Ourboeing : I have been a loyal customer of US Airways and AWA for a very long time and this incident reinforces my trust in them. My loyalty comes from the days
43 4holer : I'm sure I'm not the first to speculate as to whether USAirways does/will charge for use of life jackets, rafts, overwing exits, F/A egress assistance
44 WingedMigrator : Judging from Winglet's photographs, the engines sheared off, as designed. There are a variety of failure modes (other than ditching) that impart enor
45 Glareskin : Although I think everybody in yesterdays crash would have survived without the life vests as well.
46 Par13del : Rafts are one piece of equipment, there are others.
47 Max550 : Did this aircraft have rafts? I'm assuming it did (since there are photos of people in rafts) but I wouldn't know the difference between the inflatab
48 Rampart : Interesting. Which brings me to ask: 1) Where the pilot reported the engine failure (frame 2 in the graphic) seems to be quite a bit farther from the
49 ExSR : Actually the slides on ab A320 are a slide/raft combination. They are ment to be floating devices but not to be a real raft like on a larger plane wh
50 Gopal : Is it likely that the rescue efforts were somewhat helped by the fact that the plane landed on a body of salt water ? Salt water has greater bouyancy
51 Glareskin : me too and that I why i'd like to ask my question again since nobody responded:
52 Max550 : Thank you. So if this aircraft were equipped for flying more than 50 miles offshore it would have had more rafts than just the slide/rafts? I think t
53 F9Animal : I know it. That is just the poops. But, at the same time, he has certainly had a full career in aviation. He will be valuable for his other business.
54 Post contains images DAL763ER : That's correct. However, don't forget about the 777 at LHR which was on Jan 17th 2008 - one year ago. [Edited 2009-01-16 09:36:40]
55 Vfw614 : Who knows? Easier and much safer to ditch in some wide area of water in your immediate vicinity than heading for an airport 5 miles away with the need
56 STT757 : From the looks of the models etc.. he probably could have made TEB. Teterboro airport is about 4 miles from where the aircraft went down. The problem
57 EstorilM : As I had mentioned before, this is turning out to be a big misconception.. the pilots weren't just sitting back while the computer dealt with the eme
58 B707forever : DC8s are four engine under the wing aircraft. I remember that JAL incident very well and reading about it in 1968. The article spoke of it setting do
59 EstorilM : See my above post, I was just reading/thinking DC9 not DC8.. if you had asked me which was which I would have known haha. I'm curious how far the bott
60 ExSR : Special emergency equipment for aircrafts which only have a slide/raft combination as a floating device. For longer overwater flights - I think more
61 Max550 : So this aircraft was not equipped for operating off-shore? They were lucky they landed in such a busy area, had they been further away from land and
62 CV880 : FWIW, the Pilot, started His career with PSA, which then was absorbed by US.
63 Rampart : Max550 is correct. The Hudson is brackish, not salt water. I can't imagine it has much of an influence in this case. Where they ditched has half the
64 MadameConcorde : I bet those exit row seats are going to be very much in demand in the weeks to come. Some psychological thing on airline passengers after they have se
65 AustrianZRH : Somewhere (CNN?) I heard they were indeed telling ATC they would try to reach TEB but finally they decided on the ditching option.
66 ExSR : Well, I can´t exactly say that. The A 320family alwas has the same slide/rafts - doesn´tmatter wether for continental or over-water flights. They d
67 Danfearn77 : How come, like the Ethiopian airlines crash in 1996, did this not tear apart. When the engines hit the water why didnt they make the plane flip over o
68 Atomsareenough : Statistically the chances of him getting involved in a second accident are exactly the same as the chances that he would get into the first. Unless h
69 Ikramerica : A seat cushion would have been just as effective in this case. Most people were not in the water, and the few that were were pulled out very quickly.
70 Max550 : Do 737's as well? I remember in a thread about Southwest operating to Mexico or somewhere in the Caribbean/Central America people were saying they wo
71 Post contains links Max550 : NY Times is reporting that the left engine of the plane is missing. This would confirm what most people thought, that one or both engines would have s
72 Rampart : More likely warehouses and office parks if they missed or over/undershot. Still, far more damaging to property and aircraft. I think the water ditchi
73 WingedMigrator : The Ethiopian incident was not a controlled ditching. There was a struggle at the controls. Then the engines hit the water, they seem to have broken
74 Kaitak : Have a look at the ET 767 video and you'll see that one of the wings dipped and hit the water first, causing the plane to cartwheel. In this instance
75 Flyingcat : I am not absolutely certain but I believe the hijackers were fighting with the crew over the controls causing the aircraft to come in at an angle. Li
76 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : It's already been pointed out that the DC-8 isn't rear-engined, but neither was the Aeroflot Tu-124 that successfully ditched in the Neva River at LE
77 Maxpower1954 : All East metal US Airways A320s are extended-overwater equipped. About 40 % of the 319s are, but none of the original batch of 321s (not sure about t
78 Olympus69 : Because, as has been mentioned before, the engine/wing attachments are designed to fail first, so that the engines rip off when hitting the water, th
79 Mirrodie : I was just trying to confirm a rumor... is there actual video of the ditching? I've seen plenty a pic but no video, but trying to dispell a rumor
80 Post contains links Aerodog : Bird strike certification criteria for engines. For inlets over 3.9 meters sq, the large bird test is a 5.51 lb bird injested at 100% power. Per wikip
81 Max777geek : that's even an infant one, I guess, compared to the others. Well, even that way, it would have been saving him from drowning. Im not so sure. If ("IF
82 Post contains links and images Canuckpaxguy : So, I was just on cnn.com and I noticed the following: "Dr. Phil -- licensed pilot" Is this guy is an expert on EVERYTHING? G
83 Max777geek : Didn't this happened because of missing power/imbalance problem due to the unplanned fuel burns ? you're talking about the hijacked 767, are you ?
84 NQYGuy : Funny seeing the BBC use flight sim footage to re-create the emergency landing just now..
85 Post contains links HangarRat : I believe the NY Times reported that it cleared the bridge by about 900 feet, which is not dangerous, but it's unusually close. What I'm wondering ab
86 Post contains links STT757 : It does freeze over, here's some photos: 2003 http://www.flickr.com/photos/nystateofmind/2212636265/ 2007 http://kipperfrog.blogspot.com/2007/...k-hu
87 Threepoint : Which 727? And let me correct you: remember the Boeing 707 that landed in Lake Victoria, the successful ditching of a 737 in an Indonesian river and
88 Max777geek : If he's related to somebody in the news business, I tought those kind of things were only italian exclusive habits.
89 Post contains links Alessandro : List of ditching, http://aviation-safety.net/database/dblist.php?Event=REED&lang=&page=2 and list of skidding into water after overshooting the runway
90 NIKV69 : I am glad instead of models the expertise of a military pilot made the final decision. I think more so the captain had no power and probably felt his
91 Threepoint : You should've picked better photos. That blue stuff in the river is water. As in unfrozen ice.
92 Inbound : I'd assume they are all trained the same way because most airlines have flight attendants on a mixed fleet roster. One day this airplane, the next da
93 Rampart : OK, yes. But not in the sense I was thinking (i.e. a solid sheet of ice, and your pictures are more disagregated ice chunks). I could have been clear
94 Slider : I know the facts aren't out yet, but I'll bet anyone here a six pack that he was absolutely in control. PIC all the way.
95 KELPkid : Can YOU spot the guy who didn't pay attention to the safety briefing? Hope he wasn't seated in an emergency exit row
96 727forever : It has been many years since I last flew the A320 (4 aircraft types ago), but if the RAT deploys doesn't that take you out of Normal Law and put you
97 Post contains links STT757 : Ever heard of ice breakers, the Coast Guard was clearing paths daily in 2003 for all those ferries and barges carrying heating oil. http://www.biopho
98 Alessandro : Bellylanding isn´t pretty either, I wonder how much added drag the landinggear would have added, remember also no reversing availble on the engine,
99 ExSR : Yes. I think most international operating airlines do include a ditching training in the standard SEP training course. I think it´s a normal adult l
100 Threepoint : He was a CRM instructor and surely understands the mentality of "PIC all the way" has killed thousands of people. If he was designated PNF, he may no
101 TJCAB : if course you do realize that their primary job function is passenger safety?
102 Litz : A better question is ... in recreating this in the sim, did they put it down in one piece? Too many times, an incident like this occurs and the test
103 Post contains links Rikkus67 : Not sure if anyone has posted this, but I knew if I searched long enough, I would find a link. It shows pictures of a 707 floating.... This ditching (
104 Par13del : Anyone know the ability of the A320 to operate with one engine? Lets say one engine was out due to the bird strike, would a fully loaded A320 be able
105 Post contains links and images Jetjack74 : Or this one?Although not quite a ditching. View Large View MediumPhoto © Linze Folkeringa We have standardised training that let us deviate from
106 NIKV69 : The runways also didn't set up for him to well. He would have had to made some kind of turn once he was flying the river. To make runway 1 which is 7
107 Phileet92 : Has anybody taken into account that this was done on a river? i mean one thing i noticed between the ET 767 and this incident was that this A320 was d
108 Alessandro : Add that he had only one try and it could´ve been planes/cars on the runway.
109 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : He's probably referring to this National Airlines 727-200 approaching Pensacola, Florida in 1978. Three fatalities of 58 aboard. Link to NTSB report
110 Post contains links Oakmad : I thought people may be interested in this. Its the training procedure for an A320 dual engine failre taht was just posted on Boing Boing. Interesting
111 Threepoint : And yesterday's pilots weren't fighting with armed hijackers during the approach either. That may have had something to do with the outcome in the Se
112 SeeTheWorld : Wasn't there a 727 in the 1980s that came down in Panama City Bay in Florida with the loss of a few passengers? I don't think it was as much of a cont
113 Viscount724 : Please see Reply 109.
114 Post contains links OA260 : Just seen it on BBC was interesting to watch. Reconstruction of New York air crash Just Flight to be featured on the BBC TV News 16/01/2009 You've pro
115 CV880 :
116 DALMD88 : My congrats to the crew. They did an awsome job, just like they were trained to do. Same goes to all the rescue crew. One question? Why does the media
117 Thorben : Both engines out with a full plane over a very densely populated area like NY? Kudos to crew and captain for pulling this through without a fatality.
118 Litz : This does bring up an interesting point .... how many times has a modern jetliner actually lost all engines? Off the top of my head, I can think of :
119 Halophila : I can't wait for the 2 hr telemovie
120 Mortyman : It's important to have the correct angle when you hit the water. A levelled angle is from what I have heard your best shot at getting the plane down
121 Post contains links Viscount724 : If you consider the DC-8 "modern", also the UA DC-8-61 at PDX in 1978 due fuel starvation, with10 fatalities of 189 aboard. http://aviation-safety.ne
122 Litz : The Ethiopian 767 was doomed even worse than that ... not only did a wing dip and hit the water, it dipped and hit a reef UNDER the water. That impac
123 Max550 : Also the BA 777 at LHR last year
124 Naritaflyer : Could the pilot have deployed the landing gears? Not that he needed to because this was a successful ditching but in other cases would landing gears h
125 Litz : BA's 777 didn't lose all engines though ... it just lost useful thrust. Both engines were still running with above-idle thrust at impact. - litz
126 FlySSC : NO !!! Never deploy the landing gears for ditching ! It would "destabilized" the aircraft on impact The aircraft would sink faster
127 Max550 : Didn't know that, Thanks
128 HangarRat : They'll have to do it in real time, like 24.
129 RW170 : It was already USAir by 1980. They changed the name in '79. But he came from PSA anyway as others have mentioned.
130 AirbusA370 : Most times an engine damaged by birdstrikes delivers also a little bit thrust if you do not shut it down. Of course, the vibrations might damages oth
131 Hatbutton : In no way am I going to discount anything these crewmembers did. The landing was textbook and evacuation perfect. Amazing indeed and they deserve all
132 Post contains links SpeedyGonzales : SAS MD 81, ice ingestion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_Airlines_Flight_751
133 OldAeroGuy : If both engines were inoperative, battery power alone would have been sufficient for this type of situation if hydraulic power were available from th
134 Bok269 : AFAIK, virtually all twin-engine aircraft have to demonstrate single-engined climb capability. If they had only lost one engine, N106US would probabl
135 Post contains links and images Spacecadet : Looks pretty solid to me, except for that little path down the middle. To each side, that's ice over the river - that's not land. The Hudson is a maj
136 Ditzyboy : You are incorrect. A320s can be fitted with slides at the main exits or slide rafts. An actual [I}slideraft[/] is certified to be a slide AND a raft.
137 Alessandro : Yes, if they should land somewhere else than water. Problem is increased drag, which slows the plane down and makes it lose altitude.
138 Post contains links Captainstorck : For clarification purposes, in December, 2007 the FAA's mandatory retirement age was extended to 65. http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_stor
139 Ditzyboy : Again, this is not true. You are mistaken. The A320 series can have slide only devices OR sliderafts. Sliderafts are certified as slides - 100%. The
140 GentFromAlaska : Fox News reported today Captain Scully is a certified glider pilot who owns a risk management company. He has participated in past NTSB investigation(
141 ER757 : Whether it was warehouses or residences, coming up short or long would almost certainly have produced many fatalities. There was a fair amount of fue
142 NCB : I'll add a few: Tunisair ATR-72 (with survivors) and more of a crash landing rather than ditching but NZ A320 not so long ago.
143 Etops1 : Did this aircraft have rafts? I'm assuming it did (since there are photos of people in rafts) but I wouldn't know the difference between the inflatabl
144 Post contains links Viscount724 : " target=_blank>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandin...t_751 And this Southern Airways DC-9-31 in 1977. Both engines flamed out in heavy rain and hai
145 NCB : I'll add a few: '05 Tunisair ATR-72 fuel starvation due to wrong (ATR-42) fuel gauges Helios B737 fuel starvation, crew and pax ko by hypoxia British
146 Malaysia : I noticed that cause some were just sitting on the overwing slides that are still attached to aircraft. (only ones that are not rafts and I also reme
147 22right : Thank god that this turned out OK with no loss of life. Kudos to the pilot and the rest of the crew for their professionalism. A quick question: Are t
148 NCB : Also, to criticise those who say that "they were lucky that it happened in good weather conditions and in broad daylight", I'd simply say that most bi
149 LHR380 : There are lots of planes that fly at night, and in not ideal conditions. Flights take off in winds, rain snow bad viability, as early as 5am as late
150 BuyantUkhaa : I think NCB meant biological birds such as, for example, canadian geese.
151 Sasd209 : Not to mention he didn't have the ability to since, as discussed earlier, the A320 is not fitted for it.
152 Viscount724 : I don't mean to nitpick, but since it's such a common error, often even in the media, the correct name for that species is CANADA goose, not CANADIAN
153 LHR380 : Ahh, did not see the bird reference. Sorry
154 Scramjetter : Glider experience isn't going to help much in a situation like this. All pilots are trained to set up best glide airspeed. It's not like he was going
155 MD11Engineer : FR B737 in CIA last year, through multiple birdstrike. Jan
156 Mir : You don't. You can't. It's logistically impossible. They probably couldn't. Once the landing gear is down, the drag is going to go up, and the glide
157 N6168E : The company that I worked for had DHC6-100 hit a goose at 8000ft one night around 11PM in solid IMC (many years ago).
158 727forever : I beg to differ. If the RAT did not deploy there would not be enough power. If the engines are not operable you do not get engine hydraulic pumps. Th
159 Luvflng : No they are exactly the same as for the first incidence.
160 Post contains links Litz : More pictures are starting to surface ... here's a few from the AP, in this one they've circled the plane, showing it heading downriver (it's probably
161 BabyblueBHX : Speaking from personal experience all cabin crew at an airline that are all trained to the same Standard Operating Procedure (S.O.P) and the same Sta
162 CV880 : Merger of PS with US happened late 80's at same time of DL/WA.
163 Starlionblue : As mentioned, the chances of him being in a second crash are exactly the same as before. The first event does not affect the probability of a possibl
164 RW170 : I'm aware of that. I was pointing out that Allegheny changed its name to USAir in 1979, so by 1980 it was already USAir. This captain obviously came
165 B747forever : Could you please explain your statement? The chance for another incident is the same for him as a pilot that hasnt been involved in a crash.
166 BA777ER236 : Well, I'm sure that you are a superior pilot, but trying to judge this point just above the stall without dropping a wing at the critical moment woul
167 NCB : Well you got me there. In fact that is possible as, though MOST birds don't fly at night or in bad weather (I was careful enough to add that), geese
168 COA735 : Kudos to "Sully", First officer Jeff Skiles, and the flight crew. Amazing job
169 Post contains links Maxpower1954 : Almost forgotten today - in 1962 a United Viscount flew into a flock of whistling swans in cruise at 6,000 feet, which caused the left horizontal sta
170 AT : I''m glad someone acknowledged the copilot ! The media has largely overlooked him. Do we know in fact whether it was the pilot or first officer who wa
171 Ikramerica : Not true. You are presuposing that accident chances are based on random events. Are bird strikes random? Yes. So the odds of another event don't chan
172 Wjcandee : A fair number of shows were talking about the co-pilot, even though they didn't have a name (initially) or a picture. Dr. Phil on Larry King last nig
173 Post contains links Haddock0815 : What came in my view after following Alessandros link to the list of ditches http://aviation-safety.net/database/dblist.php?Event=REED&lang=&page=2 is
174 ScrubbsYWG : he already does that. he has a safety consultant business and teaches at Berkeley, as well as he worked with NASA and the NTSB.
175 Norlander : I think he is refering to birds as in the animals, not planes. Birds do not fly around much at night nor in bad weather and therefore the chance of b
176 KELPkid : I just asserted to a co-worker who visited my cube, asking for my take on things (he knows that I'm involved in aviation and have a pilot's license),
177 Nykr : I was wondering whether the fact that the engines are no longer attached to the wings and likely broke away upon impact with the water contributed to
178 NYkr : Another question...there has been no mention of a fuel spill related to the engines separating...since the wings did not appear to sustain a great dea
179 AAden : Does anyone know If the pilot made any announcements prior to the ditch? AAden
180 Aer Lingus : Never land in water with the landing gear deployed. If landing gear have been deployed, the drag created by the main gears may force the aircraft to
181 NYkr : According to news reports the pilot told the passengers to "brace for impact" before the plane ditched.
182 Ikramerica : Accounts from inside the aircraft say the reason it started to get tail heavy was that passengers had moved to the back of the plane in a panic (not
183 Dragon6172 : Honestly, people need to have traveling shoes. I like to take my shoes off or at least loosen the laces on long flights, but I certainly do not do it
184 B747forever : Wow, that is actually scary. Glad that the crew got control over the panic.
185 Trystero : Too many replies, too little, sorry if this mentioned before. For what i remember having read about this case, pilots attempt to ditch near the beach
186 Phileet92 : I can't 'till a new episode of "Air Crash Investigation" comes out about this. it'll be a pretty interesting one. especially with all the survivors to
187 NIKV69 : I think they made that decesion pretty early. Once he was on the river heading he couldn't make 24, at that point they had probably already known the
188 RJ777 : Will they be unable to recover the black boxes until the plane is lifted out of the water? Plus, I think it's pretty clear now that this bird will nev
189 Post contains links and images Moose135 : I was over in Jersey City for a few hours this afternoon and got a few shots: They are scheduled to lift her around 10am, looks like I'm heading back
190 Starlionblue : The other reason being that the pilots were struggling with the hijackers during the ditching. IIRC, the hijackers didn't understand the concept of "
191 Ebs757 : I find it hard to believe this isn't on film... all those high rises and people on ferrys etc.
192 Threepoint : Add to these and the several responses you've received before mine, literally dozens of examples over the years. Some had happy endings, some not. If
193 Moose135 : They were going to try to recover them today before lifting the jet out of the river, but decided not to, given the currents and water temp. They sai
194 Osiris30 : I'm just going to throw this out there, but.. is it possible this wasn't birds.. I mean a dual engine flame out sounds a fair amount like a what a rec
195 F9Animal : Oh yeah. Another one of my gems that I miss. When I worked for US, I worked with mostly former PSA employees. They were by far the most pleasant peop
196 Threepoint : No, the error is common with us as well. Have they determined the species that brought down the Airbus? Well, I'll admit I wondered if it was salvage
197 Phileet92 : Dont forget the BA 777. Not trying to draw attention or anything. i was actually planning to go to the west side a little bit south of the intrepid w
198 Threepoint : As previously mentioned, the BA 777 had above-idle thrust remaining on both engines, so it wasn't a true no-thrust situation.
199 F9Animal : The aircraft was going at a much higher speed, and the pilots were wrestling with the hijackers before the wing dipped. You are correct. Yes, and the
200 Nycbjr : any one have an idea when they plan on hoisting her onto the barge tomorrow? I might head down and take some pics to share. cheers
201 Acabgd : Yes, but flameout doesn't usually come with a loud bang and fire coming out of the back of the engine, right? The only thing I don't understand is ho
202 PSA727 : I've just realized that I've flown on this aircraft (106) before when it was in the old colors. It used to be one of the regulars at DCA. Normally, I
203 Jmc1975 : With this miraculous event, let's hope that will be the beginning of the end of US Airways bashing on A.net.
204 Fokkerf28 : USAirways releases the crew info: US Airways has released the names of the crew on board Flight 1549. Captain Chesley B. Sullenberger, III, age 58, jo
205 Osiris30 : Actually, compressor stalls do *exactly* that! Depends.. the brain can play tricks on you. Especially if one is louder than the other.
206 B747forever : Kudos to all of them!! BTW, wow it was a really old, but experienced crew!!
207 Osiris30 : Insanely experienced crew. I'm sure it helped (not that I don't think all crews are well trained mind you).
208 Moose135 : News reports say around 10am. I plan to be over in Jersey City to shoot it.
209 OTOPS : DC-9 you mean?
210 Post contains links HB-IWC : We are over 200 replies again for this thread. Please continue the discussion in episode 5, which may be found here: http://www.airliners.net/aviation
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