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United DC-10 Crash In Sioux City Iowa  
User currently offlineSlimShady From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 196 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 27430 times:

I was having a conversation with a co-worker about yesterday's crash, which led us talking about crashes in general.

My co-worker claims there are photographs which have never been released. These photographs were allegedly taken by a farmer, who just so happend to have his camera while farming that day, who was able to get some photos of the plane just prior to its crash landing.

Supposedly, this farmer went to the media with the photos, and the news wasnt interested for whatever reason (I suppose because there was no firey crash in these photos). However, apparently the FAA / NTSB and Douglas caught wind of these because the photos apparently showed some detail as to the extent of the damage casued to the tail of the plane by the ruptured disk. My co-worker claimed these photos really helped the investigators during the crash investigation.

The story goes that these photos were never showed to the public..

Does anyone have any idea if this is true?

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineN104UA From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 908 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 27335 times:

I have never heard about that, but there is this pic
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0a/UA232precrash.jpg
he could be mistaken and be thinking on how a few months after the crash a farmer found the fan disk in a field about 70 miles from Sioux City



"Learn the rules, so you know how to break them properly." -H.H. The Dalai Lama
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12138 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 27225 times:

I have never been supportive of selling pictures of crashes to the news media. All they do is speculate about this and that. Turn the pictures over to the accident investigators, like the NTSB. that way we can learn more about how/why it crashed, and the condition of the airplane just before the crash.

User currently offlineCF6PPE From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 351 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 26971 times:

CNN at the time of this unfortunate incident did a great job of covering the crash site and showing pictures of the various engine parts in the debris field. I put a 6 hour tape in our (home) VCR that evening and just let it record whatever CNN showed. Since the approach and so forth took quite a while, some of the local TV stations had cameras at various positions along the approach path. CNN played those images as well. As I recall, the lower side of the #2 position powerplant was quite clearly shown as the aircraft flew slowly overhead. The point where the fan disk had exited the aircraft was also clearly seen.

I took the VCR tape to work the next day and gave it to my fearless leader. He and a couple of the Powerplant Engineers looked very closely at the tape and by using a CF6-6 engine half section drawing, had pretty much identified what parts were missing from the debris field. As was later confirmed, the fan disk was missing and found in the corn field.

I've left out some to shorten, but the facts are there.

Since that time, I haven't seen as good of camera work showing a crash site in detail.


User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 25083 times:

I watched a video on this crash on youtube a few weeks ago. What was the most horrific detail of the event was how it was "Children's Day" at United so all parents were able to fly their kids on board for a penny with the purchase of a regular adult fare. Flight 232 was filled with children and worse off it was FAA regulation that during a crash landing all infants were to be placed on the floor of the aircraft. I found this flight to be very tragic with the loss of many children and infants on board.

Rest in peace to all of those on flight 232.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5027 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 24963 times:



Quoting SlimShady (Thread starter):
My co-worker claims there are photographs which have never been released. These photographs were allegedly taken by a farmer, who just so happend to have his camera while farming that day, who was able to get some photos of the plane just prior to its crash landing.

Supposedly, this farmer went to the media with the photos, and the news wasnt interested for whatever reason (I suppose because there was no firey crash in these photos). However, apparently the FAA / NTSB and Douglas caught wind of these because the photos apparently showed some detail as to the extent of the damage casued to the tail of the plane by the ruptured disk. My co-worker claimed these photos really helped the investigators during the crash investigation.

I seriously doubt those claims. Not only that, Captain Al Haynes of that flight does speeches often (and if you get the chance, it is well worth going to listen. All he asks for is a donation to Little League!). If Douglas wanted to keep it so hushed, they would you know, paid him enough to keep quiet. Al Haynes daughter needed a bone marrow transplant a few years ago, and he could not afford to do so. He went to the media for help, and donations poured in.

The damage to the tail was captured in a video taken of the aircraft shortly before touchdown.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5027 posts, RR: 28
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 24933 times:

Wow, talk about weird. I went to go read up on my local news, and look at what I found!

http://www.komonews.com/news/37745834.html



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 24454 times:



Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 4):
I watched a video on this crash on youtube a few weeks ago. What was the most horrific detail of the event was how it was "Children's Day" at United so all parents were able to fly their kids on board for a penny with the purchase of a regular adult fare. Flight 232 was filled with children and worse off it was FAA regulation that during a crash landing all infants were to be placed on the floor of the aircraft. I found this flight to be very tragic with the loss of many children and infants on board.

Rest in peace to all of those on flight 232.

I think you should read the NTSB report rather than relay on youtube for you facts. There were only four (4) lap occupants and of those three (3) survived. The one child that died, died due to smoke inhalation.


User currently offlineSpacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3624 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 24071 times:



Quoting SlimShady (Thread starter):
The story goes that these photos were never showed to the public..

Does anyone have any idea if this is true?

Like others here, I strongly doubt it. All NTSB evidence is part of the public docket, and nobody has ever alleged a coverup in this investigation (unlike some others, wrongly). You can request any NTSB evidence through a freedom of information act request, and for recent investigations, they just put all the but the most sensitive evidence on their web site. (Not sure if that's true of this accident or not.)

There are photos like the one posted above that show a little more detail (that appears to be a newspaper scan) that I have personally seen on TV shows and whatnot. Those are honestly probably the photos your friend is talking about. They have been released.

Just because someone hasn't seen something doesn't mean it hasn't been "showed (or released) to the public". That's kind of a misnomer as it is - when this crash happened, all the evidence was *available* to the public, but what does "showed" mean? I think some people assume that if they haven't seen it on CNN, that means it's being withheld or covered up. But 9 times out of 10, the government would love for that information to be out there but the news organizations just don't find it interesting enough.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offline747buff From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 742 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 23920 times:



Quoting 474218 (Reply 7):
There were only four (4) lap occupants and of those three (3) survived. The one child that died, died due to smoke inhalation.

I remember reading the passenger list in an old news article and there were quite a few older children (age 5 and up) who also died, including a few families who were wiped out. Also, if any of you remember the famous picture of the rescuer carrying a little boy away from the wreckage, he was traveling with his mother and brother. The two boys survived, but their mom did not. BTW that picture was used as the basis for a remembrance statue in downtown Sioux City.



At Eastern, we earn our wings every day!
User currently offlineNickMDW From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 23371 times:

I had the opportunity to see Dennis Fitch give a presentation to a small group several years ago. He displayed a set of 3 photos taken by a farmer or his son somewhere along the flight path. They showed the aircraft approaching, overhead, and trailing. IIRC the photos were used by the NTSB to establish the condition of the aircraft prior to impact.

User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 22310 times:



Quoting 474218 (Reply 7):
I think you should read the NTSB report rather than relay on youtube for you facts. There were only four (4) lap occupants and of those three (3) survived. The one child that died, died due to smoke inhalation.

Yes, my bad. Do you have a link where I can read more about the report of UA 232?



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineJETA1863 From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 21737 times:

http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001213X28786&key=1


Regardless of the issue at hand, always analyze BOTH sides of a situation and ONLY THEN make an educated decision.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25170 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 21631 times:



Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 11):
Do you have a link where I can read more about the report of UA 232?

This is the complete NTSB report.
http://amelia.db.erau.edu/reports/ntsb/aar/AAR90-06.pdf


User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1334 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 21280 times:

Indeed, the second best landing following a complete hydraulic failure. Well done, but not good enough to take the price!


From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 21121 times:



Quoting B777LRF (Reply 14):
Indeed, the second best landing following a complete hydraulic failure. Well done, but not good enough to take the price!

What was the first?


User currently offlineEgcarter From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 20682 times:

National Geographic Channel's series SECONDS FROM DISASTER had an excellent recreation and review of the UA 232 Sioux City incident. In fact, it's scheduled to be repeated on January 21st at 10PM ET.

User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2350 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 20557 times:



Quoting CF6PPE (Reply 3):
Since the approach and so forth took quite a while, some of the local TV stations had cameras at various positions along the approach path.

I always thought the news media did a piss poor job of covering this accident as it happened. As you said, they had an advance notice. Yes, Souix City is rather small, but with at least a half hour to prepare, I would think a better clip could have been captured than the infamous view through the metal fence.

Quoting 747buff (Reply 9):
I remember reading the passenger list in an old news article and there were quite a few older children (age 5 and up) who also died, including a few families who were wiped out.

Unfortunately, survival all depended on where the passengers were seated. In the very front and back of the cabin, almost everyone died. In the middle portion, almost everyone lived.



There's nothing quite like a tri-jet.
User currently offlineCF6PPE From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 351 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 20498 times:



Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 17):
Quoting CF6PPE (Reply 3):
Since the approach and so forth took quite a while, some of the local TV stations had cameras at various positions along the approach path.



Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 17):
I always thought the news media did a piss poor job of covering this accident as it happened. As you said, they had an advance notice. Yes, Souix City is rather small, but with at least a half hour to prepare, I would think a better clip could have been captured than the infamous view through the metal fence.

My comment re: the images of the flyover and crash site debris fields didn't make a subjective conclusion about the images of the actual crash. I saw "the infamous view through the metal fence" replayed this afternoon. Although not stellar, you get the message of the carnage happening. I suppose that twenty-twenty hindsight is over rated, but I'm sure that the videographers looking through the fence were glad to get the images that they did get. After all, no one knew where the aircraft was going to attack terra firma. The fact that the crash site was within the airport fences remains remarkable..... ok..!!


User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2754 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 20439 times:



Quoting 474218 (Reply 15):
Quoting B777LRF (Reply 14):
Indeed, the second best landing following a complete hydraulic failure. Well done, but not good enough to take the price!

What was the first?

I'm guessing the FedEx A300 that had a huge chunk of wing blown off by an RPG on departure from Baghdad?



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offline413X3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 20320 times:

Was not FedEx... it was a DHL A300

User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1334 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 20145 times:

It was an EAT A300B4-200F, OODLL to be exact. Not an RPG, but a SA-7 heat-seeking missile. Aircraft was struck on the LH outboard wing, right at the fuse-point for the 3 hydraulic systems. Outboard tank vented all fuel, rather than explode (lucky!), but it also penetrated the inboard tank and ignited the fuel.

Aircraft was hit at a height of approx. 10000ft, climbing. All hydraulic systems were lost in around 30 seconds. Crew attempted a return to SDA, but had to go-around from the first approach. They flew around, sans hydraulics, with a wing on fire and in an environment where people are shooting at you, heading back to an airport with limited Fire & Rescue services, for almost 20 minutes. Eventually got the bird lined up with 33R, but at very short final was thrown slightly off course by a gust of wind. Still managed to do a main-gear first landing (albeit, they landed on the RH gear first), then drifted off the runway and into sand.

Aircraft suffered from one (1) blown main-gear tire during the landing. Further damage was done to the engines due to FOD ingestion as full reverse power was applied (it was, after all, the only means of braking they had - remember no hydraulics!). But, that was it - no smoking wreckage left behind!

So whilst the aviation world is always quick to point to UA232, who did do a fantastic job getting back to SUX, there is a world of difference between how the EAT and UA crew finished their non-hydraulic experiences!

Pictures:

Missile hit:
http://i42.tinypic.com/2vmbvah.jpg

[Edited 2009-01-18 04:19:57]

Touch-down:
http://i42.tinypic.com/2ziq4qt.jpg

Off runway:
http://i41.tinypic.com/15frk9l.jpg

Wing:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2epq45x.jpg

RH Main-gear:
http://i42.tinypic.com/sytg6x.jpg

Crew (L to R) Mario, Eric & Steve:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2e4xldw.jpg

[Edited 2009-01-18 04:23:13]

[Edited 2009-01-18 04:24:26]


From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
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